The New Civic
#41
02-21-2011 | 01:38 PM
Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,222
From: San Antonio
Did Honda forget how to do dashboards?
01-05 generation:
The Fit is the same:
compared to:
What happened? Honda used to have a very classy, almost German look. Did they hire all the interior designered who were downsized from Pontiac, with their love of swoopy, molten-lava lines?
To me, this is the benchmark in a mass-market auto interior:
01-05 generation:
The Fit is the same:
compared to:
What happened? Honda used to have a very classy, almost German look. Did they hire all the interior designered who were downsized from Pontiac, with their love of swoopy, molten-lava lines?
To me, this is the benchmark in a mass-market auto interior:
#42
02-21-2011 | 04:46 PM
Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 74
From: Bucks County, PA
I actually rather like the way the GE's dash is laid out, especially with the HVAC controls positioned close to the driver. And I do like the Civic's two-tiered layout; having driven an 8th gen Civic (wifey's) I do believe that the digital speedo positioned closer to the driver's line of sight makes quick visual speed checks much easier. It's just that in the pic there is way too much going on in that second tier, whereas in the current 8th gen model it just has readouts for speed, fuel level, and engine temp.
I agree with you that the examples you give are no doubt classy looking. However, what we find "classy," another might find, "stark and boring." Honda probably just wanted to add some visual interest to the interior; hence the swoopiness, etc.
I actually disagree with your opinion and think this dash is the best:
I kid, I kid! Honestly, that is a great example, simple, functional, and high-quality. VW/Audi really does have the nicest interiors out there. However, I'm going to go in a little different direction and go with this:
That is a thing of beauty IMO...especially that lovely flat-bottomed steering wheel.
The future:
Point is, Honda interiors are supposed to represent a model of simplicity and functionality, and the new Civic is sorely lacking there.
I agree with you that the examples you give are no doubt classy looking. However, what we find "classy," another might find, "stark and boring." Honda probably just wanted to add some visual interest to the interior; hence the swoopiness, etc.
I actually disagree with your opinion and think this dash is the best:
I kid, I kid! Honestly, that is a great example, simple, functional, and high-quality. VW/Audi really does have the nicest interiors out there. However, I'm going to go in a little different direction and go with this:
That is a thing of beauty IMO...especially that lovely flat-bottomed steering wheel.
The future:
Point is, Honda interiors are supposed to represent a model of simplicity and functionality, and the new Civic is sorely lacking there.
#43
04-07-2011 | 04:40 PM
New Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3
From: usa
The new Honda Civic is a sports car with beautiful lines and a radically different form the previous Civic.To complete the range, the new Honda Civic Type R is now open offering exhilarating performance and superb handling.
#44
04-07-2011 | 07:56 PM
Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,222
From: San Antonio
That may be the single dumbest thing I've ever seen. The Civic is not a sports car, it looks more or less the same, and there's nothing particularly exhilarating about it. "Sports cars" don't have wrong wheel drive, concessions to efficiency and practicality.
But then again, you are a bot, so you don't care.
On another note... The Civix SI is supposed to have a 200 hp 2.4 liter. It sounds like they're moving away from the Torque-less wonder style engines and putting a more gutsy powerplant in there.
But then again, you are a bot, so you don't care.
On another note... The Civix SI is supposed to have a 200 hp 2.4 liter. It sounds like they're moving away from the Torque-less wonder style engines and putting a more gutsy powerplant in there.
#45
04-21-2011 | 09:41 AM
Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 24
From: Little Hocking, OH
I'm not wild about the interior though, specifically the shift light and all the other red/blue lights that Honda deems necessary in the dash. Maybe I'm just getting old, but do we really need a light to tell us when vtec switches over?
#46
04-21-2011 | 10:16 AM
Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,222
From: San Antonio
And the SI STILL has that tacky VTEC sticker on the side. In fact, I think it got bigger.
And now a light? Seriously?
It's variable valve timing and everyone has it. Hyundai has it. Ford has it. It's NOT F***ing COOL ANYMORE. Why not put a badge on there for something that's more on the cutting edge. Why is Honda proudly boasting about technology that was Gee-whiz in 1990?
Why not "6-speed automatic," "CVT" or "Gasoline Direct Injection."
Oh, wait... yeah, that's right.
Now what really grinds me... check out this page:
2012 Honda Civic Sedan - Specifications - Official Honda Website
Manual transmission is NOT available on any EX Sedan, or the EX coupe with leather. Give it a few more years and it'll be on the plastic hubcap'ed, hand-cranked windowed DX model only.
And now a light? Seriously?
It's variable valve timing and everyone has it. Hyundai has it. Ford has it. It's NOT F***ing COOL ANYMORE. Why not put a badge on there for something that's more on the cutting edge. Why is Honda proudly boasting about technology that was Gee-whiz in 1990?
Why not "6-speed automatic," "CVT" or "Gasoline Direct Injection."
Oh, wait... yeah, that's right.
Now what really grinds me... check out this page:
2012 Honda Civic Sedan - Specifications - Official Honda Website
Manual transmission is NOT available on any EX Sedan, or the EX coupe with leather. Give it a few more years and it'll be on the plastic hubcap'ed, hand-cranked windowed DX model only.
Last edited by Occam; 04-21-2011 at 10:19 AM.
#49
04-21-2011 | 05:39 PM
Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 32
From: Canada
saw a red Si equipped with a HFP kit roll out at HCM today.......bonerzzzzzzz... once you guys see it in person it's incredible. nice little tweaks all over the place.... very subtle yet agressive....hard to explain, but be on the look out. I love the way the spoiler hangs off the back of the boot. Do these cars mean the demise for the K20 engine all together or what?
#50
04-21-2011 | 07:51 PM
Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,222
From: San Antonio
The SI (actually all the coupes) look really nice. The sedan is a bit take it/leave it, but that's what a Civic sedan is for - they're not exactly designed to get excited about. I refuse to acknowledge the SI Sedan, as it is an abomination before the FSM.
I'm a bit disappointed in the SI though... Riddle me this: They put a K24 HP engine in the Accord. The Accord coupe, without the benefit of a 6 speed, and with a few hundred more pounds, is rated at 23/32 with a manual, and sips regular gasoline. A K24 in the Civc SI has an 11 horsepower advantage, but is rated at 23/31 and needs premium (scratching head).
My tC had a MSRP of $18,995 w/ destination charge. The SI will be 22,955. There are a few extra doodads that are standard but are dealer options with the tC (bluetooth, fogs, spoiler), but overall it looks pretty similar. It has the limited-slip diff, which is pretty cool, but I guess I'd hoped after seeing Honda put a turbocharger in the RDX, and after seeing an incredible surge in the power of compact cars over the past few years, that the SI would be something really special this time around. I've always like them, and there's a little part of me that was waiting for the "See, you should have waited before shopping."
Another $1000 puts you in a MazdaSpeed3. A thousand less puts you in a >300 hp Mustang. Despite sleazing with Toyota these days, I've mostly owned Hondas, and it's a little sad to see a new SI as something that's not as exciting as it could be. The Integra/RSX Type-S had a 200 hp engine back in '02. The Prelude had it before that. The SI was supposed to be the substitute for the RSX and Prelude... What gives guys?
At least they didn't make it a "Performance Hybrid" or whatever they're calling the CR-Z.
I'm a bit disappointed in the SI though... Riddle me this: They put a K24 HP engine in the Accord. The Accord coupe, without the benefit of a 6 speed, and with a few hundred more pounds, is rated at 23/32 with a manual, and sips regular gasoline. A K24 in the Civc SI has an 11 horsepower advantage, but is rated at 23/31 and needs premium (scratching head).
My tC had a MSRP of $18,995 w/ destination charge. The SI will be 22,955. There are a few extra doodads that are standard but are dealer options with the tC (bluetooth, fogs, spoiler), but overall it looks pretty similar. It has the limited-slip diff, which is pretty cool, but I guess I'd hoped after seeing Honda put a turbocharger in the RDX, and after seeing an incredible surge in the power of compact cars over the past few years, that the SI would be something really special this time around. I've always like them, and there's a little part of me that was waiting for the "See, you should have waited before shopping."
Another $1000 puts you in a MazdaSpeed3. A thousand less puts you in a >300 hp Mustang. Despite sleazing with Toyota these days, I've mostly owned Hondas, and it's a little sad to see a new SI as something that's not as exciting as it could be. The Integra/RSX Type-S had a 200 hp engine back in '02. The Prelude had it before that. The SI was supposed to be the substitute for the RSX and Prelude... What gives guys?
At least they didn't make it a "Performance Hybrid" or whatever they're calling the CR-Z.
#52
04-21-2011 | 08:48 PM
Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,222
From: San Antonio
"Honda Civic EX Coupe - Road Test
Honda's new seventh-generation Civic gets closer to its real customers, and perhaps a step away from the die-hard sports-compact enthusiasts."
"Brake-pedal feel is also good in the new Civic, enabling 70-mph panic stops in just 186 feet, rear drum brakes notwithstanding. As usual in Hondas, all the controls work together in pleasing harmony, yet the Civic still feels, at first, as if its primary mission is to convey young Jennifer to work and play in complete comfort."
"If the sense of mechanical purity usually manifested by Hondas seems somewhat diluted in this new Civic family, the new levels of refinement have compensated handsomely. And whether you like it or not, that is the way of the future."
"Cost pressures seem to be forcing Honda to back away from some of its engineering high ground; the retreat from a proper control-arm front suspension is the latest example. But as long as the engines keep making these sweet sounds, accepting the compromises is a lot easier.
All from the review of the then-new 2001 Civic.
It hasn't been a tuner car for quite some time, and honestly, I domething they ever made a more enjoyable Civic than the 96-00 models. Last of the Civics with real Honda suspension.
Last edited by Occam; 04-21-2011 at 09:00 PM.
#53
04-22-2011 | 03:04 AM
i would have been on your side occam, yesterday, but today at work i watched the training video for sales, and parts people to watch so we know the advantages over the competition, this re vamp is better than it appears, i agree that Honda has really removed themselves from the tuner crowd, given the moves they have made in recent years, but Honda sells cars for themselves, and wants them on the road for 20+ years, if they made a real sports car they would kill the competition!!! but just like all the other manufacturers, the car would die a sorry death, and Honda doesn't want ANY bad publicity!! period. so they will make cars for the masses, the old people, the new driver in the fam, the college kid that doesn't want to mess around with spoilers, and mugen mats - the kind of people that just get in a car and drive it everywhere, THEN ITS UP TO US TO MAKE OURS PERSONAL AND UNIQUE - AT LEAST THATS WHAT I DO WITH EVERY SINGLE ONE I BUY - EVERY SINGLE ONE, and it makes me happy that no one can walk into the dealer and just buy an exact replica of my car, think about it i feel sad when i see five Subaru's all cruising down the street and they all bought the same exact car because subi makes it like that, i think it's cool as hell that in the year + I've had my fit NOT ONE OTHER STORM SILVER FIT HAS DRIVEN INTO OUR DEALERSHIP, that people would mistake as mine (even with the stock wheels on it)
give the 2012 civic time it too will grow on most of us, i don't like everything honda touches, but i realize every time i get in my 22yo crx that all the shit i bolted to it and all the crap i have hung on it over the 15 years i have owned it was for nothing, as now it is damn close to stock, but with a bad ass 18yo VTEC (sohc) w/ turbo engine that i built in it, and i have yet to see another one just like mine!
just my .02
peace & sticky grease - honda for life!
give the 2012 civic time it too will grow on most of us, i don't like everything honda touches, but i realize every time i get in my 22yo crx that all the shit i bolted to it and all the crap i have hung on it over the 15 years i have owned it was for nothing, as now it is damn close to stock, but with a bad ass 18yo VTEC (sohc) w/ turbo engine that i built in it, and i have yet to see another one just like mine!
just my .02
peace & sticky grease - honda for life!
#54
04-22-2011 | 01:43 PM
Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,222
From: San Antonio
@vtecfit1:
What are some of these advantages? All cars have some areas where they excel and some areas where they are eclipsed, and it all comes down to whether they, on the whole, are the best value when considered against a buyer's personal preferences and priorities. Some, such as styling and interior design are very subjective, while others suck as crash test ratings and fuel economy are less so. I notice the Civic is still quite light, surprisingly so (I.e. Not much heavier than a Fit). Have you heard if they were able to reclaim their 5-star rating in the crash testing? With the more stringent standards, they got knocked down to a 3 in the previous model.
Hav you sat in a 2012? The '06-11 felt a bit tight in the front legroom, and the odd placement of the E-brake was a showstopper for me (and my right leg!). Has this been improved?
Is the engine in the DX-EX trims a carryover from last year?
What are some of these advantages? All cars have some areas where they excel and some areas where they are eclipsed, and it all comes down to whether they, on the whole, are the best value when considered against a buyer's personal preferences and priorities. Some, such as styling and interior design are very subjective, while others suck as crash test ratings and fuel economy are less so. I notice the Civic is still quite light, surprisingly so (I.e. Not much heavier than a Fit). Have you heard if they were able to reclaim their 5-star rating in the crash testing? With the more stringent standards, they got knocked down to a 3 in the previous model.
Hav you sat in a 2012? The '06-11 felt a bit tight in the front legroom, and the odd placement of the E-brake was a showstopper for me (and my right leg!). Has this been improved?
Is the engine in the DX-EX trims a carryover from last year?
#56
04-22-2011 | 06:28 PM
Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,222
From: San Antonio
Ok.. Looking at the EPA estimates, I'm a bit more impressed in general:
Manual: 28 city, 36 highway.
Auto: 28 city, 39 highway.
95 cu ft of passenger volume.
Curb weight ranges from 2594 (MT DX) to 2795 (AT EX-L Auto)
I see this cannibalizing Fit sales. Until now, you could get a fairly newly remodeled Fit or a 2006 generation Civic that offers more power but lower mileage. Now this new Civic has arrived, and still sells at cheap prices (most models are still in the $15-20k range)
Manual: 28 city, 36 highway.
Auto: 28 city, 39 highway.
95 cu ft of passenger volume.
Curb weight ranges from 2594 (MT DX) to 2795 (AT EX-L Auto)
I see this cannibalizing Fit sales. Until now, you could get a fairly newly remodeled Fit or a 2006 generation Civic that offers more power but lower mileage. Now this new Civic has arrived, and still sells at cheap prices (most models are still in the $15-20k range)
#57
04-23-2011 | 09:18 PM
Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,222
From: San Antonio
Power/weight ratios, just for fun:
SI: *2877 lbs /201 hp =14.31*
Ex coupe: *2703 lbs/ 140 hp = 19.31*lbs/hp.*
For reference:*
Fit Sport: 2520/118=21.35
Other cars (MT only)
Mustang V6: 3453/305=11.26
Mazdaspeed3 3284/263= 12.49
mini Cooper S: 2668/181=14.74
Nissan juke: 2912/188=15.49
VW GTI: 3034/200=15.70
Kia Forte Koup SX:*2844/173=16..44
Mustang V6 (pre-11): 3401/210=16.19
Scion tC: 3080/180 = 17.00
mazda3s: 3064/167=18.35
Mini Cooper: 2535/121=20.95
SI: *2877 lbs /201 hp =14.31*
Ex coupe: *2703 lbs/ 140 hp = 19.31*lbs/hp.*
For reference:*
Fit Sport: 2520/118=21.35
Other cars (MT only)
Mustang V6: 3453/305=11.26
Mazdaspeed3 3284/263= 12.49
mini Cooper S: 2668/181=14.74
Nissan juke: 2912/188=15.49
VW GTI: 3034/200=15.70
Kia Forte Koup SX:*2844/173=16..44
Mustang V6 (pre-11): 3401/210=16.19
Scion tC: 3080/180 = 17.00
mazda3s: 3064/167=18.35
Mini Cooper: 2535/121=20.95
#58
04-24-2011 | 01:17 AM
2012 Honda Civic Range Revealed | Motorward
if that is really what they look like now. to me it looks like an end product of a kia forte having sex with a toyota corolla.
if that is really what they look like now. to me it looks like an end product of a kia forte having sex with a toyota corolla.
#59
10-31-2011 | 03:33 PM
Honda moving up mid-cycle refresh of Civic amidst criticism
Automotive News reports that Honda is itching to release a mid-cycle refresh for the company's 2012 Civic. In response to a harsh criticism from reviewers and the model's first failure to earn a coveted Recommended rating from Consumer Reports in recent memory, the automaker has apparently decided to pull ahead the model's refresh to 2013 instead of 2014. The report quotes John Mendel, American Honda Executive Vice President, as saying that his company is "appropriately energized" by feedback from critics and customers alike. At the same time, the executive stressed that he wasn't sure exactly how much the manufacturer could do or how quickly it could be accomplished.
Critics have specifically found issue with the vehicle's overly soft handling and muddled, plastic-laden dash design, especially as competition in the segment has matured and grown even more compelling. While the 2012 Honda Civic initially saw a spike in consumer interest, shoppers may have trickled off; something that analysts say is highly unusual for any Honda model, let alone this onetime leader of the compact segment.
What will the refresh bring? We can only imagine that Honda will work to cure the ails that Consumer Reports has specifically called out by improving the interior and rolling in additional content.
Automotive News reports that Honda is itching to release a mid-cycle refresh for the company's 2012 Civic. In response to a harsh criticism from reviewers and the model's first failure to earn a coveted Recommended rating from Consumer Reports in recent memory, the automaker has apparently decided to pull ahead the model's refresh to 2013 instead of 2014. The report quotes John Mendel, American Honda Executive Vice President, as saying that his company is "appropriately energized" by feedback from critics and customers alike. At the same time, the executive stressed that he wasn't sure exactly how much the manufacturer could do or how quickly it could be accomplished.
Critics have specifically found issue with the vehicle's overly soft handling and muddled, plastic-laden dash design, especially as competition in the segment has matured and grown even more compelling. While the 2012 Honda Civic initially saw a spike in consumer interest, shoppers may have trickled off; something that analysts say is highly unusual for any Honda model, let alone this onetime leader of the compact segment.
What will the refresh bring? We can only imagine that Honda will work to cure the ails that Consumer Reports has specifically called out by improving the interior and rolling in additional content.
