Failed to make the grade with Consumer Reports as a "recommended" vehicle:

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Honda's new hybrid-only Insight, touted as a low-cost competitor to the Toyota Prius was dealt a major blow Monday after it failed to get a thumbs up from the influential magazine Consumer Reports.
"The Insight is the most disappointing Honda Consumer Reports has tested in a long time," said David Champion, director of the magazine's auto test center.
The magazine roundly pans Honda's (HMC) new hybrid car in its upcoming August issue, criticizing its ride quality, handling, interior noise, acceleration, and rear-seat access.
Champion called the car "noisy and stiff-riding," in a statement released by the magazine.
Out of 22 currently available hatchbacks and small wagons the magazine has rated, the Insight ranks 21st.


full article here:
Consumer Reports knocks Honda's new hybrid - Jun. 29, 2009

 

Sad to hear, my girlfriend really wants one so I hope they're not as bad as that. Haven't had a chance to test drive one yet.

 

Everything I have seen about the Insight says it isn't good in any department, basically, don't buy the car unless you commute only, and can't afford a pricier Prius. I wish they had the Fit Hybrid already. Would like some really good mileage/range with more utility. Consumer Reports even said, just buy a fit. It will take 12 years to get the payoff in fuel savings.

 

I posted about the Fit Hybrid over here:
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/gene...tml#post689302

Here's what I think happened. First Honda did the original Insight. And not enough people bought it.
Honda Insight Review - Edmunds.com

Yeah, the fuel economy was outstanding. But it was like the CRX in styling. That meant 2 seats, no cargo space, low to the ground, incredibly hard to get in and out of.

Smart did a better job as far as making the space there is in a tiny city car to be accessible. That darned hatch on the CRX had a high lift-over and was awkward. It wasn't very usable space either. I could have had my mum's old one, but it was too difficult for me, in my disabled condition with the back pain. Fall in, crawl out of the seats. LOL! Too much bending and twisting to access what little space there was.

Look at the back end of our cars, the Fit. Easy access back space. Smart and Mini Clubman have different doors, but they are easy to access too. And it's easy to get in and out of the Fit. The Smart looks easy too. The Mini is a bit lower down it seems, might be more difficult.

So Honda ditched the old Insight. Probably thinking that a hybrid just doesn't sell. But they were wrong. It wasn't that the hybrid wouldn't sell, it's that the body style and basic needs were not in tune with what people need.

Honda certainly did get in tune when they came out with the Fit. It's an excellent car.

Meanwhile, Toyota racked up sales with their Prius.

Honda still didn't get it. They figured if they virtually copied the Prius design, and made a hybrid, that it would sell. But they didn't pay attention. The mpg is much better on the Prius.

Honda kind of ditched what it knows in order to copy someone else. Honda does small cars really well. There are STILL Honda 600's on the road and they have a cult status amongst collectors:
Honda600source

A car so small it fit in the back of a pickup:
600 letters

60 mpg highway, 40 city. Sure, it would be way underpowered for you guys, until you put some high-powered motorcycle engine as was done with a Smart car:
YouTube - Ferrari vs. Smart Car, An Ass Whipping

Meanwhile, a dinky transport with the mpg listed above would be the awesome city car. And it actually says it seats four (if the people in the back don't mind sucking on their own kneecaps).

Honda does small good. They always have. They could create the world's most fuel efficient car. I know they could. In that tasty city car category. Hybrid. Solar battery charger. All that neat stuff.

And at an unbelievable price. I told them when I had signed up for their hybrid newsletter (before the Insight was shown) that if the car didn't get 60-80 mpg and wasn't really small, they needed bother. And the car should be around 10K to buy.

We HAVE hybrid sedans. And we HAVE one Prius already. Toyota makes it. Not Honda.

Honda! Pay attention. Here's your new slogan:

"We do small good"

Hey, it's no worse than "The Fit is Go"

And get back to doing small good.

 

We do small well

haha but in all seriousness...i agree with almost 100% of this post

 

It's too much like "we do chicken right" isn't it? LOL!

I want a slogan that at least makes some sort of sense.

Honda exec: (in all seriousness) "So tell us what kind of slogan you have come up with for our automobile."
Slogan creator: (deadpan delivery) "The Fit is Go"
Honda exec: (busts up laughing) "What the heck does 'The Fit is Go' mean?"
Slogan creator: (deadpan delivery) "We don't know, sir, but our market research shows people like things that make no sense."

I think "we do small good" is catchy. "We do small well" doesn't have the zing. Besides, it would create havoc amongst those who teach language, screaming about how it's not proper.

So then the advertisement could be an argument ... "good" "well" "good" "well", except that's a lot like "tastes great" "less filling" "tastes great" "less filling".

How about this. The advertisement will just have the mpg in large, bold print. And underneath it:
(We don't need a catchy slogan)

Er, or is that too much like badges that stink?

 

My latest issue of Road and Track..or was it Car and Driver..whatever, ranked the Insight better than the Prius in a head to head mach up. However, it really seems that the car is looked down on. One of the major cons the magazine cited was that the handling of the Insight was "Thrashy when thrashed" and that the road noise is really bad. I've also heard a few complaints that the transmission is very lousy. Hopefully Honda can improve the car with some minor tweeks.

 

Has Honda ever made a CVT anyone liked?

 

I was really hoping the Insight would do good but it is funny to go by the local Honda dealership and see the Honda Fit on the front line and the Insight in the side area behind the Civics.

Cat :x

 

just increase the per barrel price and CR will be raving about the insight's fuel economy.

it's rather pretty stupid. CR and cars is like me with sewing machine... no idea.

 

Car and driver, it is the one with the muscle cars on the cover. there was a chevy metro, as the control.

 

I checked out the sales numbers on Vanct's posting here:
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/gene...009-sales.html

The Insight sold more last month, but the Civic is way ahead for yearly sales with it's hybrid. And it's easy to see why. Civic hybrid has better mpg, more options people often need, like cruise control. Helpful things like map lights. Rear disk brakes. More speakers. Front and rear stabilizer bars. And even though the Civic hybrid has better mpg, it doesn't have less horsepower, it has more.

It's about $2,000 more than the Insight. About the same difference between the Base Fit and the Sport Fit, and many folks here had no problem making the jump from one to the other. I don't think a lot of people even considered the Base Fit.

I think some of the sales of the Insight are due to hype and it being a new model. But I don't think that vehicle has staying power.

Take a look at the American car makers. One of their biggest problems has been holding on to models that are not that great. When they have other models in their lines that are better. They shouldn't hold on to stuff that isn't working out.

And neither should Honda. Seems like a no-brainer. And all they had to do in the hybrid market was drop a hybrid engine in the Fit. Make it a line like Civics and Accords. Because the Fit works.

 

In just about every segment, I'd take a Honda (or Nissan or Mazda) over a Toyota.
But if my wife wanted to add a Hybrid to the fleet, it would be 2010 Prius all the way. Combined gas/electric power, like 175HP and 250ish torque. Solar roof, they spent more time in the wind tunnel. No stone unturned basically
Toyota is king in this segment from my standpoint.

 

i miss the old insight.

 

I do agree with your insights (pardon the pun).

I can't back this up with any numbers, but I remember reading that the problem with Honda's hybrid strategy before was there was too little differentiation between their hybrids and their normal cars. Not enough set apart the, say, Civic Hybrid from the run-of-the-mill Civic, and the same went for the Accord.

Apparently people wanted to "shout" to the world that they drive a hybrid, and the Civic and Accord Hybrids weren't doing enough in that direction. That's supposedly why people bought Priuses. Sure it was a flawed car but it screamed "Hey lookie here I'm driving a hybrid!"

With this in mind...perhaps Honda doesn't want to go back to their old strategy of spinning off a hybrid from one of their mainstream models, no matter how successful. A GE Fit Hybrid has been announced though, so what I've said up to this point may as well be moot.

Then again Honda also decided to test the waters again with the 2nd-gen Insight. This time they're pitching it as a Prius clone for less money outlay. Buyers could get themselves screaming "Hey I'm driving a hybrid!" for less. That said, the GE Fit is currently flying the small-car flag proudly for our Tochigi-based automaker, and Car and Driver seems to think it's the car the Insight should've been...

Just some food for thought on the issue :)

 

I think you're right about the "Hey I'm driving a hybrid" or maybe even "Hey! Look at me! I'm driving a HYBRID!". The mentality might vary, between people, sort of like recycling or buying and using reusable grocery bags. Some folks only do the reusable grocery bags on Earth Day, making a big production of it. "It's EARTH day, I'm reusing a BAG". While others reuse bags and recycle all the time. The latter doesn't need a "special" day or vehicle that screams HYBRID.

Check this article:

Honda’s hybrid pricing gambit: the sub-$20,000 Insight

March 11th, 2009 — honda, hybrid vehicle
Honda’s much-anticipated Prius fighter may double as a recession fighter.


The Japanese automaker said today that when the 2010 Honda Insight hybrid hits dealer lots in two weeks, it will carry a base price of $19,800. That puts an end to months of speculation over just how much less expensive the new Honda would be than the Toyota Prius, currently the top-selling hybrid in the U.S.


At under twenty grand, the Insight will be the least expensive new hybrid available in the country; even the more feature-laden EX version of the Insight, which includes alloy wheels and paddle shifters, will be under the Prius’ $22,000 starting sticker. By pricing it so low — almost $4,000 less than its own Civic hybrid — yet delivering a car that looks and behaves remarkably similar to the current Prius, Honda is making a risky bet that cost-conscious consumers will be lured to choose its hybrids over non-hybrid alternatives. Meanwhile, with a new far more fuel-efficient 2010 Prius set to hit showrooms in June, the Insight could lose out on buyers who care more about green (as in ecology) than green (as in dough).


Honda apparently has its eyes trained on a broader swath of customers. The Insight, said Dick Colliver, executive vice president for Honda’s U.S. sales arm, “brings the cost of entry for hybrid technology within closer reach of an entirely new car-shopping audience.” The automaker hopes people who otherwise wouldn’t have considered a hybrid will choose the Insight because it’s cheaper to buy and operate than comparable vehicles.


The Insight first went on sale in Japan last month, where it sells for 1.89 million yen ($19,260). So far, 18,000 have been ordered, according to Honda, and 4,906 were sold and registered in February, making it the top-selling hybrid in Japan for the month. The company has said it hopes to sell 200,000 of the vehicles globally each year, with about 90,000 selling in the U.S. during the first 12 months of sales. By comparison, Toyota sold 241,405 of the Prius models in the U.S. last year.


The down economy could put a dent in Honda’s sales plans, however. The value of used hybrids, an important indicator of demand for the vehicles, has slumped considerably as consumers turn to cheaper options. According to research firm Kelley Blue Book, used hybrid prices are down about 25% since last summer, more than any other category of vehicle, and fell 2.5% in February alone.


And while the Insight measures up pretty well against the Prius and even more expensive hybrids on cost, it still is quite a bit higher than fairly efficient non-hybrid competitors such as the Toyota Yaris ($12,205 starting price) and Nissan Versa ($9,990).


That’s a particularly sensitive point considering the relatively low price of gasoline of late. “Demand for fuel efficient vehicles has dropped significantly as more and more consumers base their purchase decision on vehicle transaction price as opposed to fuel economy,” said Juan Flores, director of vehicle valuation at Kelley Blue Book.


When gas is costly, hybrids can more easily justify their cost differential in gas savings. But with the national average for a gallon of go juice at $1.94 (down from over $4 last summer), that savings payoff take a lot longer.


The Nissan Versa, for example, gets 27 mpg in city driving and 33 mpg on the highway, and it costs $9,810 less than the Insight. At current gas price levels, according to one of the niftiest of the many nifty hybrid cost calculators available online, the Honda Insight, which gets 40 mpg city and 43 highway, would save drivers about $315 a year compared to the Versa based on normal driving. That means it will pay for itself in a mere 31 years, or about three times the expected life of the vehicle.


Consumers clearly don’t base all their car-buying decisions on price alone. If they did, it would be Kia, not Toyota, atop the global sales heap, and BMW and Mercedes-Benz wouldn’t have a leg to stand on.


Still, by framing the Insight’s marketing around rational price concerns rather than emotional hot buttons like saving the planet — while at the same time not making the vehicle as efficient as the 2009 Prius (48 city/45 highway/46 combined), much less the upcoming 2010 Prius (Toyota said it will get 50 mpg combined) — Honda seems to be locking its new vehicle into a mathematical computation it can never win.

Source:
Honda’s hybrid pricing gambit: the sub-$20,000 Insight — AUTOinCAR

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I'll say it again. They blew it with this Insight too. LOL!

Honda brings back old nameplates, that bear no resemblance to the original, like they did here:
Honda Z - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why didn't they continue on with the original...did you catch this?:

The Z600 features an air-cooled, 354 cc 2 cylinder engine with a 4 or 5 speed transmission driving the front wheels. Exported cars carried a 598 cc engine, which was rated at 36 hp (26 kW). The 354 cc version was available in Australia. One car magazine recording 136 mpg-imp (2.08 L/100 km; 113 mpg-US) when they didn't exceed 30 mph (48 km/h),[1] which came at almost the perfect time with a gasoline shortage looming.
-------

THAT is a city car. Makes the Smart look stupid. Can you imagine:
" Something must be wrong with my car, I'm only getting 90 mpg "

LOL.

A good, cheap, tiny car that gets that kind of mileage is needed. That's one thing. And they already have all the plans for the old one:
http://my.reset.jp/~inu/ProductsDataBase/Products/HONDA/HONDA_Z/HONDA_Z.htm

A good, small, far less expensive than the Prius, hybrid is needed. That's another thing.

 

whoa. there is a lot of speculation being thrown around in this thread.


(and as a side note the new prius does NOT have 175hp, it only has about 130-140 if i'm not mistaken.)


i personally do think that honda 'gets' the whole hybrid thing. the insight seats 4, and is relatively cheap.


the bottom line is that its silly to say things like 'well...a versa or yaris or fit is cheaper!' ok fine...you want to play that note, then why pony up the extra dough for a slower, worse handling civic hybrid that does not get gargantuan amounts of mpg over the regular civic?

speaking of the civic....you can get one of those with leather and no nav for the same price as a insight with better mileage and NAVIGATION. the insight compares very well to the civic as far as price goes, and puts a greater emphasis on thrifty driving . sounds like a good plan to me. i have not heard legions of people complaining of how 'unaffordable' the civic is. personally i'll take an 18k insight and the killer mileage that goes with it over a stripper dx civic anyday.


and ENOUGH with the 'insight looks like the prius!' stuff. remember what everyone said when the 2nd gen prius came out? "it looks like a 4 door insight'. Honda copied HONDA. simple as that.

sure the current gen prius is more upscale with its fancy shmantzy electronic systems, but thats not honda's approach to hybridness: the simpler the better according to honda. and the current gen insight is the natural successor to the original 2 door.

this consumer reports review is the only real negative review on the insight. edmunds, c/d, motortrend, they have all praised it. (ttac's has two reviews, one good one negative.)

but its hard to fault the insight when it blows the 2nd gen prius out of the water with regards to driving dynamics, and it owns the current gen on price. and lets face it: while neither interior is audi-esque in quality...i'll gladly pay 18-22k for the insights interior and accept its flaws than lay down over 24k for a prius with its god awulf new-found toyota cheapness.


and you can play the mpg rating game all you want: in the same way fit drivers have been able to exceed mpa ratings the insight has done the same, closing the gap between it and the prius' rating. the last few tests done by edmunds and car and driver showed the the insight was very close to the average mpg of the prius. so thats a moot point.

and i sure as hell will take the insights video game-get-the-best-mileage-you-can! gauge readouts over the SUPER complicated and COMPLETELY un-ergonomic approach the prius has taken. i dont see how ANYONE can fault the civic/insight dash with the atrocious out-of-line-of-sight approach toyota has taken.

 

taffetawhite: with regards to the civic hyrid:

i seriously doubt that even 20% of hybrid drivers car about rear stabilizers and what they do.

while it does have slightly more hp than the insight (read 12) it also weighs over 150 lbs more and is about 2 seconds slower to 60mph than the insight. i'm sorry, but i'll take a zero to 60 time that is comprabable to my fit, but nearly 13 seconds? NO thanks.

and the mpg advantage it has is nominal at best. its like 2mpg on the highway no? no biggie.

not to mention that the civic hybrid does NOT have rear discs. only civic ex's and si's do.

you said honda didnt 'get it' by offering the proper bodystyle...i think they got it. the insight is a hatch, just like our beloved fit, whereas the civic hybrid has less usable trunk space than the regular civic and cant even fold the rear seats down.

at least it has more rear head room.

 

eldaino:
The "Prius clone" sentiments can't be helped sadly in the case of the gen2 Insight. That's what being first in the minds of the consumer nets you (not necessarily being first in the market). Yeah, I know the gen1 Insight predated the popular gen2 Prius but somehow it just didn't capture the general public's imagination as well as the Toyota did. We enthusiasts would know about the Insight but the regular Juan dela Cruz here in Manila wouldn't even know of it.

Regarding the "Well a Yaris/Versa/Fit is cheaper" note...I suggest you look at the final paragraph on the Car and Driver comparison test. While they awarded the Insight the win because it at least had a semblance of driving dynamics, they still pretty much mooted the whole hybrid game because conventional small cars still deliver much more (dynamics, space, etc) at not much more MPG penalty and definitely at lower MSRP.

Hybrids and the Yaris/Fit/Versa/whathaveyou are an apples-to-oranges comparison maybe...but some people sadly just don't look beyond the sticker price :( Nor are they as willing to research new cars' strengths and weaknesses as much as we do :( Hence the mythical status of hybrids reigns, regardless of how well short they actually live up to the lofty claims of being eco-friendly and whatnot.

Not trying to refute anything or speculate any further. That's just what I've observed.

 

I used the Comparitor at Edmunds for the Insight and the Civic hybrid, so if I got my info wrong, I apologize. I was going on their charts. Same with gas mileage, I used Fuel Economy. gov for that.

I do get carried away when I'm enthusiastic, and I also get very frustrated with the auto makers.

I'm in a different position that a lot of the people here. I'm older and I'm disabled. I don't work. Their (the auto makers) idea of affordable is not my idea of affordable. Their idea of good mpg is not my idea of good mpg.

Affordable and good mpg are relative...to one's income. Right? And also has to do with age and disability/ability...younger folks have more time, more possibilities to earn that income if they are healthy and able-bodied.

Even though it had many flaws, the Yugo sold:

Auto critics tended to laugh at the Yugo, and branded it more of a toy than a car. They also pointed out a series of flaws, and as it happens many of the flaws were valid. Many owners complained of mechanical problems including premature engine failure, bad brakes, poor shifter and transmission, and faulty electrical systems, and terrible dealer service. The insurance industry faulted the cars crash worthiness, which didn't help matters.
http://www.inet.hr/~bpauric/epov.htm
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In total 141,511 cars were sold in the US from 1985 to 1991, with the most American units sold in a year peaking at 48,500 in 1987. 1991 sales were only 3,981 cars.[1] The Zastava Koral was sold with an updated design, priced at about 350,000 dinar (3,500 euro, 4,300 USD), until 11 November 2008, when production stopped with a final number of 794,428 cars.
Zastava Koral - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Why would people do this:
As soon as it was announced that the Yugo would go on sale, people stormed the 90 Yugo dealerships, and put down deposits on the cars. They did this before even seeing the cars, much less driving them. By the time 1500 cars had arrived dealers had orders for 5 times that amount.
http://www.inet.hr/~bpauric/epov.htm
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Not because it was reliable or dependable or had an excellent history...but because it was cheap. Affordable. Just about anyone could afford to buy a $4,000 car. And it would be a NEW car. MPG wasn't outstanding, but it wasn't bad either:
Gas Mileage of 1989 Vehicles by Yugo

Maybe they were the equivalent of the dollar stores. LOL! Cheap, yet useful sometimes.

We have plenty of $20,000 cars available. We have lots of hybrids. Where's the "miracle car"? Where's the totally affordable car? Where's the car that gets 80 mpg?

The car that a high school student could buy, by working hard during summer and part time the rest of the year, and have that car paid off.

The car that seniors on strict budgets could buy and use to get around town.

The car that would become THE commuter car or the around town/city car to run errands in.

The car that could be everyone's second car if they needed two cars.

I think of that suburban sprawl I grew up in, where it was 15 miles to get to any freeway, LOL! Most all driving took place on residential streets and the main thoroughfares chock full o' traffic signals.

There wasn't anywhere to DRIVE 60 mph locally. Zero to 60 times didn't matter. And there are very few places where 0-60 times matter, legally. One is the Treasure Island on-ramp on the Bay Bridge. From a dead stop, one is supposed to suddenly merge with morons driving too fast on the bridge. Even the zippiest car can have problems doing that.

Yes, Honda does a much better job at creating cars than the American auto makers. Cars that are more reliable, for instance. But they are also doing what the American car makers have been doing, that led to their downfall.

"Good enough"

It's good enough if some people will buy it. It's good enough to stay with an old platform or to stick with things that people have bought in the past. It's good enough to stay in a particular market segment.

Where's the innovation? I don't mean ridiculous artist renderings of concept cars that are completely unrealistic.

Well, while Honda fiddles while Rome burns, other people ARE innovating:
Tata 'NANO' - The People's Car from Tata Motors

Features include doors, a steering wheel and round wheels.

According to Tata Group's Chairman Ratan Tata, the Nano is a 33 PS (33 hp/24 kW) car with a 623 cc rear engine and rear wheel drive, and has a fuel economy of 4.55 L/100 km (21.97 km/L, 51.7 mpg (US), 62 mpg (UK)) under city road conditions, and 3.85 L/100 km on highways ( 25.974 km/L, 61.1 mpg (US), 73.3 mpg (UK)).

Tata Nano - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia