Modified 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupes
#62
03-21-2009, 02:00 AM
InsideLine retests V6 Genesis Coupe after lackluster numbers
A couple weeks ago we ran a full test on the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe V6 Track. It ran respectable numbers, but not the kind of times we expected from a 300+ horsepower, rear-wheel drive coupe of its size.
Hyundai was disappointed too. So they went through the car following our track session looking for answers. What Hyundai's engineers found was a rear wheel alignment that was off spec and worn front tires paired with new rears.
Another problem was the car's ECU. It was programmed for damage control, not 0-to-60mph runs, so it was cutting power when it was needed most. We complained about this system in the test article and were sure the car would accelerate quicker if the damage control system was backed off a bit.
Hyundai agreed and made a running change to the ECU that keeps it from cutting in during fast shifts. Hyundai is fast at work reflashing all the cars now at dealers and at the port (If you're one of the few that has already bought a Genesis Coupe, call your dealer and they'll reflash your car for free). They also offered to mount some new tires and made sure they were pointed straight too.
Then they asked if we wouldn't mind running the car again. We said yes. Did it help?
Comparison Test: 2010 Genesis Coupe V6 Track vs. 2009 Infiniti G37 Coupe
Acceleration
Genesis Coupe 3.8L V6 Track (2/10/09)
0-30 (sec.): 2.4
0-45 (sec.): 4.3
0-60 (sec.): 6.4
0-75 (sec.): 9.0
1/4 mile (sec @ mph): 14.5@97.9
0-60 (sec.): (w/rollout) 6.1
Genesis Coupe 3.8L V6 Track (3/10/09)
0-30 (sec.): 2.2
0-45 (sec.): 3.9
0-60 (sec.): 5.9
0-75 (sec.): 8.4
1/4 mile (sec @ mph): 14.1@99.3
0-60 (sec.): (w/rollout) 5.7
Infiniti G37S 3.7L V6 (2/10/09)
0-30 (sec.): 2.4
0-45 (sec.): 3.9
0-60 (sec.): 5.7
0-75 (sec.): 8.2
1/4 mile (sec @ mph): 13.9@101.4
0-60 (sec.): (w/rollout) 5.4
Braking
60mph-0 (ft.):
111ft - GenCoupe (2/10/09)
111ft - GenCoupe (3/10/09)
110ft - G37S Coupe (2/10/09)
30mph-0 (ft.):
28ft - GenCoupe (2/10/09)
27ft - GenCoupe (3/10/09)
28ft - G37S Coupe (2/10/09)
Handling
Slalom (mph):
68.2mph - GenCoupe (2/10/09)
69.0mph - GenCoupe (3/10/09)
69.7mph - G37S Coupe (2/10/09)
Skidpad(g):
.88g GenCoupe (2/10/09)
.87g GenCoupe (3/10/09)
.85g G37S Coupe (2/10/09)
A couple weeks ago we ran a full test on the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe V6 Track. It ran respectable numbers, but not the kind of times we expected from a 300+ horsepower, rear-wheel drive coupe of its size.
Hyundai was disappointed too. So they went through the car following our track session looking for answers. What Hyundai's engineers found was a rear wheel alignment that was off spec and worn front tires paired with new rears.
Another problem was the car's ECU. It was programmed for damage control, not 0-to-60mph runs, so it was cutting power when it was needed most. We complained about this system in the test article and were sure the car would accelerate quicker if the damage control system was backed off a bit.
Hyundai agreed and made a running change to the ECU that keeps it from cutting in during fast shifts. Hyundai is fast at work reflashing all the cars now at dealers and at the port (If you're one of the few that has already bought a Genesis Coupe, call your dealer and they'll reflash your car for free). They also offered to mount some new tires and made sure they were pointed straight too.
Then they asked if we wouldn't mind running the car again. We said yes. Did it help?
Comparison Test: 2010 Genesis Coupe V6 Track vs. 2009 Infiniti G37 Coupe
Acceleration
Genesis Coupe 3.8L V6 Track (2/10/09)
0-30 (sec.): 2.4
0-45 (sec.): 4.3
0-60 (sec.): 6.4
0-75 (sec.): 9.0
1/4 mile (sec @ mph): 14.5@97.9
0-60 (sec.): (w/rollout) 6.1
Genesis Coupe 3.8L V6 Track (3/10/09)
0-30 (sec.): 2.2
0-45 (sec.): 3.9
0-60 (sec.): 5.9
0-75 (sec.): 8.4
1/4 mile (sec @ mph): 14.1@99.3
0-60 (sec.): (w/rollout) 5.7
Infiniti G37S 3.7L V6 (2/10/09)
0-30 (sec.): 2.4
0-45 (sec.): 3.9
0-60 (sec.): 5.7
0-75 (sec.): 8.2
1/4 mile (sec @ mph): 13.9@101.4
0-60 (sec.): (w/rollout) 5.4
Braking
60mph-0 (ft.):
111ft - GenCoupe (2/10/09)
111ft - GenCoupe (3/10/09)
110ft - G37S Coupe (2/10/09)
30mph-0 (ft.):
28ft - GenCoupe (2/10/09)
27ft - GenCoupe (3/10/09)
28ft - G37S Coupe (2/10/09)
Handling
Slalom (mph):
68.2mph - GenCoupe (2/10/09)
69.0mph - GenCoupe (3/10/09)
69.7mph - G37S Coupe (2/10/09)
Skidpad(g):
.88g GenCoupe (2/10/09)
.87g GenCoupe (3/10/09)
.85g G37S Coupe (2/10/09)
#63
03-21-2009, 02:37 AM
Burgeoning Beauty vs. Proven Performer
By Josh Jacquot, Senior Road Test Editor
Check out the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 vs. 2009 Infiniti G37 Coupe Dyno Test
The list of six-cylinder sport coupes that actually matter is a short one. Let's face it, until now it's been BMW 335i and Infiniti G37. And then, about two weeks ago, Hyundai dropped a bomb. A big one.
It's called the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe.
And all of a sudden, the Korean carmaker — whose previous attempts at "sporty" included machines like the unenviable Scoupe and the forgettable first-generation Tiburon — has thrust itself into the spotlight with a car that at once looks good and has the specs to do the deed. Three hundred horsepower. Six-speed manual transmission. Rear-wheel drive. Limited-slip differential. So put that in your Scoupe pipe and smoke it. Here comes a real car.
Sounds remarkably like the territory of the 2009 Infiniti G37, doesn't it? And it is. In every way except price. So there's your comparison test.
It'll Run Ya
If you've read our full test of the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8, then you know it's a solid machine with ample power, gorgeous styling and a low price. A really low price.
For $29,500 you can have yours with a 3.8-liter V6 and the Track package, which adds a stiffer suspension, a Torsen limited-slip differential, Brembo brakes and 19-inch wheels. A six-speed manual transmission is standard equipment and our test car has one. Complete with its floor mats, iPod connector and destination fee, it costs $30,375. This number, by the way, is $6,625 less than the base price of the Infiniti G37.
But let's not rule the G37 out of the game just yet. It has proven itself to be a sufficiently bad-ass machine by winning multiple comparison tests in sedan form and remaining a favorite among editors here at IL.
Our G37 test car piled on the options: a $3,200 Premium package added a Bose audio system, memory driver seat, Bluetooth and other amenities. The Navigation package added $2,200, the rear spoiler $550 and illuminated door-sill plates another $330.
The grand total for the 2009 Infiniti G37, which also had a six-speed manual, totaled $44,095 with destination. Cha-ching.
Specs Face Off
Let's not mess around; the price of entry for both of these machines is considerable. The G37's is just far more considerable, that's all. But the Infiniti also has the more impressive specs of the two. Its 3.7-liter V6 is rated at 330 horsepower and 270 pound-feet of torque. It has huge 19-inch wheels and sticky Bridgestone Potenza summer tires, plus fixed four-piston brake calipers are matched with 14-inch front rotors.
But the Genesis holds its own on paper with 306 hp and 266 lb-ft of torque from its own 3.8-liter V6. It, too, comes with 19-inch wheels and the same Bridgestone summer tires, and four-piston Brembo calipers are up front with 13.4-inch rotors.
So are G37's extra amenities, power and proven platform enough to better a competitor which both in-person and on paper appears to have it covered in most critical arenas?
That's what we pondered as we drove both cars for two weeks. We slid them around wet roads, spun dyno rollers and sliced through slalom cones — we even squeezed into their cramped backseats. Before it all began, we decided price and performance would weigh equally on the outcome of this test (25 percent each). The rest would be down to feature content (15 percent), our subjective evaluation score (15 percent), fuel economy (15 percent) and editors' picks (5 percent).
On the Road
If this contest were boiled down to the driving experience alone, the win would go to the 2009 Infiniti G37. It is the better driving car. Its suspension offers a better compromise between a comfortable ride and crisp handling, its engine is better suited to the character of a sport coupe, and all its controls provide better feel and response. Even its steering, which at first seems to be artificially cursed with too much effort, comes alive at speed to inform its driver precisely how much cornering grip remains at the front tires. It's a well-refined formula that Nissan has nailed on all its FM-platform cars.
The Infiniti's VQ-Series engine is the big selling point here. With a ripping 7,600-rpm redline, it's living large at high speed rather than just surviving (an impression we'd verify later at the dyno). This kind of power delivery is better suited for hard driving than the grunty mill in the Genesis. Start singing up a mountain road with the G-machine and you'll find yourself at high rpm early and often. And you'll want an engine that's comfortable there.
Perhaps the only area where the 2009 Infiniti G37 falls short relative to the Genesis is in the use of a viscous limited-slip differential. Slower reacting and therefore less predictable than the Torsen LSD in the Genesis, the G's viscous unit simply isn't as effective as it should be in a platform this capable.
Yet there's no denying that the Genesis is very, very good. Enough so, in fact, that most drivers wouldn't miss the G37's added dimension of communication unless they'd had a back-to-back run with the Hyundai. The steering and brakes of the Genesis coupe lack the G37's immediacy, but nonetheless offer ample confidence. Its shifter isn't as bolt-action precise, but we never missed a shift.
And its 3.8-liter engine, well, there's the heart of a minivan under the coupe's sloping hood and we can't pretend otherwise. We swear there's still a little Kia Sedona in its otherwise throaty intake note, which sounds far better than the G's raspy howl. But let's not forget, this Korean engine is fractionally bigger than the Infiniti's mill. The Genesis' V6 makes ample yank right off idle and equals or exceeds the G's engine in power and torque production until 4,800 rpm according to the Dynojet chassis dyno at MD Automotive in Westminster, California.
Where the BS Stops
At the test track the 2010 Hyundai Genesis proves itself a worthy entry into the sport coupe segment by giving the pricier Infiniti a run in several categories. First, the Genesis tips the scales at just 3,488 pounds — 221 pounds lighter than the G37. Porkiness has long been a valid gripe about any car built on Nissan's FM platform and the G is no exception.
But being lightweight didn't help the Genesis coupe accelerate as quickly as we had hoped. The Genesis hit 60 mph from a standstill in 6.4 seconds (6.1 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip) and went through the traps at the quarter-mile mark in 14.5 seconds at 97.9 mph. That's considerably slower than the G37's 5.7-second run to 60 mph (5.4 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip) and its quarter-mile performance of 13.9 seconds at 101.4 mph.
Accelerating the Genesis quickly can be tricky because of a drivetrain protection feature built into its engine calibration. Shift the Genesis coupe aggressively at redline and you'll occasionally experience a power cut in your target gear which lasts 3 seconds.
The problem is exacerbated by the car's tachometer, which doesn't keep up with the engine speed in the first few gears, so it's too easy to run the engine to its 6,800-rpm maximum speed (redline is 6,500 rpm). Hyundai says the drivetrain protection is triggered at 6,800 rpm, but once it intervened, we experienced a power reduction in the next gear at much lower engine speeds. Run this V6 to the rev limiter in any given gear and it will hang there comfortably. But if you shift hard and quickly at the indicated redline, you'll occasionally be punished with that cut in power.
Hyundai is considering a new calibration, but there are cars going on sale that incorporate this 3-second power intervention, a feature that can punish drivers at engine speeds well below redline. Some people won't notice it, but to others it could be a deal breaker in the purchase of a Genesis 3.8 coupe.
The Handling Story
Throttle inputs can be used to adjust the cornering attitude of both coupes around the skid pad, but the Torsen differential in the Genesis makes these adjustments quicker and inspires more confidence while doing so. The Torsen diff also gives the Hyundai better lateral grip than the G37, with a 0.88g performance on the skid pad versus 0.85g for the G37.
Through the slalom, the G37's heavier steering offers high-resolution feedback, which helps making prudent decisions at speed easy. But the Genesis has better body roll control and provides more than enough feedback to sense its limits. The Infiniti is quicker at 69.7 mph vs. the Genesis coupe's 68.2-mph run.
The real story here is bigger than the numbers. Drive these cars back-to-back over the same section of road and you'll find them similarly capable. You'll squeeze more speed out of one exiting a corner yet find the other more confident going in. You'll learn to love the G37's instant brake response and then fall for the Genesis' more relaxed but equally confident pedal action. Going quickly in the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe is a product of its guttural grunt, intuitive feel and textbook rear-drive balance. By comparison, the Infiniti is more anxious, more precise and more immediate.
In this case, both approaches work well. But if we were going to split hairs, we'd say that the 2009 Infiniti G37 makes a bigger sacrifice in daily driving where its heavy steering and immediate brake response seem unnecessary and, at times, awkward. But then we'd have to tell you that the Genesis coupe's engine mounts are too soft, so its big V6 flops around way too much during quick shifts or rapid throttle transitions, creating intrusive drivetrain lash. But we won't do that because we genuinely like the way both cars are tuned.
Living Inside and Out
Hyundai's interior quality and design are a step up from many comparably priced cars, but when compared to a machine as costly as the G37 it's sometimes clear where the corners were cut.
The G37's center stack offers two additional knobs that are universally more expensive and offer more expedient, rapid control than buttons. In this case, there's another knob for the G37's passenger temperature, because dual-zone climate control is standard on the Infiniti and not available on the Genesis. There's also another knob for radio tuning. The radio and ventilation controls for both cars operate with quality feel, but with few exceptions, the Infiniti offers a slightly improved level of precision and damping from its knobs.
The Infiniti's $2,200 Navigation package provides one of the best nav systems in the business as well as XM Nav Traffic, 9.3GB of hard-drive storage for music and a compact flash slot for MP3 playback. Navigation won't be available on the Hyundai until mid-model year.
Hyundai has cut no corners on the seats of the Genesis, however. In fact, the only way we can think to realistically improve them is to put a non-slip surface on the seat bottom. Otherwise, they are supportive, adjustable, even good-looking. And they're superior to the G37's seats in every way except there is no easy-entry release for either of the front seats, a feature the G offers.
Once in the backseat, passengers 5-foot-10 and taller will have to duck down in the Genesis but will still fit in the G37. Both cars make compromises in their rear seats, which is to say, don't plan on riding in the back of either one for very long.
And finally, the ability to make the Infiniti G37 look slab-sided and stodgy requires a car as aggressively styled as the Genesis coupe. This is truly a beautiful machine with lines and angles which literally stop traffic. If you're not a wuss, you'll get yours in Bathurst Black, which best shows off the coupe's gorgeous haunches and sculpted sides. Hyundai managed to knock off the G37's elegant proportions and then add some much-needed shape. And we love it.
The Rest of the Story
It's the undeniable value equation that tips this test in the favor of the 2010 Hyundai Genesis 3.8. You simply get more car for your dollar with the Genesis coupe. Sure, it's not as much car as the 2009 Infiniti G37, but at two-thirds the cost, it doesn't have to be.
Plus the Hyundai effectively opens up the sport coupe arena to a new buyer — one who isn't prepared to drop the better part of $50 large on a car but wants the looks and most of the performance of the big players. And that, friends, earns the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 a spot on anybody's short list of possible purchases.
(Play video) Comparison Test: 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 vs. 2009 Infiniti G37 Coupe
Photos
Slideshow
See that shape in the side of the Genesis coupe? Infiniti missed that boat.
We won't pretend the Genesis coupe's profile is original.
2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 and 2009 Infiniti G37.
Ultimately, the G37 revs higher and makes more power, but look carefully at what happens before 4,800 rpm and you'll see the Genesis coupe's strengths.
And guess what? It looks that good in person, too.
It's the elegantly sculpted details that give the Genesis its gorgeous shape.
Minimal body roll makes the Genesis fun at speed.
With 306 hp and 266 lb-ft of torque the Genesis coupe's 3.8-liter V6 might be from a minivan, but it's sufficiently beefed up.
The Genesis doesn't give up much to the G37 inside. Both its design and materials are solid.
Several editors disliked the Genesis coupe's steering wheel covering and stitching. Some didn't even notice.
We'd prefer a few more knobs which would make certain controls easier to use. Plus this might be the only part of the Genesis that's ugly.
In case you forget.
Rear seating in the Genesis coupe is what you expect: compact. Even more so than the G37.
Trunk space isn't a reason to buy a sport coupe. And this hasn't changed with the Genesis.
The 19-inch wheels come as part of the Track package. So do those Brembo brakes.
2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe.
Yep, that works.
It's still striking, but can't match the Genesis coupe's fresh lines.
Here's something we wouldn't have called the G37 before the Genesis coupe came along: slab-sided.
It still looks good at speed.
Body roll is minimal on both cars.
With 330 hp, 270 lb-ft of torque and a ripping 7,600-rpm redline, the G37 has the superior engine.
Both cars have ample steering wheel controls.
More knobs make the G37's controls a bit easier to use. Its navigation system is also superb.
These seats have nothing on the those in the Genesis coupe.
Because of its roofline, taller passengers fit more comfortably in the G37, but no one will want to spend much time in the back of either of these coupes.
Aggressively styled headlamps are a G37 icon.
The 19-inch wheels are standard on the G37S.
That spoiler is a $550 option.
2009 Infiniti G37.
They're certainly similar, but only one looks tough.
By Josh Jacquot, Senior Road Test Editor
Check out the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 vs. 2009 Infiniti G37 Coupe Dyno Test
The list of six-cylinder sport coupes that actually matter is a short one. Let's face it, until now it's been BMW 335i and Infiniti G37. And then, about two weeks ago, Hyundai dropped a bomb. A big one.
It's called the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe.
And all of a sudden, the Korean carmaker — whose previous attempts at "sporty" included machines like the unenviable Scoupe and the forgettable first-generation Tiburon — has thrust itself into the spotlight with a car that at once looks good and has the specs to do the deed. Three hundred horsepower. Six-speed manual transmission. Rear-wheel drive. Limited-slip differential. So put that in your Scoupe pipe and smoke it. Here comes a real car.
Sounds remarkably like the territory of the 2009 Infiniti G37, doesn't it? And it is. In every way except price. So there's your comparison test.
It'll Run Ya
If you've read our full test of the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8, then you know it's a solid machine with ample power, gorgeous styling and a low price. A really low price.
For $29,500 you can have yours with a 3.8-liter V6 and the Track package, which adds a stiffer suspension, a Torsen limited-slip differential, Brembo brakes and 19-inch wheels. A six-speed manual transmission is standard equipment and our test car has one. Complete with its floor mats, iPod connector and destination fee, it costs $30,375. This number, by the way, is $6,625 less than the base price of the Infiniti G37.
But let's not rule the G37 out of the game just yet. It has proven itself to be a sufficiently bad-ass machine by winning multiple comparison tests in sedan form and remaining a favorite among editors here at IL.
Our G37 test car piled on the options: a $3,200 Premium package added a Bose audio system, memory driver seat, Bluetooth and other amenities. The Navigation package added $2,200, the rear spoiler $550 and illuminated door-sill plates another $330.
The grand total for the 2009 Infiniti G37, which also had a six-speed manual, totaled $44,095 with destination. Cha-ching.
Specs Face Off
Let's not mess around; the price of entry for both of these machines is considerable. The G37's is just far more considerable, that's all. But the Infiniti also has the more impressive specs of the two. Its 3.7-liter V6 is rated at 330 horsepower and 270 pound-feet of torque. It has huge 19-inch wheels and sticky Bridgestone Potenza summer tires, plus fixed four-piston brake calipers are matched with 14-inch front rotors.
But the Genesis holds its own on paper with 306 hp and 266 lb-ft of torque from its own 3.8-liter V6. It, too, comes with 19-inch wheels and the same Bridgestone summer tires, and four-piston Brembo calipers are up front with 13.4-inch rotors.
So are G37's extra amenities, power and proven platform enough to better a competitor which both in-person and on paper appears to have it covered in most critical arenas?
That's what we pondered as we drove both cars for two weeks. We slid them around wet roads, spun dyno rollers and sliced through slalom cones — we even squeezed into their cramped backseats. Before it all began, we decided price and performance would weigh equally on the outcome of this test (25 percent each). The rest would be down to feature content (15 percent), our subjective evaluation score (15 percent), fuel economy (15 percent) and editors' picks (5 percent).
On the Road
If this contest were boiled down to the driving experience alone, the win would go to the 2009 Infiniti G37. It is the better driving car. Its suspension offers a better compromise between a comfortable ride and crisp handling, its engine is better suited to the character of a sport coupe, and all its controls provide better feel and response. Even its steering, which at first seems to be artificially cursed with too much effort, comes alive at speed to inform its driver precisely how much cornering grip remains at the front tires. It's a well-refined formula that Nissan has nailed on all its FM-platform cars.
The Infiniti's VQ-Series engine is the big selling point here. With a ripping 7,600-rpm redline, it's living large at high speed rather than just surviving (an impression we'd verify later at the dyno). This kind of power delivery is better suited for hard driving than the grunty mill in the Genesis. Start singing up a mountain road with the G-machine and you'll find yourself at high rpm early and often. And you'll want an engine that's comfortable there.
Perhaps the only area where the 2009 Infiniti G37 falls short relative to the Genesis is in the use of a viscous limited-slip differential. Slower reacting and therefore less predictable than the Torsen LSD in the Genesis, the G's viscous unit simply isn't as effective as it should be in a platform this capable.
Yet there's no denying that the Genesis is very, very good. Enough so, in fact, that most drivers wouldn't miss the G37's added dimension of communication unless they'd had a back-to-back run with the Hyundai. The steering and brakes of the Genesis coupe lack the G37's immediacy, but nonetheless offer ample confidence. Its shifter isn't as bolt-action precise, but we never missed a shift.
And its 3.8-liter engine, well, there's the heart of a minivan under the coupe's sloping hood and we can't pretend otherwise. We swear there's still a little Kia Sedona in its otherwise throaty intake note, which sounds far better than the G's raspy howl. But let's not forget, this Korean engine is fractionally bigger than the Infiniti's mill. The Genesis' V6 makes ample yank right off idle and equals or exceeds the G's engine in power and torque production until 4,800 rpm according to the Dynojet chassis dyno at MD Automotive in Westminster, California.
Where the BS Stops
At the test track the 2010 Hyundai Genesis proves itself a worthy entry into the sport coupe segment by giving the pricier Infiniti a run in several categories. First, the Genesis tips the scales at just 3,488 pounds — 221 pounds lighter than the G37. Porkiness has long been a valid gripe about any car built on Nissan's FM platform and the G is no exception.
But being lightweight didn't help the Genesis coupe accelerate as quickly as we had hoped. The Genesis hit 60 mph from a standstill in 6.4 seconds (6.1 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip) and went through the traps at the quarter-mile mark in 14.5 seconds at 97.9 mph. That's considerably slower than the G37's 5.7-second run to 60 mph (5.4 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip) and its quarter-mile performance of 13.9 seconds at 101.4 mph.
Accelerating the Genesis quickly can be tricky because of a drivetrain protection feature built into its engine calibration. Shift the Genesis coupe aggressively at redline and you'll occasionally experience a power cut in your target gear which lasts 3 seconds.
The problem is exacerbated by the car's tachometer, which doesn't keep up with the engine speed in the first few gears, so it's too easy to run the engine to its 6,800-rpm maximum speed (redline is 6,500 rpm). Hyundai says the drivetrain protection is triggered at 6,800 rpm, but once it intervened, we experienced a power reduction in the next gear at much lower engine speeds. Run this V6 to the rev limiter in any given gear and it will hang there comfortably. But if you shift hard and quickly at the indicated redline, you'll occasionally be punished with that cut in power.
Hyundai is considering a new calibration, but there are cars going on sale that incorporate this 3-second power intervention, a feature that can punish drivers at engine speeds well below redline. Some people won't notice it, but to others it could be a deal breaker in the purchase of a Genesis 3.8 coupe.
The Handling Story
Throttle inputs can be used to adjust the cornering attitude of both coupes around the skid pad, but the Torsen differential in the Genesis makes these adjustments quicker and inspires more confidence while doing so. The Torsen diff also gives the Hyundai better lateral grip than the G37, with a 0.88g performance on the skid pad versus 0.85g for the G37.
Through the slalom, the G37's heavier steering offers high-resolution feedback, which helps making prudent decisions at speed easy. But the Genesis has better body roll control and provides more than enough feedback to sense its limits. The Infiniti is quicker at 69.7 mph vs. the Genesis coupe's 68.2-mph run.
The real story here is bigger than the numbers. Drive these cars back-to-back over the same section of road and you'll find them similarly capable. You'll squeeze more speed out of one exiting a corner yet find the other more confident going in. You'll learn to love the G37's instant brake response and then fall for the Genesis' more relaxed but equally confident pedal action. Going quickly in the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe is a product of its guttural grunt, intuitive feel and textbook rear-drive balance. By comparison, the Infiniti is more anxious, more precise and more immediate.
In this case, both approaches work well. But if we were going to split hairs, we'd say that the 2009 Infiniti G37 makes a bigger sacrifice in daily driving where its heavy steering and immediate brake response seem unnecessary and, at times, awkward. But then we'd have to tell you that the Genesis coupe's engine mounts are too soft, so its big V6 flops around way too much during quick shifts or rapid throttle transitions, creating intrusive drivetrain lash. But we won't do that because we genuinely like the way both cars are tuned.
Living Inside and Out
Hyundai's interior quality and design are a step up from many comparably priced cars, but when compared to a machine as costly as the G37 it's sometimes clear where the corners were cut.
The G37's center stack offers two additional knobs that are universally more expensive and offer more expedient, rapid control than buttons. In this case, there's another knob for the G37's passenger temperature, because dual-zone climate control is standard on the Infiniti and not available on the Genesis. There's also another knob for radio tuning. The radio and ventilation controls for both cars operate with quality feel, but with few exceptions, the Infiniti offers a slightly improved level of precision and damping from its knobs.
The Infiniti's $2,200 Navigation package provides one of the best nav systems in the business as well as XM Nav Traffic, 9.3GB of hard-drive storage for music and a compact flash slot for MP3 playback. Navigation won't be available on the Hyundai until mid-model year.
Hyundai has cut no corners on the seats of the Genesis, however. In fact, the only way we can think to realistically improve them is to put a non-slip surface on the seat bottom. Otherwise, they are supportive, adjustable, even good-looking. And they're superior to the G37's seats in every way except there is no easy-entry release for either of the front seats, a feature the G offers.
Once in the backseat, passengers 5-foot-10 and taller will have to duck down in the Genesis but will still fit in the G37. Both cars make compromises in their rear seats, which is to say, don't plan on riding in the back of either one for very long.
And finally, the ability to make the Infiniti G37 look slab-sided and stodgy requires a car as aggressively styled as the Genesis coupe. This is truly a beautiful machine with lines and angles which literally stop traffic. If you're not a wuss, you'll get yours in Bathurst Black, which best shows off the coupe's gorgeous haunches and sculpted sides. Hyundai managed to knock off the G37's elegant proportions and then add some much-needed shape. And we love it.
The Rest of the Story
It's the undeniable value equation that tips this test in the favor of the 2010 Hyundai Genesis 3.8. You simply get more car for your dollar with the Genesis coupe. Sure, it's not as much car as the 2009 Infiniti G37, but at two-thirds the cost, it doesn't have to be.
Plus the Hyundai effectively opens up the sport coupe arena to a new buyer — one who isn't prepared to drop the better part of $50 large on a car but wants the looks and most of the performance of the big players. And that, friends, earns the 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 a spot on anybody's short list of possible purchases.
(Play video) Comparison Test: 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 vs. 2009 Infiniti G37 Coupe Photos
Slideshow
See that shape in the side of the Genesis coupe? Infiniti missed that boat.
We won't pretend the Genesis coupe's profile is original.
2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 and 2009 Infiniti G37.
Ultimately, the G37 revs higher and makes more power, but look carefully at what happens before 4,800 rpm and you'll see the Genesis coupe's strengths.
And guess what? It looks that good in person, too.
It's the elegantly sculpted details that give the Genesis its gorgeous shape.
Minimal body roll makes the Genesis fun at speed.
With 306 hp and 266 lb-ft of torque the Genesis coupe's 3.8-liter V6 might be from a minivan, but it's sufficiently beefed up.
The Genesis doesn't give up much to the G37 inside. Both its design and materials are solid.
Several editors disliked the Genesis coupe's steering wheel covering and stitching. Some didn't even notice.
We'd prefer a few more knobs which would make certain controls easier to use. Plus this might be the only part of the Genesis that's ugly.
In case you forget.
Rear seating in the Genesis coupe is what you expect: compact. Even more so than the G37.
Trunk space isn't a reason to buy a sport coupe. And this hasn't changed with the Genesis.
The 19-inch wheels come as part of the Track package. So do those Brembo brakes.
2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe.
Yep, that works.
It's still striking, but can't match the Genesis coupe's fresh lines.
Here's something we wouldn't have called the G37 before the Genesis coupe came along: slab-sided.
It still looks good at speed.
Body roll is minimal on both cars.
With 330 hp, 270 lb-ft of torque and a ripping 7,600-rpm redline, the G37 has the superior engine.
Both cars have ample steering wheel controls.
More knobs make the G37's controls a bit easier to use. Its navigation system is also superb.
These seats have nothing on the those in the Genesis coupe.
Because of its roofline, taller passengers fit more comfortably in the G37, but no one will want to spend much time in the back of either of these coupes.
Aggressively styled headlamps are a G37 icon.
The 19-inch wheels are standard on the G37S.
That spoiler is a $550 option.
2009 Infiniti G37.
They're certainly similar, but only one looks tough.
#64
03-28-2009, 11:20 AM
Taken from evolutionm.net: AMS Genesis Coupe
The AMS Genesis coupe is HERE!!! Let the modding BEGIN!!!
As of 3pm this afternoon we picked up our first Genesis 2.0T Track coupe. Our special projects technician Ivan Phipps just signed the paperwork. We drove it right to the shop and started our long but detailed analysis of what needs to be done.
1. The exhaust is pretty bottlenecked as we expected...big room for improvement there
2. There is CAVERNOUS room for an AMS Turbo kit so see that in the very near future
3. IC pipe and an intake should be able to be worked up very quickly
4. The tuners here are already on the case for re mapping the ECU
5. Looks to be a returnless fuel system so we will have to fix that.
6. Speed density for air metering so a vent to atmosphere BOV should work without a hitch on the car
I can go on all day but how about some pictures to start
Ivan is going to jump in here tonight for a much more in depth analysis
Also please if you are in the midwest and considering picking up a Genesis coupe please make sure you check out Gartner Hyundai in Aurora, IL. Phil and Eddie really took care of us over there. The best part is everyone there has a true vested interest in seeing the real potential of this car Gartner Buick Hyundai Saab -
LET THE MODDING BEGIN!!!
Got to explore this thing a bit. Here is some specs that might not be published yet.
Front wheel and tire weigh 55 lbs each.
Rear wheel and tire weigh 57.4 lbs each.
Exhaust is 2 3/8" (60mm) and is only 1 3/4" where it is crimped to clear the body brace.
Front sway bar is 25mm.
Rear sway bar is 23mm.
Axles are 1.100" (pretty decent size).
Brembos are not the same as the Evo (although pad size may be).
Intercooler is TINY... 4 3/4 tall, 3 1/2 deep and 20" wide. Upgraded ICs will have to be brought forward where there is plenty of room.
Front bumper is fairly easy to remove. Oil changes should be super easy. It appears to be the same oil filter we use on the 4g63 and 4b11.
The car has many many bells and whistles. I will go into the super pimp ones in a later post. I have to burn a full tank of 87 octane out of this thing tonight so I can get it on the dyno tomorrow.
Here are some quick pictures I took on my phone.
The tiny cooler at the bottom is the intercooler. The charge pipes are held on with spring clamps!!!
First night with the coupe... my impressions.
First off, I have to say that this car looks so much better in person than it does in pictures. You really do not get a good idea of the shape of a car in 2D. In pictures, it appears smaller than it actually is. This might have to do with the large wheel and tire throwing off the perspective. Pictures make it look the size of a Tib when in person, it appears to be more the size of a G35.
Fit and finish is very good. The interior and exterior both have a quality look and feel to them. The chrome "H" on the front and rear are distracting. I pulled them off and painted them with VHT Nite Shade spray on tint. The chrome still shines though and now looks like black chrome. On the front, this mod fits perfectly. On the rear, the "H" still stands out a bit much for my taste. The car has a very unique shape. Everywhere I drive, there are people taking second looks, pointing and taking pictures. I have heard several people say "what is that?" At the local car hangout, I was surrounded by people before I could even get out of the car and swamped with questions and comments all night. People really like the car.
The interior is very very nice. The seats are ultra comfortable. The dash layout is awesome and controls are easy to use. The stereo system is perfect for my taste. AM / FM / XM / 6 disk in dash CD / MP3 player / iPod cable / etc.... The sub hits hard enough to feel. Steering wheel controls are easy to use and work fine. I wish they had a mute button though. Bluetooth works perfectly and phone calls are clear and easy to make / receive. Wind noise management is awesome. Cruising with the sunroof open is ultra quiet. With the windows down, I could still talk on the hands free. Back seat head room is limited. Shorter people only back there.
The proximity entry is very cool. All you need is the key in your pocket. You walk up to the car and press a small button on the door handle and it unlocks and disarms the system. Pull the handle and the window drops down a 1/4" (BMWesque). Hop in and close the door and the window goes back up. Push the clutch in and push the start button once and it takes over from there. The engine fires right up and purrs. There is enough vibration at idle to shake the shifter but it does not transmit when your hand is on it. Clutch feels nice. It has a bit of pressure to it and feels like a heavier duty pressure plate. Engagement point is in a perfect spot and feels natural. I cant even tell you where that point is as it is placed perfectly and takes zero thought to drive. The shifter has positive engagements and is nice and notchy. Reverse is far left and up. It takes a bit of pressure to get it past the 1 / 2 gate. When engaged in revers, the car lets you know by sounding a long beep. I did find that a quick reverse and pull out into neutral then quick into first seemed to jump me back into reverse. It seems that the pressure required to get into the reverse gate is gone for a moment when you pull out of reverse. I will do some more exploring on this issue today. The throttle pedal has a good feel to it but does not exactly feel connected to the motor. My biggest gripe about this car is throttle control during and after shifts. There is a LOT of throttle hang (rpms stay up when throttle is released with clutch pushed in) which makes smooth shifting an issue. I hope that Hyundai gets this sorted out and has a reflash to correct this problem. Throttle response is good and low rpm power is great. Power falls off dramatically up top though. I do not like the torque curve. When the torque curve flattens out, this car will be a LOT of fun. I will be exploring spirited driving a bit more today and will post up my impressions a bit later.
So far, this car is shaping up to be pretty nice.
As stated above, we did get a chance to get the coupe on the dyno today. Still running 87 octane. It spools ultra fast and makes peak Tq around 2500 rpms if I remember correctly. Peak Tq numbers were in the mid 220s and peak HP in the upper 180s. Chris will be chiming in with his impressions, dyno charts and comparisons soon.
We did play around with a few things and made decent gains. Chris will post all the details.
93 octane dyno numbers coming soon.
UPDATES!!!!!!
Ok, so we did a little dyno testing on... Sunday. Yes, we are so excited about turbocharged cars that we were actually here on a sunday working on it!
Anyways, like Ivan said this car has an amazing fit and finish to it for its price point. It actually makes me want one. The stereo system is super cool, and I'm honestly a bit jealous! I'll get to what I'm good at though, hard facts!
First off, the car is on 87 octane! We are unsure of how this will effect the results but you can be sure that we will test that too! One thing we are definitely known for at AMS is our exhaustive testing procedures
Secondly, for those of you that are unfamiliar with dyno charts, I apologize at the complexity of these. Boost and air/fuel are at the bottom, and horsepower and toque is the top chart.
The air/fuel curve on all the charts has a rather weird bump in the mid-range and the car does not run overly rich up top like we are used to seeing with factory turbocharged cars. At this time it definitely does not seem that there is alot of horsepower to be made with fuel tuning alone.
I logged a couple pulls on the dyno with generic OBDII scanner and there is nothing fishy or special going on with these cars as far as I can tell at this point. The throttle stays all the way open until redline, it goes into a normal open loop fueling strategy at full throttle, and has normal 0-1 volt o2 sensors which are utilised during closed loop only. Without further adieu, here are the results!
This is the car in stock form on our dynojet at AMS.
The next thing we though to do was to remove the air filter and see if there was any restriction at the current boost level. Since there is no MAF, and the turbo isn't moving very much air at this point, it appears that there will be no horsepower gains from running a different filter or intake pipe at this point.
Of course the next logical step is to put a boost controller on it!!! Using just that, we gained a surprising 45whp in the midrange!!
Surprisingly it responded very well to the boost controller, and didn't even cut me off until about 18.5 psi. Once it hits the boost limiter though, you have to shut the car off and turn it back on or it opens the BOV and refuses to run any boost!!! The MBC definitely smoothed the boost curve out quite a bit, and it does seem like the power delivery would be more linear on the street. I can't wait to get into these ECUs and see what they will really do!
Today after work, I got out our Longacre corner weight scales and loaded the Coupe on it. I did not laser level the scales as we do for actual corner weighting but the area I used has been tested to be pretty flat. The corner numbers might vary a bit but the overall number is accurate.
Weight was taking with 5/8 tank of gas and as delivered from the dealership (owners manual in the glove box and spare / jack still in place)
Overall weight 3352#
Left 1689# 50.4%
Rear 1537# 45.8%
Cross 1688# 50.4% (changes to 50.1% when I am in the drivers seat)
FL 908# FR 908#
RL 781# RR 756#
I've had a few requests for stock genesis vs stock ralliart. Here you go!
Red is the Ralliart
Blue is the Genesis coupe
I got into the Coupe's engine compartment a bit today. Steve and Rich took a lot of pictures that Rich will be editing and posting up tomorrow. LOTS of interesting things under the hood.
Fuel system is a returnless style but has a removable plug on the end that could possibly make it adaptable to a return style system with a boost compensating fuel pressure regulator.
The intake manifold is quite odd. It appears that there is a vacuum reservoir built into it.
The BOV is installed in the compressor housing (like an SRT-4) and is connected to the vac reservoir which allows the ECU to open it even under boost. When we had the car on the dyno Sunday, we found the boost limit at around 18.5 psi but it was not a hard cut like we normally see (when fuel injectors are shut off) but rather a soft cut like the BOV was being opened. Our engineering department took measurements for a CNC block off plate!!
The intake tube has a large restrictive metal muffler installed in the middle of it. If I remember correctly, it necks the inlet down to around 2" in that spot. The good thing is that it is easily replaced with a piece of tubing. I am not sure if you will see HP gains from deleting this on a stock car, but it will eventually be a restriction as mods progress. The intake also has a large capped off bung on it that looks as if it was designed for a recirculating BOV. I have already noticed oil in the intake tube. I have 200 miles on the car. A catch can for the PCV system will certainly be needed to prevent oil from coating the inside of the IC piping and intercooler.
The air filter box and ducting to it seem to be very nice pieces. Air enters the upper grill opening in the bumper and flows through slots on the radiator block off plate to the inlet of the snorkel for the air box. We will do some testing, but I think that the factory setup should be just fine for most applications.
The compressor wheel on the turbo is actually bigger than I had anticipated. It will be interesting to see what the turbine side looks like. It will also be interesting to see what kind of HP we can get out of the factory turbo before we upgrade it.
Intercooler piping is thick wall aluminum. ID is approximately 1 3/4" on the hot side pipe I measured. An upgrade will be needed here for sure.
I am sure there are other things I am forgetting but I will have to review the pictures tomorrow.
The AMS Genesis coupe is HERE!!! Let the modding BEGIN!!!
As of 3pm this afternoon we picked up our first Genesis 2.0T Track coupe. Our special projects technician Ivan Phipps just signed the paperwork. We drove it right to the shop and started our long but detailed analysis of what needs to be done.
1. The exhaust is pretty bottlenecked as we expected...big room for improvement there
2. There is CAVERNOUS room for an AMS Turbo kit so see that in the very near future
3. IC pipe and an intake should be able to be worked up very quickly
4. The tuners here are already on the case for re mapping the ECU
5. Looks to be a returnless fuel system so we will have to fix that.
6. Speed density for air metering so a vent to atmosphere BOV should work without a hitch on the car
I can go on all day but how about some pictures to start
Ivan is going to jump in here tonight for a much more in depth analysis
Also please if you are in the midwest and considering picking up a Genesis coupe please make sure you check out Gartner Hyundai in Aurora, IL. Phil and Eddie really took care of us over there. The best part is everyone there has a true vested interest in seeing the real potential of this car Gartner Buick Hyundai Saab -
LET THE MODDING BEGIN!!!
Got to explore this thing a bit. Here is some specs that might not be published yet.
Front wheel and tire weigh 55 lbs each.
Rear wheel and tire weigh 57.4 lbs each.
Exhaust is 2 3/8" (60mm) and is only 1 3/4" where it is crimped to clear the body brace.
Front sway bar is 25mm.
Rear sway bar is 23mm.
Axles are 1.100" (pretty decent size).
Brembos are not the same as the Evo (although pad size may be).
Intercooler is TINY... 4 3/4 tall, 3 1/2 deep and 20" wide. Upgraded ICs will have to be brought forward where there is plenty of room.
Front bumper is fairly easy to remove. Oil changes should be super easy. It appears to be the same oil filter we use on the 4g63 and 4b11.
The car has many many bells and whistles. I will go into the super pimp ones in a later post. I have to burn a full tank of 87 octane out of this thing tonight so I can get it on the dyno tomorrow.
Here are some quick pictures I took on my phone.
The tiny cooler at the bottom is the intercooler. The charge pipes are held on with spring clamps!!!
First night with the coupe... my impressions.
First off, I have to say that this car looks so much better in person than it does in pictures. You really do not get a good idea of the shape of a car in 2D. In pictures, it appears smaller than it actually is. This might have to do with the large wheel and tire throwing off the perspective. Pictures make it look the size of a Tib when in person, it appears to be more the size of a G35.
Fit and finish is very good. The interior and exterior both have a quality look and feel to them. The chrome "H" on the front and rear are distracting. I pulled them off and painted them with VHT Nite Shade spray on tint. The chrome still shines though and now looks like black chrome. On the front, this mod fits perfectly. On the rear, the "H" still stands out a bit much for my taste. The car has a very unique shape. Everywhere I drive, there are people taking second looks, pointing and taking pictures. I have heard several people say "what is that?" At the local car hangout, I was surrounded by people before I could even get out of the car and swamped with questions and comments all night. People really like the car.
The interior is very very nice. The seats are ultra comfortable. The dash layout is awesome and controls are easy to use. The stereo system is perfect for my taste. AM / FM / XM / 6 disk in dash CD / MP3 player / iPod cable / etc.... The sub hits hard enough to feel. Steering wheel controls are easy to use and work fine. I wish they had a mute button though. Bluetooth works perfectly and phone calls are clear and easy to make / receive. Wind noise management is awesome. Cruising with the sunroof open is ultra quiet. With the windows down, I could still talk on the hands free. Back seat head room is limited. Shorter people only back there.
The proximity entry is very cool. All you need is the key in your pocket. You walk up to the car and press a small button on the door handle and it unlocks and disarms the system. Pull the handle and the window drops down a 1/4" (BMWesque). Hop in and close the door and the window goes back up. Push the clutch in and push the start button once and it takes over from there. The engine fires right up and purrs. There is enough vibration at idle to shake the shifter but it does not transmit when your hand is on it. Clutch feels nice. It has a bit of pressure to it and feels like a heavier duty pressure plate. Engagement point is in a perfect spot and feels natural. I cant even tell you where that point is as it is placed perfectly and takes zero thought to drive. The shifter has positive engagements and is nice and notchy. Reverse is far left and up. It takes a bit of pressure to get it past the 1 / 2 gate. When engaged in revers, the car lets you know by sounding a long beep. I did find that a quick reverse and pull out into neutral then quick into first seemed to jump me back into reverse. It seems that the pressure required to get into the reverse gate is gone for a moment when you pull out of reverse. I will do some more exploring on this issue today. The throttle pedal has a good feel to it but does not exactly feel connected to the motor. My biggest gripe about this car is throttle control during and after shifts. There is a LOT of throttle hang (rpms stay up when throttle is released with clutch pushed in) which makes smooth shifting an issue. I hope that Hyundai gets this sorted out and has a reflash to correct this problem. Throttle response is good and low rpm power is great. Power falls off dramatically up top though. I do not like the torque curve. When the torque curve flattens out, this car will be a LOT of fun. I will be exploring spirited driving a bit more today and will post up my impressions a bit later.
So far, this car is shaping up to be pretty nice.
As stated above, we did get a chance to get the coupe on the dyno today. Still running 87 octane. It spools ultra fast and makes peak Tq around 2500 rpms if I remember correctly. Peak Tq numbers were in the mid 220s and peak HP in the upper 180s. Chris will be chiming in with his impressions, dyno charts and comparisons soon.
We did play around with a few things and made decent gains. Chris will post all the details.
93 octane dyno numbers coming soon.
UPDATES!!!!!!
Ok, so we did a little dyno testing on... Sunday. Yes, we are so excited about turbocharged cars that we were actually here on a sunday working on it!
Anyways, like Ivan said this car has an amazing fit and finish to it for its price point. It actually makes me want one. The stereo system is super cool, and I'm honestly a bit jealous! I'll get to what I'm good at though, hard facts!
First off, the car is on 87 octane! We are unsure of how this will effect the results but you can be sure that we will test that too! One thing we are definitely known for at AMS is our exhaustive testing procedures
Secondly, for those of you that are unfamiliar with dyno charts, I apologize at the complexity of these. Boost and air/fuel are at the bottom, and horsepower and toque is the top chart.
The air/fuel curve on all the charts has a rather weird bump in the mid-range and the car does not run overly rich up top like we are used to seeing with factory turbocharged cars. At this time it definitely does not seem that there is alot of horsepower to be made with fuel tuning alone.
I logged a couple pulls on the dyno with generic OBDII scanner and there is nothing fishy or special going on with these cars as far as I can tell at this point. The throttle stays all the way open until redline, it goes into a normal open loop fueling strategy at full throttle, and has normal 0-1 volt o2 sensors which are utilised during closed loop only. Without further adieu, here are the results!
This is the car in stock form on our dynojet at AMS.
The next thing we though to do was to remove the air filter and see if there was any restriction at the current boost level. Since there is no MAF, and the turbo isn't moving very much air at this point, it appears that there will be no horsepower gains from running a different filter or intake pipe at this point.
Of course the next logical step is to put a boost controller on it!!! Using just that, we gained a surprising 45whp in the midrange!!
Surprisingly it responded very well to the boost controller, and didn't even cut me off until about 18.5 psi. Once it hits the boost limiter though, you have to shut the car off and turn it back on or it opens the BOV and refuses to run any boost!!! The MBC definitely smoothed the boost curve out quite a bit, and it does seem like the power delivery would be more linear on the street. I can't wait to get into these ECUs and see what they will really do!
Today after work, I got out our Longacre corner weight scales and loaded the Coupe on it. I did not laser level the scales as we do for actual corner weighting but the area I used has been tested to be pretty flat. The corner numbers might vary a bit but the overall number is accurate.
Weight was taking with 5/8 tank of gas and as delivered from the dealership (owners manual in the glove box and spare / jack still in place)
Overall weight 3352#
Left 1689# 50.4%
Rear 1537# 45.8%
Cross 1688# 50.4% (changes to 50.1% when I am in the drivers seat)
FL 908# FR 908#
RL 781# RR 756#
I've had a few requests for stock genesis vs stock ralliart. Here you go!
Red is the Ralliart
Blue is the Genesis coupe
I got into the Coupe's engine compartment a bit today. Steve and Rich took a lot of pictures that Rich will be editing and posting up tomorrow. LOTS of interesting things under the hood.
Fuel system is a returnless style but has a removable plug on the end that could possibly make it adaptable to a return style system with a boost compensating fuel pressure regulator.
The intake manifold is quite odd. It appears that there is a vacuum reservoir built into it.
The BOV is installed in the compressor housing (like an SRT-4) and is connected to the vac reservoir which allows the ECU to open it even under boost. When we had the car on the dyno Sunday, we found the boost limit at around 18.5 psi but it was not a hard cut like we normally see (when fuel injectors are shut off) but rather a soft cut like the BOV was being opened. Our engineering department took measurements for a CNC block off plate!!
The intake tube has a large restrictive metal muffler installed in the middle of it. If I remember correctly, it necks the inlet down to around 2" in that spot. The good thing is that it is easily replaced with a piece of tubing. I am not sure if you will see HP gains from deleting this on a stock car, but it will eventually be a restriction as mods progress. The intake also has a large capped off bung on it that looks as if it was designed for a recirculating BOV. I have already noticed oil in the intake tube. I have 200 miles on the car. A catch can for the PCV system will certainly be needed to prevent oil from coating the inside of the IC piping and intercooler.
The air filter box and ducting to it seem to be very nice pieces. Air enters the upper grill opening in the bumper and flows through slots on the radiator block off plate to the inlet of the snorkel for the air box. We will do some testing, but I think that the factory setup should be just fine for most applications.
The compressor wheel on the turbo is actually bigger than I had anticipated. It will be interesting to see what the turbine side looks like. It will also be interesting to see what kind of HP we can get out of the factory turbo before we upgrade it.
Intercooler piping is thick wall aluminum. ID is approximately 1 3/4" on the hot side pipe I measured. An upgrade will be needed here for sure.
I am sure there are other things I am forgetting but I will have to review the pictures tomorrow.
#66
04-05-2009, 08:54 PM
So, I finally had time to dissect some of the data Ivan collected while I was away in Texas. Definitely some very interesting finds, but no huge power gains 
The fist thing Ivan did we re-baseline the car. In a effor to make sure our test results are always 100% accurate we always test, and retest our results to make sure that you can get the same power out of your car! Next on the to-do list was to put 93oct in the tank and run the car on the dyno again to see if it would learn itself some more power. On those 4 pulls there was no change.
Then Ivan decided to reset the ECU (disconnect the battery). After doing 4 more pulls, this end result was this:
It gained about 10whp from about 5500 RPMS to redline. There was no real, discernible difference other than that.
The next 3 three things he did dyno tests for are delete the silencer, deleted the 2nd catalytic converter with a test pipe in its place, and installed a prototype cat-back exhaust system. The runs are pictured below. As you can see there isn't really any difference between the runs. The difference in the peak numbers can be attributed to the standard variance that you will see from run to run anyways.
So far, our best bet has been to throw a boost controller on it and turn up the boost! We will be doing some more interesting stuff very shortly and we should have some very exciting things to show you guys in the near future!
-Chris __________________
Chris Black
-Tuner-
chris at amsperformance.com
Alright, I am going to spill the beans on today's dyno pulls, but you will have to wait till Monday for actual dyno charts. Chris will be posting them up as soon as he has time to go through them.
Our baseline dyno numbers on 93 octane fuel are 192 WHP and 219 lbs Tq (SAE corrected) with the 100% bone stock car, stock boost control and no tuning at all.
Today with JUST BOLT ON AMS prototype parts, we put down 212 WHP and 220 lbs Tq (SAE corrected) still on stock boost control and no tuning at all.
Well, the 20 WHP gain is quite nice but only 1 more lb of TQ??? What the hell am I so excited about (you might be asking)??? Well let me tell you. These are just PEAK numbers. To fully appreciate the gains you must see the dyno charts. With the stock turbo, you make peak Tq very low in the RPM range due to the boost rapidly falling off after hitting its peak. The gains we were seeing with the bolt on parts are at a higher RPM range. The gains in HP and Tq start at 3500 rpms and HP gains are consistently 20 WHP from 4000 rpms to red line. The Tq curve has flattened out quite a bit. If boost did not drop so drastically, I am sure we would see a VE similar to the Evo X motor where the TQ just stays flat and HP keeps climbing.
After the disappointment in the cat back and secondary cat delete dyno testing, I was confident that there was still a cork (or three) in the system and obviously I addressed those today. The difference in today's dyno testing was the prototype AMS down pipe, prototype AMS intercooler and prototype AMS intercooler piping. One (or all three) of these items freed up the HP I just knew was there.
Now before you say "well, that was ONLY 20 WHP", let me explain something else. As I have mentioned before, I believe that the Gen Coupe was not showing gains because we are not leaning on the car that hard. In stock form, this car is only rated at 210 crank HP. This is only 2/3ds of the Evo X rated crank HP. I have always had the opinion that if we were starting with 300 HP, the gains from bolt on parts would be more. Well........... just to prove this, I TURNED THE BOOST UP with the AMS bolt on parts!!! Here is the proof.
With the 100% bone stock car and no tuning at all, we were able to run a peak of 18 psi dropping to 12 psi at red line (before hitting boost cut). We made 204 WHP and 249 Lbs Tq. (SAE Corrected)
With the AMS prototype bolt on parts and no tuning at all, we also were able to run the exact same peak of 18 psi dropping to 12 psi by red line. We made an incredible 236 WHP and 237 Lbs Tq. Again, peak Tq does not show the full picture as it happens well before the gains from the AMS bolt on parts.
That is 32 WHP gains from just the AMS bolt on parts at this boost level!!!! This proves that the stock components are choking the motor and the more you turn the boost up, the more the stock components are going to rob power. Now imagine the gains you would get from the bolt on parts at 300 WHP!!!
I hope you can all see why I am excited now. If not, the dyno charts Chris will post should explain everything.
P.S. Uncorrected (ACTUAL) numbers today were 241 WHP and 243 Lbs Tq!!! __________________
Ivan
Special projects technician
AMSperformance.com
Tel. 847-709-0530
The fist thing Ivan did we re-baseline the car. In a effor to make sure our test results are always 100% accurate we always test, and retest our results to make sure that you can get the same power out of your car! Next on the to-do list was to put 93oct in the tank and run the car on the dyno again to see if it would learn itself some more power. On those 4 pulls there was no change.
Then Ivan decided to reset the ECU (disconnect the battery). After doing 4 more pulls, this end result was this:
It gained about 10whp from about 5500 RPMS to redline. There was no real, discernible difference other than that.
The next 3 three things he did dyno tests for are delete the silencer, deleted the 2nd catalytic converter with a test pipe in its place, and installed a prototype cat-back exhaust system. The runs are pictured below. As you can see there isn't really any difference between the runs. The difference in the peak numbers can be attributed to the standard variance that you will see from run to run anyways.
So far, our best bet has been to throw a boost controller on it and turn up the boost! We will be doing some more interesting stuff very shortly and we should have some very exciting things to show you guys in the near future!
-Chris __________________
Chris Black
-Tuner-
chris at amsperformance.com
Alright, I am going to spill the beans on today's dyno pulls, but you will have to wait till Monday for actual dyno charts. Chris will be posting them up as soon as he has time to go through them.
Our baseline dyno numbers on 93 octane fuel are 192 WHP and 219 lbs Tq (SAE corrected) with the 100% bone stock car, stock boost control and no tuning at all.
Today with JUST BOLT ON AMS prototype parts, we put down 212 WHP and 220 lbs Tq (SAE corrected) still on stock boost control and no tuning at all.
Well, the 20 WHP gain is quite nice but only 1 more lb of TQ??? What the hell am I so excited about (you might be asking)??? Well let me tell you. These are just PEAK numbers. To fully appreciate the gains you must see the dyno charts. With the stock turbo, you make peak Tq very low in the RPM range due to the boost rapidly falling off after hitting its peak. The gains we were seeing with the bolt on parts are at a higher RPM range. The gains in HP and Tq start at 3500 rpms and HP gains are consistently 20 WHP from 4000 rpms to red line. The Tq curve has flattened out quite a bit. If boost did not drop so drastically, I am sure we would see a VE similar to the Evo X motor where the TQ just stays flat and HP keeps climbing.
After the disappointment in the cat back and secondary cat delete dyno testing, I was confident that there was still a cork (or three) in the system and obviously I addressed those today. The difference in today's dyno testing was the prototype AMS down pipe, prototype AMS intercooler and prototype AMS intercooler piping. One (or all three) of these items freed up the HP I just knew was there.
Now before you say "well, that was ONLY 20 WHP", let me explain something else. As I have mentioned before, I believe that the Gen Coupe was not showing gains because we are not leaning on the car that hard. In stock form, this car is only rated at 210 crank HP. This is only 2/3ds of the Evo X rated crank HP. I have always had the opinion that if we were starting with 300 HP, the gains from bolt on parts would be more. Well........... just to prove this, I TURNED THE BOOST UP with the AMS bolt on parts!!! Here is the proof.
With the 100% bone stock car and no tuning at all, we were able to run a peak of 18 psi dropping to 12 psi at red line (before hitting boost cut). We made 204 WHP and 249 Lbs Tq. (SAE Corrected)
With the AMS prototype bolt on parts and no tuning at all, we also were able to run the exact same peak of 18 psi dropping to 12 psi by red line. We made an incredible 236 WHP and 237 Lbs Tq. Again, peak Tq does not show the full picture as it happens well before the gains from the AMS bolt on parts.
That is 32 WHP gains from just the AMS bolt on parts at this boost level!!!! This proves that the stock components are choking the motor and the more you turn the boost up, the more the stock components are going to rob power. Now imagine the gains you would get from the bolt on parts at 300 WHP!!!
I hope you can all see why I am excited now. If not, the dyno charts Chris will post should explain everything.
P.S. Uncorrected (ACTUAL) numbers today were 241 WHP and 243 Lbs Tq!!! __________________
Ivan
Special projects technician
AMSperformance.com
Tel. 847-709-0530
#70
04-12-2009, 02:20 AM
The engineers work QUICK! lol! We already have our first rapid prototype for test fitment
__________________
Eric G.
-Sales Manager-
Eric@amsperformance.com
AMSperformance.com
__________________Eric G.
-Sales Manager-
Eric@amsperformance.com
AMSperformance.com
#72
04-15-2009, 03:22 AM
Latest from AMS:
I am so tired yet so excited right now... All the hard work we have been putting in on the Gen Coupe is paying off.
For those that don't know, the Genesis Coupe could not have been released at a worse time for us at AMS. We are right in the middle of several major builds. We have the drag car clone build, the Blue Deamon TA / street car build, the TA Evo X in 10 weeks build and of course our own TA-X build all going on. In addition to prototyping the Ralliart parts, BMW 1/3/535i parts, the R35 GTR parts and keeping up on all of our already released parts. To say we are swamped is an understatement.
Anyway.... here is the kicker.... NONE of the Genesis Coupe R&D or testing has been done during normal business hours. To help keep things on schedule, we have been doing everything after hours and on weekends. I would like to personally thank Tony, Greg and Nick for all spending many many hours after work and multiple 12+ hour days on the weekend helping this get done.
Well, all the efforts are paying off. We just got the car off the dyno and are VERY pleased with the results. We have eliminated the "corks" in the system and found the HP we knew was there.
Today we tested:
AMS prototype down pipe / mid pipe
AMS prototype secondary cat delete
AMS prototype cat back exhaust
AMS prototype intake silencer delete
AMS prototype front mount intercooler
AMS prototype intercooler piping kit
AMS manual boost controller
Results to be posted very soon!!!!
__________________
Ivan
Special projects technician
AMSperformance.com
the lowest chart is the baseline
the middle chart is the bolt-ons with stock boost
the highest chart is the bolt-ons plus about 18psi of boost and no tuning!
For those that don't know, the Genesis Coupe could not have been released at a worse time for us at AMS. We are right in the middle of several major builds. We have the drag car clone build, the Blue Deamon TA / street car build, the TA Evo X in 10 weeks build and of course our own TA-X build all going on. In addition to prototyping the Ralliart parts, BMW 1/3/535i parts, the R35 GTR parts and keeping up on all of our already released parts. To say we are swamped is an understatement.
Anyway.... here is the kicker.... NONE of the Genesis Coupe R&D or testing has been done during normal business hours. To help keep things on schedule, we have been doing everything after hours and on weekends. I would like to personally thank Tony, Greg and Nick for all spending many many hours after work and multiple 12+ hour days on the weekend helping this get done.
Well, all the efforts are paying off. We just got the car off the dyno and are VERY pleased with the results. We have eliminated the "corks" in the system and found the HP we knew was there.
Today we tested:
AMS prototype down pipe / mid pipe
AMS prototype secondary cat delete
AMS prototype cat back exhaust
AMS prototype intake silencer delete
AMS prototype front mount intercooler
AMS prototype intercooler piping kit
AMS manual boost controller
Results to be posted very soon!!!!
__________________
Ivan
Special projects technician
AMSperformance.com
the lowest chart is the baseline
the middle chart is the bolt-ons with stock boost
the highest chart is the bolt-ons plus about 18psi of boost and no tuning!
#73
04-27-2009, 09:16 PM
My wife just bought one of these, a 2.0 Turbo. Its awesome! Now we have a 2009 Silver Fit Sport and this new Genesis Coupe sitting in the driveway.
#76
04-27-2009, 10:03 PM
It was like 24 something, but them we rolled like 1200 over. the sticker was 26 something. Hers has the premier package or what ever it is with the sunroof, power seat, automatic, etc. She didnt get the track package. It's still fast as hell and the pull of the turbo when you mash it is nice!!
#77
04-28-2009, 09:01 PM
just putting this out there. With the way how this car is responding to mods, hook up this thing to a build automatic trans. (modified stock or swap to a gm trans) and you have one nasty drag car on your hands.
#79
04-30-2009, 12:54 AM
More info:
I am going to apologize in advance for the length of this post, but please take the time to read through the entire post as there is a lot of useful information. I am also going to talk about Gen Coupe specific issues in the BOV system, the drive by wire system and some driveability.
First off, let me quickly go over the purpose of a BOV and how it works.
The purpose of the BOV is to relieve pressure from the IC and IC pipes when the throttle closes. If you do not relieve this pressure, it ends up backing out the turbo. This shocks the turbo by rapidly slowing it down. This not only hurts the turbo, but also hinders performance. Your turbo now has to spin up again (lag) to make boost once the throttle is reopened.
With a BOV, when the throttle closes, the BOV opens up and allows boost to escape without going back through the turbo. This allows the turbo to continue spinning without being shocked and when the throttle reopens, it needs to spin up less to make boost again.
I hope that all makes sense.
On the Gen Coupe, the BOV is installed in the compressor housing of the turbo. Not exactly the best place (performance wise) for a BOV... Traditionally, a BOV is installed closer to the throttle body. This keeps air from back tracking through the IC and IC piping as it expands and exits the BOV. Instead, it continues on its path towards the throttle body and does not have to waste energy reversing direction every time you open or close your throttle.
Normally a BOV's operation is strictly dictated by manifold pressure / vacuum versus pressure in the IC piping. A vacuum line connects the BOV to the intake manifold and under boost (wide open throttle), puts pressure on the valve keeping it closed. Under vacuum (closed throttle), it helps pull the valve open as boost in the piping pushes the valve open. On the Gen Coupe, this is NOT THE CASE!!
The Gen Coupe has a solenoid that actually controls BOV operation. There are three vacuum lines connected to the solenoid. One is T'd into the compressor housing and supplies boost, one goes to the vacuum reservoir on the intake manifold and the last goes to the BOV. The ECU controls the solenoid and therefore controls the BOV. This is why the BOV can open and cut boost when you run too much. This is not the ONLY reason that the BOV is ECU controlled...... If the BOV was only plumbed into the intake manifold, it would ONLY open when the throttle was closed. Well, we all know that on the Gen Coupe, the throttle hangs open when you let off the gas pedal. With the ECU control, the BOV can now be opened even if the throttle is still open and there is no vacuum in the intake manifold.
So the question is "Why the hell does the throttle not close when you let off the throttle?" Here is my theory. Trying to close the throttle body while under boost is going to put a strain on the electric motor and gears controlling the butterfly. As the throttle closes, boost tries to keep it open. This may strain the electric motor possibly causing issues with it and the gears. Now with the ECU controlling the BOV and the throttle body, when you let off the gas pedal, the ECU turns off the injectors which stops the engine from producing power, the ECU opens the BOV to relieve some pressure from the IC pipes and THEN the throttle is closed.
Here is something that supports my theory. When the car is cold and the ECU does not allow any boost to be made..... there is NO throttle hang. There would be no need for it to hang with no boost.
Here is another thing that also supports my theory. In our work with the BMW 1/3/535i turbocharged 3.0, we found that the ECU will NOT allow the throttle to open till there is no boost in the IC piping. BMW 3.0T owners put aftermarket BOVs on their cars to evacuate boost faster so the throttle opens sooner after a shift. The Gen Coupe 2.0T has a MAP sensor in the IC piping just like the BMW 3.0T. I was confused about this MAP sensor till Eric made this connection. The Gen Coupe does the same damn thing.
In my thread about taking my Coupe to the drag strip, I talk about how the faster I shifted, the more funky the throttle became. A quick shift resulted in a delay getting back into power. The quicker the shift, the more delay.
To test this theory, I made a hard pipe to replace soft hose between the throttle body and the factory hard pipe. I installed a Tial Q BOV in the new pipe to supplement the factory BOV. With this installed, the delay getting back into power after a fast shift was nearly eliminated!
At this point, I had the Tial Q plumbed into the vacuum port on the intake manifold. Plumbed like this, you could hear the factory BOV and the Tial Q open at different times. The factory BOV opens first (when the ECU commands it) using vacuum from the vacuum reservoir and then you hear the Tial when the throttle finally closes and the manifold goes into vacuum. This again supports my theory.
I am not done investigating the BOV and throttle issues yet. I still have some testing and data logging to do. Obviously we are going to work on figuring out the best solution to all the issues. I will keep you updated on the results of everything.
In closing, I will leave you with pictures of the prototype AMS BOV block off plate.
__________________
Ivan
Special projects technician
AMSperformance.com
First off, let me quickly go over the purpose of a BOV and how it works.
The purpose of the BOV is to relieve pressure from the IC and IC pipes when the throttle closes. If you do not relieve this pressure, it ends up backing out the turbo. This shocks the turbo by rapidly slowing it down. This not only hurts the turbo, but also hinders performance. Your turbo now has to spin up again (lag) to make boost once the throttle is reopened.
With a BOV, when the throttle closes, the BOV opens up and allows boost to escape without going back through the turbo. This allows the turbo to continue spinning without being shocked and when the throttle reopens, it needs to spin up less to make boost again.
I hope that all makes sense.
On the Gen Coupe, the BOV is installed in the compressor housing of the turbo. Not exactly the best place (performance wise) for a BOV... Traditionally, a BOV is installed closer to the throttle body. This keeps air from back tracking through the IC and IC piping as it expands and exits the BOV. Instead, it continues on its path towards the throttle body and does not have to waste energy reversing direction every time you open or close your throttle.
Normally a BOV's operation is strictly dictated by manifold pressure / vacuum versus pressure in the IC piping. A vacuum line connects the BOV to the intake manifold and under boost (wide open throttle), puts pressure on the valve keeping it closed. Under vacuum (closed throttle), it helps pull the valve open as boost in the piping pushes the valve open. On the Gen Coupe, this is NOT THE CASE!!
The Gen Coupe has a solenoid that actually controls BOV operation. There are three vacuum lines connected to the solenoid. One is T'd into the compressor housing and supplies boost, one goes to the vacuum reservoir on the intake manifold and the last goes to the BOV. The ECU controls the solenoid and therefore controls the BOV. This is why the BOV can open and cut boost when you run too much. This is not the ONLY reason that the BOV is ECU controlled...... If the BOV was only plumbed into the intake manifold, it would ONLY open when the throttle was closed. Well, we all know that on the Gen Coupe, the throttle hangs open when you let off the gas pedal. With the ECU control, the BOV can now be opened even if the throttle is still open and there is no vacuum in the intake manifold.
So the question is "Why the hell does the throttle not close when you let off the throttle?" Here is my theory. Trying to close the throttle body while under boost is going to put a strain on the electric motor and gears controlling the butterfly. As the throttle closes, boost tries to keep it open. This may strain the electric motor possibly causing issues with it and the gears. Now with the ECU controlling the BOV and the throttle body, when you let off the gas pedal, the ECU turns off the injectors which stops the engine from producing power, the ECU opens the BOV to relieve some pressure from the IC pipes and THEN the throttle is closed.
Here is something that supports my theory. When the car is cold and the ECU does not allow any boost to be made..... there is NO throttle hang. There would be no need for it to hang with no boost.
Here is another thing that also supports my theory. In our work with the BMW 1/3/535i turbocharged 3.0, we found that the ECU will NOT allow the throttle to open till there is no boost in the IC piping. BMW 3.0T owners put aftermarket BOVs on their cars to evacuate boost faster so the throttle opens sooner after a shift. The Gen Coupe 2.0T has a MAP sensor in the IC piping just like the BMW 3.0T. I was confused about this MAP sensor till Eric made this connection. The Gen Coupe does the same damn thing.
In my thread about taking my Coupe to the drag strip, I talk about how the faster I shifted, the more funky the throttle became. A quick shift resulted in a delay getting back into power. The quicker the shift, the more delay.
To test this theory, I made a hard pipe to replace soft hose between the throttle body and the factory hard pipe. I installed a Tial Q BOV in the new pipe to supplement the factory BOV. With this installed, the delay getting back into power after a fast shift was nearly eliminated!
At this point, I had the Tial Q plumbed into the vacuum port on the intake manifold. Plumbed like this, you could hear the factory BOV and the Tial Q open at different times. The factory BOV opens first (when the ECU commands it) using vacuum from the vacuum reservoir and then you hear the Tial when the throttle finally closes and the manifold goes into vacuum. This again supports my theory.
I am not done investigating the BOV and throttle issues yet. I still have some testing and data logging to do. Obviously we are going to work on figuring out the best solution to all the issues. I will keep you updated on the results of everything.
In closing, I will leave you with pictures of the prototype AMS BOV block off plate.
__________________Ivan
Special projects technician
AMSperformance.com
