i hate to admit it, but yeah, the new cobalt puts up some good numbers. now if they would only fix the interior.



on a different note, i think that the reason the ukdm type r gets so much beef is because its less like a type r (for us) than it is to them: they have no si, no type s. it jus so happens that this car can be more serious than our usdm si's, even if they are each markets equivalent car.

 

EDIT: ahh...screw it...

You tell me. You're the one who brought up the magazines...

And for the record, they're not the only ones who've actually driven it. You're assuming that because it's a Euro-specific model it hasn't made it anywhere else in the world.

No, you don't see Euro Magazines giving commentary on the USDM Si because they don't have it over there. But you DO see Euro magazines giving commentary on the JDM FD2, which they don't really have over there either.

Huh? People here didn't like the Si because we didn't get the Type-R? So instead of purchasing what's available, everyone whined about not getting what they think they wanted? So why do people put red badges on their cars? Personally, I find it an obomination, considering most of these people are the same people who scream "RICE!!!" if someone decides to put a neon strobe in their cupholder or a sticker on their window. The Honda community is full of hypocritical idiots. Take a look at any of these websties.

Out of curiosity, what, besides the platform, does the Fit's badge have anything to do with the Type-R? Anyone and everyone who knows any of these vehicles (or better yet, all of these vehicles) knows the FN2 is a watered down version of the red badge, used to sell more vehicles than of typical Type-R production. The fact of the matter is, it really should've been called the Type-S. A Type-R SHOULD have at least been equipped with the USDM K20Z1 (rated at 210hp) or DC5-R K20 (rated at 215hp) considering neither engine nor car is in production currently. A Type-R SHOULD have had the suspension should've been tuned more aggressively (choosing the correct geometry, rebound, compression, etc settings makes a world of a difference). Not trying to be a jackass, but I honestly don't understand your comparison.

Huh? Animal where? On the streets of Chicago? LA? NY? At intersections? Getting on entrance-ramps where low-end torque might be the difference to you squeezing into an opening in traffic between a semi and a Girl Scout's mother's Dodge Caravan or becoming an abstract piece of artwork of glass, metal, guts and jersey barrier?

Besides that, where is your information coming from? The K20Z3 makes it's peak torque at 6200RPM, not 7600RPM. The cam crossover is at 5800RPM. If I'm not mistaken, the FN2's crossover is 400RPM prior at 5400RPM, which obviously makes a difference in how the vehicles move. The K20Z3 makes 134lb. ft of torque measured at the wheels (remember, it's rated at 139lb. ft). Not only that, but it makes 85% of its torque at 2000RPM, something even the Mazdaspeed3 (at 20%) doesn't even do. The FN2 isn't quite THAT fantastically better than the FG2 as you seem to be suggesting.

Actually, by your logic, no it's not. By my logic, if the Civic Si could use the same 95RON unleaded fuel as the FN2, the numbers would practically overlap. The FN2 is tuned slightly for more low-end torque, but it doesn't matter if you're on a road course. Both are going to be in i-VTEC and power is moot, in which case it, once again, goes back to suspension tuning. And the FG2/FA5 clearly have the advantage because they've specifically been TUNED to perform that way (I'll disregard the LSD, since it doesn't come on the FN2, but even if it did, it still doesn't excuse the ridiculous understeer). Which brings me to:

The FN2 is tuned for comfort. IIRC it even says so in the press release (or the video that accompanied it). The 2008 Cobalt SS, which ALSO has a torsion beam suspension would CLEARLY outperform the Type-R, even where the road would upset the Type-Rs suspension. So, the FN2 still loses out to a vehicle that was actually tuned to be a competitive handling vehicle, unlike the FN2 which is neither Focus ST, nor Golf GTi in terms of handling. More specifically the Focus, which is still the benchmark of the segment. The FN2 also lacks steering feel. The bottom line is the FN2's suspension just isn't tuned as well to as the true performers in its class INCLUDING the FG2, which is a fairly common complaint leveled against it. As you've mentioned, it's not just the part, it's the APPLICATION.

Apparently you missed when this "obsessed honda guy" said:
but the Si will round the same track quicker.

Perhaps I should've clarified "round the track quicker" by saying "round the road course". Which, of course, brings me to:

Proof? It doesn't perform better than it's predecessor. Explain to me how that translates to a better vehicle than the one we get too.

EP3 vs. FN2: YouTube - Civic TypeR EP3 VS Civic TypeR FN2
Of particular interest, the above link addresses the "tacked on" accessories you mentioned the FD2 had.

Also, courtesy of Sportauto Edition:
Short track Hockenheim GP race track (same tires)
VW GTI 1:19.6min
Civic FN2 Type R 1:21.3min

SCC Comparison test GTI on lighter weight aftermarket wheels vs. SI on stock wheels...same sticky tires.
Granted these are two different courses, but it really doesn't even matter.

Again, proof? Quite frankly, I am far too lazy to bother posting up times. Feel free to browse "the website that shalt not be mentioned". There are plenty of people who'll vouch for a 6.7-6.8.

So how's the "half-second advantage" as you claim, significant? Was it not you who JUST said:

? I thought Honda's trait lay in its handling prowess, not outright acceleration? Look up the times. Not trying to be an ass (althought that's certainly a matter of opinion I could really care less about), but that's your writing, not mine.

Anyhoo, Honda ain't bringing the Type-R to the states and if you want to see one (or two) FD2s come to HIN: Chantilly in VA 4/19, or HIN: Boston 4/26. I may decide to go to HIN: Chicago in May but it'll probably be at the Eibach meet 5/18, instead. One might even be for sale. See ya'll there.

 

i was just going to mention this.

JDM CTR sedan > EDM CTR hatch

a USDM RSX-S isn't too much slower than an ITR. you'd be better off picking up a used RSX and tuning it up.

 

AHAHAHA this forum is so funny, the FD2 craps all over the euro hatch, and ALL stock FWDs for that matter... it beats the s2k, 350z, only the NSX is faster then it....

2007 Nissan 350Z vs. Honda NSX vs. Civic type R vs - Video

 

I don't think the 8th gen type-r will be coming to north america but the version after that might. I mean obviously there is a market for it. Look at nissan bringing the new GTR over. People want these cars.

 

JDM one for me also, the euro one is seriously ugly :(

 

The Civic Type R was track tested head to head vs the older Civic Si on Top Gear and they liked the old version much better. And they didn't like the rear spoiler blocking the rear window at all.

Styling wise the JDM Civic is much much better.

No loss if the Euro Civic Type R never arrives.

 

Finally! Someone else shares the same opinion on "JDM" badges as I. It's funny how people call them "JDM" badges instead of what they should be called, "Type-R" badges. 'Cause if they called them that then they would look silly for putting them on their cars.


Back on topic: Go FD2!

 

+1 for you for being logical. lol

Hey, come see one at HIN this month! :)

 

RDS:


phew. I didn't realize i hit such a sore spot on you.


if i remember correctly, we were just discussing differences, and i need not remind you i realize which is the better machine.

And while the ukdm type r isn't worlds different than our si, to me, its mechanically and physically different enough to merit something other than 'Its just a usdm si hatchback.'. Plain and simple man. its obvious you love the fd2.

But give a guy a break for prefering something different! i personally got some of my info off of wikipedia, but you more than welcome to edit it if its wrong. A lot of euro magazines that i have read have praised it, and again, it didn't take hot hatch of the year for nothing. it must be doing something right. I could post up a plethora of youtube videos and and online articles as well, but i'm not that juvenile...there is no prize to be won, and i could care less about who is 'right' as this wasn't even started as an opinon thread.


again, i never said it was superior to the fd2.


i could pick your post apart as you have done, (you obviously have more time on your hands than i do, and i'm tired, and at work, and craving a burger.), but i simply don't see the need to, as i have dealt with peeps like you before, and anything i say will probably get misconstrued further. (i.e. insinutating i was contradicting myself when i mentioned a half second advantage in the uk type r's 0-60 being significant, when i had said earlier that honda guys should be about the handling. why the extreme comparison? saying that doesn't make me a quarter mile whore and you know it, but if it aids in your nit-picking, then so be it, why would someone like you pass it up?)


your right, the honda scene is full of less than stellar folks. go against or have an opinion that favors anything other than 'jdm' and you are in for it.

i'll take my type r badges too thank you very much. ;)

 

if you find them silly, they are silly regardless of what people call them.

 

I find them silly in the sense that they were designed to designate a car as being a Type-R, but now people just call them JDM badges instead of what they really are and put them on any Honda they can find. Even on cars like a Fit which don't even have a Type-R model. But on the same hand these people will go around and yell at other people who put Si badges on an EX, which is in essence doing the same exact thing. Calling the badges Type-R or JDM doesn't really make it any different, at the end of the day it's still a badge designated for a Type-R vehicle.

I don't really care if people do it, it's their car and they have a right to do whatever they want to it. The only time it really bugs me is when people who do toss the Type-R badges on their car then go around and yell "Rice!" at other people.

 

I was going to send you a PM, but I'd like to do this publicly.

You didn't really hit a sore spot, but I really and truly do sincerely apologize. It's been a really crappy week. I thought 3 of my cars were stolen in Miami, where they weren't even supposed to be flown to and hadn't heard from my boss since Sunday. I thought something might've happened to him down there, but he called this morning and let me know the cars were safe and that he was okay. It's a really long convoluted story how they ended u down there, but I'm also waiting on two Fits to be delivered. That too has taken over a week mainly because somebody said they left the factory when they in fact did NOT leave the factory. *sigh* I need a drink. But I don't drink. Maybe some pineapple ice cream. Mmm....

So again, my apologies, good sir.

Back on topic. :)

 

I should make a new thread....

 

Spend the Greens $$ and make a type R fit instead.

 

i dont know it has been said before but the japanese civic type r looks just like the mugen edition civic si, but will probably be at least 5k more on the sticker price in america. and the euro type r looks like a beefed up peugeot 206. if i had the money and had the power to choose witch one was brought to america id vote for this one...

 

If you convert the MSRP of the Type-R from Yen to Dollars it works out to be around $27,000 IIRC; Which actually puts it cheaper than the Mugen Si. It would still be worth it, IMO, to go for 35k.

 

I would take the jdm type-R over the euro type-R any day, but i still love the design of the Euro version!
You have to see it live to really appreciate it!

 

Not exactly. The dollar has fallen further. Converted when it was released, the car equalled about $25,000USD. The price right now equals roughly around $30K before it's brought over. Then you're looking at taxes, fees, paperwork, shipping costs, warehouse fees, etc. That in itself runs another $5,000-8,000USD depending on who you go through.

We were fortunate enough to bring in the JDM-Rs for $25,500USD, but we're not doing it anymore.

 

You'd have to wait til 09 since all 300 of the 08s sold out in 10 minutes. ;)

This is $10K more than the USDM Mugen Civic Si, but it's a far better deal, despite the price.