Downshifting in the Fit
#24
Long answer: With driving experience, the want becomes a need. The more in-tune you become with your car, the more customized/personalized (preferences) your driving habits become. Then the habit becomes a reflex with whatever the road condition presents.
Mpg, wear and tear, is another story which is a by-product of driving habits and proper maintenance or lack of. Just my take.
#25
I learned to drive up through the gears and drive down through them as well. I still do, for the most part. Just not as sporty as I could most of the time. You gt to 'feel' the shift points and the torque available after while. It's a nice way to drive - zen like.
#26
no real need but i like to use engine braking vs my brakes whenever appropriate. some folks who dont know how to drive MT will argue that engine braking will cause premature wear on the clutch, but that's because they dont know how to rev match.
i usually coast in 3rd gear down a hill or coming to a stop (unless i know im going to accelerate i will use 2nd gear).
i usually coast in 3rd gear down a hill or coming to a stop (unless i know im going to accelerate i will use 2nd gear).
And brake pads are way cheaper than transmission, so that it is why I use brakes to brake. Downshifting in passenger cars to slow down is not recommended, unless you race or do some other crazy stuff and are not concerned with car's service longevity.
#27
Sounds like you folks suck at rev matching or just shifting in general.
I downshift to engine brake all day, in every car I've ever owned.
I have a 20 year old stock transmission from a car rated to 195HP/205TQ SAE Net that I put a total of 70k miles on while attached to several engines making north of 400WTQ.
I've had a stock engine/stock trans/clutch that I beat like it owed me money for 130k and the only thing that ever failed on it was a shift cable.
My GD3 is going strong at 34k with several track days on it, multiple extended spirited drives (>1 hour) and general stop/go rush hour BS.. yet the oil that came out when I did the change at 32k looked just as you'd expect.
If the synchros/sprockets go out, that's your fault. Especially the gears themselves, if you are stripping teeth you need to get an auto and never bother with anything that has a clutch.
I've only ever sheared the teeth off gears under excessive power and heat. Even then it was 4th gear that ate the dust after an anti-lag'd shift under 40psi boost on a full bore pull.. Hardly a gear used to engine brake often.
Lrn2shft, kthxbai
I downshift to engine brake all day, in every car I've ever owned.
I have a 20 year old stock transmission from a car rated to 195HP/205TQ SAE Net that I put a total of 70k miles on while attached to several engines making north of 400WTQ.
I've had a stock engine/stock trans/clutch that I beat like it owed me money for 130k and the only thing that ever failed on it was a shift cable.
My GD3 is going strong at 34k with several track days on it, multiple extended spirited drives (>1 hour) and general stop/go rush hour BS.. yet the oil that came out when I did the change at 32k looked just as you'd expect.
If the synchros/sprockets go out, that's your fault. Especially the gears themselves, if you are stripping teeth you need to get an auto and never bother with anything that has a clutch.
I've only ever sheared the teeth off gears under excessive power and heat. Even then it was 4th gear that ate the dust after an anti-lag'd shift under 40psi boost on a full bore pull.. Hardly a gear used to engine brake often.
Lrn2shft, kthxbai
Last edited by DiamondStarMonsters; 10-05-2011 at 01:00 AM.
#29
?
The point is if the input shaft and the crank are within ~100rpm at engagement as you finish blipping the throttle and THEN start to load up the engine while wiping speed with the brakes... the clutch, gearbox and rotors/pads will be no worse for the wear.
You will also shed speed very quickly.
The footwork is basically clutch-gas-clutch-brake.
The point is if the input shaft and the crank are within ~100rpm at engagement as you finish blipping the throttle and THEN start to load up the engine while wiping speed with the brakes... the clutch, gearbox and rotors/pads will be no worse for the wear.
You will also shed speed very quickly.
The footwork is basically clutch-gas-clutch-brake.
#30
Not the clutch, you wear out the transmission sprockets.
And brake pads are way cheaper than transmission, so that it is why I use brakes to brake. Downshifting in passenger cars to slow down is not recommended, unless you race or do some other crazy stuff and are not concerned with car's service longevity.
And brake pads are way cheaper than transmission, so that it is why I use brakes to brake. Downshifting in passenger cars to slow down is not recommended, unless you race or do some other crazy stuff and are not concerned with car's service longevity.
#31
That being said... maybe I should start practicing it.
#32
The way I see it for myself... because engine braking isn't something I practice on a regular basis... if I panic, I won't have the presence of mind to do so. I'd just slam on the brakes and pray to all the "Gods" of all the religions (which ever hears me) that whatever happens... is kept to a minimum.
That being said... maybe I should start practicing it.
That being said... maybe I should start practicing it.
Last edited by Subie; 10-05-2011 at 03:26 AM.
#33
A whole lot of confusion exists regarding shifting.
Under 'typical daily driving circumstances' a gentle well executed down shift while coming to a stop, and allowing that downshift to slow the car is perfectly acceptable, and with a tuned exhaust 'sweet music'. Allowing a lower gear selection to hold the car back is also in the mix.
Wear and tear on the 'parts' is minimal at best.
Abusive downshifts can lead to damage, however, both to the 'parts' and to driving stability.
Skill is in the understanding of why and when you should down shift.
The given rule is brake first, then down shift.
When you NEED to stop it's all in the brakes.
This is from the renowned performance coach and race car driver Ross Bentley.
Here's the hot skinny: SHIFTING TECHNIQUES
Under 'typical daily driving circumstances' a gentle well executed down shift while coming to a stop, and allowing that downshift to slow the car is perfectly acceptable, and with a tuned exhaust 'sweet music'. Allowing a lower gear selection to hold the car back is also in the mix.
Wear and tear on the 'parts' is minimal at best.
Abusive downshifts can lead to damage, however, both to the 'parts' and to driving stability.
Skill is in the understanding of why and when you should down shift.
The given rule is brake first, then down shift.
When you NEED to stop it's all in the brakes.
Proper downshifting is a must for extracting the full potential
of your car. It is not easy - it requires timing, skill and
practice - but once mastered, smoothness and improved
car control will result. It is also something you can practice
every time you get behind the wheel.
of your car. It is not easy - it requires timing, skill and
practice - but once mastered, smoothness and improved
car control will result. It is also something you can practice
every time you get behind the wheel.
Here's the hot skinny: SHIFTING TECHNIQUES
#35
Well put KC and good READ - your reference material. I hope the younger and less experienced drivers take note and make the time to read it. Young and inexperience don't always go together but most of the time they do.
In the whole process of downshifting, rev-matching (blipping) is vital and cannot be overemphasized as it relates to all the after-effects that follow - stability and control, engine/powertrain load, nose-diving, parts wear and tear, etc.
And like most anything else, with practice, the process can be 2nd nature, instinctive.
In the whole process of downshifting, rev-matching (blipping) is vital and cannot be overemphasized as it relates to all the after-effects that follow - stability and control, engine/powertrain load, nose-diving, parts wear and tear, etc.
And like most anything else, with practice, the process can be 2nd nature, instinctive.
#37
Not the clutch, you wear out the transmission sprockets.
And brake pads are way cheaper than transmission, so that it is why I use brakes to brake. Downshifting in passenger cars to slow down is not recommended, unless you race or do some other crazy stuff and are not concerned with car's service longevity.
And brake pads are way cheaper than transmission, so that it is why I use brakes to brake. Downshifting in passenger cars to slow down is not recommended, unless you race or do some other crazy stuff and are not concerned with car's service longevity.
This type of thinking is usually heard from old folks or folks that have not worked on modern cars in the last 5-10yrs.. are you old?