My '08 base model loses almost all front end grip in the wet in corners. It wants to plow straight ahead instead of making the turn. Also, it's a cinch to break the front tires loose with the throttle in a wet turn. The OEM Dunlops (cooked within 12k mi.) and my current Michelin Exaltos (good tires) are the same in this regard.


What's the fix? Alignment? Tire selection? At the first sign of rain, the car becomes a fun death trap. Too much fun to sell; too deathy to leave as is.


Thanks.


P.S. I searched "front end plowing" and "understeer" and got nuthin'.



MODS: Sorry. I looked for, but did not see that we do, indeed, have a Suspension Forum. You may wish to move this.

 

What pressure and tire size are you running?

Also, can you be a little more specific please on what goes on when the understeer happens? Like what kind of steering and throttle inputs are you using when entering and mid-corner for example.

Its easy to come in too hot (fast) into a turn in the wet and experience understeer as well as break the drive tires loose from a standing start since those two can provide only so much grip for going forward and turning if you're in an intersection (same goes for braking).

 

It is absolutly normal, all modern cars (other than sport oriented) are designed to have understeer because if you lose control, well at least you'll come to a stop (wheels that deliver the power can't do it anymore...) this is stupid for better drivers, but i guess that for bad drivers, it's a good thing...

Adding a progress RSB would give you something more neutral... or swapping springs with softer in front and stiffer in rear... or bracing the front (front strut bar, lower tie bar, inner fender brace)

 

Thanks, Hootie. I'm running stock tire sizes (175/65R14) at stock pressures (32 psi).

In best case scenarios — entering turns smoothly, with no change in speed to upset the suspension — there is loss of front end grip at any but the most cautious speeds. This happens only in the wet. Tire adhesion in the dry is acceptable.

Hope that helps.


Thanks, cr4zy. This may be normal for the Fit — it is for mine — but it ain't normal for most cars. The car is plowing in wet turns. By "plowing," I mean loss of adhesion and sliding in a straight line, instead of turning into the corner. Like on a freeway on ramp. There ought to be some kind of adjustment for this. I'm thinking alignment.

 

One little problem with SoCal...

Because it doesn't rain often, there can be a build up on the road that makes it VERY slick at the beginning of any rainstorm. Having lived in SD for 4 years, it amazed me that people just refuse to slow down in the rain. Time and again, the moment it rained, the accident count would skyrocket with people ending up backwards if they're lucky... and well, I'm sure you can imagine the unlucky ones. I'd always be cautious for a bit, then once it has rained a while, I get up to full speed (as if it were dry) and not once even hinted at losing traction.

Try your Fit again after it has rained a while... and see if its any different.

I've accidentally broken traction in the Fit less than when I was driving the Pathfinder here in Chicago area.

BTW, what exactly do you consider "cautious" speeds? Some people blow 70 in a 35 and consider 65 as cautious... while others refuse to pass 25 in a 35.

 

If you don't have enough toe in the slightest amount of standing water will have you losing traction even while going in a straight line at 30 MPH.... The bad thing about a rear anti-sway bar is that all four tires are going to let go at the same time... If you apply power to drive out of it you get more underr steer if you back of of the throttle the ass end will come on around on you.

 

Marrk, try one or more of these suggestions:
1) stickier, wider front tires / narrower rear tires
2) higher front psi / lower rear psi (I am running 30 front/25 rear)
3) rear swaybar / disconnect front swaybar (a tip from member "mahout")
4) softer springs up front / stiffer rear springs
5) slow down / drive smoother

BTW, take a look at what Tirerack has to say.

 

Thanks, Buddy. Good information. Consider it "bookmarked."

Over the last three years, I've experimented with tire pressures ranging from 30 to 45 psi., without noticing any difference in understeer. I had my first and only blowout in thirty years with the Dunlops at 45 psi . . . but they were crap tires.

For the moment, I'll go back to playing with the tire pressures and see if I can't dial out some of the understeer. It's raining nice here in L.A. at the moment, so it's a good time to run some "field tests." If you don't here back from me, you'll know I got it wrong and went over the side of a canyon.

 

I'm thinking driver mod here.

The basics: Brake in a straight line until you are at a speed that you can carry through the corner while off-throttle, the slowly release brake as, or before you turn in, and carry the momentum through the turn while your foot is off the gas. There should be none, or very little throttle input, depending on the situation.

Then power on smoothly once you are more straightened out, and the front wheel is past the apex or the corner (innermost part of the middle of the curve.)

Coast through those turns - don't involve the gas as much!

Not trying to say anyone doesn't know - but for the lurkers and whatnot. The basics of driving are hardly talked about on any forums.

 

^ Thats pretty much what I'm thinking here as well. Great explanation on cornering basics by the way.

Well I'd try start with the cheapest route and work my way up, similar macbuddy mentioned concept that.

First, I'd try driving slower in wet conditions and use smoother throttle and steering inputs when in stop-and-go traffic. Like Goobers said, the road surfaces are always slick when it begins raining due to all of the road grime, oils, and more being washed away. Its easy to experience wheel slip from a stop in a Fit for the reason I previously stated as well as having an open differential; which allows the inside tire to spin thus inducing understeer.

Second, I'd check out the toe both front and rear (assuming the tire pressure is correct). The specs are in the 2008 Fit owners manual on page 245 and the front the toe is dead straight (0 in other words) and in the rear its 0.10 inches (2.5mm). If they are not within plus or minus 0.02 inches (0.508mm) for their axles go out and get it aligned, then see if it makes any difference.

Third, if the two previous things didn't work out try changing your tire pressure. The 175/65R14s have a fairly large sidewall that allows plenty of flex during cornering. So, changing your pressure should change the behavior of the tire's flex. Adding pressure stiffens the tire (less flex), removing pressure softens the tire (more flex).

Fourth, if that doesn't work try swapping for some 195/55R15s. Yes, this is much more expensive than swapping springs or adding a sway bar but you would not be compromising drivabilty by lowering (ground clearance wise) nor will you have to worry about off throttle oversteer in the wet with a rear sway bar like Progress's 22mm bar. However, you would be increasing your car's contact patch by 20mm and reducing the size of the tire's sidewall. The less sidewall a tire has, the less the flex in the tire.

Hope this helps.

 

Marrk,

This should shed some light on the Exaltos in the wet:

Tires : Test Results : The Tire Rack

The wet may be their weak spot compared to their dry performance.

From the picture they look slightly directional. Did they get mounted in the right direction to shed water?

John

 

My guess is the OP is just plain driving too fast for the conditions. Given reasonably good tires and some common sense there should not be any understeer. But then I am old so what do I know after 53 years of driving eh.

 

+rep for this post
i'm just guessing but this probably explains why he blew through the dunlops in just 12k miles.

disclaimer
keep it on a track and not on public roads. i've been rear ended, sideswiped, and avoided too many accidents from people who think a trip to the grocery store is a time trial

+rep for this post as well.
in SoCAL everybody complains about people who drive too slow in the rain but those who drive too fast are almost never mentioned. just because you can accelerate like you're on dry pavement doesn't mean you can always stop as fast in an emergency situation.

ninjaedit -- ff.net won't let me rep you till i spread the rep around first, facepalm.jpg

 

get new tires, i run bridgestone fusion tires. grips very well in the wet.

also note that the car has an open diff, so you need to be gentle when you're exiting your turn. if you start to run out of space while turning, remember that the e-brake is your secondary steering control.

 

What? You mean I shouldn't be using the throttle to change lanes?

Pfft e-brake? Just let off the gas completely and abruptly to throw the ass end around!

I really want an mFactory LSD and some stiffer rear coils...

 

I've got the Honda Accessory wheels (16-inchers) on my '07 Sport with 205/50ZR16 Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2 tires...I also have the Mugen 5-way adjustable suspension and the Progress rear sway bar. For one, I have trouble making my Pilot Exaltos hydroplane! Those are excelent tires. With the sway bar in, my Honda is tail happy. It over stears just about all the time. I also have the SPC camber bolts up front and the taper shims in the rear. I got my front end dialed in to zeros for the toe and camber and I have the rear set to -0.5 camber and zero toe. I have found that setting the rear to 0.1 degrees toe in gives a lot better transition from steight line to corner...ie the tail is not as loose in the transition point.
Oh, and I'm running 32.5-psi up front and 30.0-psi in the rear...

 

man, are you a f-king idiot?

 

Everyone knows wheel hop is good for open diffs! Haha