THIS shows first a heel-and-toe (rev-match while braking), and later a heel-and-toe double-clutch (rev-match in neutral while braking)

YouTube - Heel Toe Driving Technique


i started double-clutching in my old sentra se-r because the 1st gear synchronizer was bum (if it had one at all). i use above techniques in my s2000 because the car feels much more raw and direct and is very much rewarding when performed correctly and smoothly. i rarely use them on the Fit because the inputs are very dampened and the feedback is very muted, and the generally easy going nature of the car gets me driving slow

 

How are gear ranges determined for a particular car? For example, the manual for my 2010 Fit recommends that I shift to 2nd at 15mph and to 3rd at 27mph so does 15-27mph represent the "theoretical" gear range for 2nd gear? In going from 3rd back to 2nd, whether I rev match or not, where should I be in the range before I shift down?

 

Your owners manual is recommending optimum shift points with fuel economy in mind. Assuming you've actually driven your own car, you should know that you can definitely go beyond those speeds in each of those gears. You'll just need to learn through trial-and-error. I don't own a Fit, so I couldn't say at what rpm you'll need to be at, but it's not hard to figure out. For example, reach 35 mph in 2nd gear. Note the rpm that you're at, then shift into 3rd. So if you wanted to rev-match back into 2nd at that speed, the rpms will need to be roughly what they were before you shifted. Don't focus too much on matching the exact rpm as much as the throttle input you'll need to give, since you'll need to be able to do it at various speeds in different gears. In my Evo, I don't really go by what rpm I need to be at as much as how much throttle I know I need to give the car for the rev-match to be smooth. Similarly, you don't necessarily base your upshifts on specific rpms; you do it when you feel you should shift.

 

Deez, I've been driving the Fit for about 4 months now. I'm still more focused on mph than rpm, but I do try to keep rpms between 2-3K. In rev matching don't you try first to move into the gear (speed) range for the gear you're going into? If I'm going from 3rd to 2nd shouldn't I be downshifting somewhere in the 15-27 mph range? (I accidentally included this in the old thread. I've started a new one).

 

You're making it more complicated than you need to. There's not really a "range" that you have to be in before trying to downshift/rev-match. Unless you're at full speed in top gear, then you can do it.

In the scenario you mentioned (going from 3rd to 2nd), you don't have to be at a certain speed, really. In regular driving, then I suppose that speed range would be about right, but if you're doing some spirited driving, then you might be downshifting at a higher speed but in the same gears.

 

Deez, sounds like your focus is rpms. If I take the Fit out tonight on a long straight stretch and get a reading of the rpms in 2nd, are you saying that I could go up to 4th and then rev match back to 2nd as long as I matched the 2nd gear reading (without regard to speed)?

 

Yes, but I don't recommend skipping gears like that (unless you did intend to rev-match into 3rd between the gears). You shouldn't really skip gears into 2nd since it's usually not called for, plus I've noticed that doing a perfect rev-match into 2nd can sometimes be tougher than the other gears, especially if you're going to skip.

Personally, the ONLY situation I can think of that would make me want to skip from 4th (or higher) to 2nd is if I happened to be driving and accelerating normally and am in that gear, then I randomly feel the need to get as much acceleration as possible (assuming that I'm at a speed that doesn't exceed 2nd gear's MAXIMUM rpm, which varies from car to car), like if a Porsche happens to fly by and I want to play with it. Then I'll shift into 2nd... maybe. In most other situations, like slowing down to a stop or slowing down before a corner, I'll rev-match one gear at a time.

 

I think a few hours on managing the transmission in a Honda Rebel would do you a world of good. On a motorcycle, there is no way to know what gear you are in (unless you constantly keep tabs like a card counter), and many motorcycles, especially cruisers, don't have tachs. Stop watching your gauges. Put a piece of cardboard over the them (if you think you can avoid speeding, that is).

When driving a manual, you have three gears:

A - A gear that is too tall - it will leave the engine lugging if you give it more gas, and perhaps if you are maintaining speed.

B - The right gear

C- A gear that is shorter than you need - the sound of the engine running too high is the usual clue.


If you are lugging (engine isn't giving you much response to the throttle other than shuddering and grumbling), shift from A to B, i.e. one gear lower

If you are running smoothly, it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If you are slowing down, you'll reach that lugging speed. B has become A. Shift back to B.

If you place a greater load on the engine due to a hill, B has become A, shift back to B.

If you need to pass, or need to accelerate quickly, shift to C until the need is satisfied, and back to B.

It's that simple. How many people learned to drive stick in VW's with no tach?

An automatic transmission does the same thing... give the throttle a good kick, and you'll actuate the kickdown cable, and knock the engine down a gear. Slow down, and it will shift down rather than lug. Get up to speed and stabilize at, say 55, and it will not need the extra torque and shift to overdrive.

That's it. The tach is mainly there to look pretty.

 

i think romulus shouldve stuck to the AT

 

yah, although the tach is good for visual reference you need to train your feel. you just need to gain experience like learning a musical instrument. you wont learn this in 4months. you will get good by 1st year, much better by 2nd year, 2nd nature afterwards if you've experimented enough. this includes heel and toe shifting.

i have like this virtual engine rpm meter in my head. i dont have to look at the tach or hear the engine to know about wat rpm i need to be at to engage smoothly because of redundance. did it so many maybe hundreds of thousands of times i just know it by heart.

but even so, on a bad day i will get an abrupt shift to wake me up. hahaha.

GL with your training and be smooth.

 

Believe it of not, watching the tach will not improve, or help you learn, your shifting.

My suggestion is to cover the dang thing and simply learn to drive it. Not every manual transmission car has a tach - not hardly. It isn't going to tell you anything more than your ears will tell you AND it distracts you from what you need to learn - what gear is appropriate for what speed you want to be going and how fast you want things to happen.

Practice does make it near perfect.

If I really wanted ALL my shifts to be smooth as silk I would not have been driving manuals all these years. Figuring it out and driving it is ALL the fun.

My understanding of this thread is that it's concerned with normal every day driving techniques. Don't confuse the issue, it really isn't that hard.

K_C_

 

Nah, he'll get it. It's hard for me to relate to going from AT to MT - I learned to drive in an MT, and in 14 years of driving, have only had an automatic for about 18 mos. It took me some time to get comfortable enough with automatic shifting to trust them in traffic.

 

I completed my first rev match last night. I can see why they call it "blipping" the gas. Not a very precise thing is it? Do you try to actually match the lower gear rpms or do you just aim for the same mark like 3K?

 

it is a precise input once you get the hang of it.

 

Blips is good. It's amazing exactly how precise it becomes. Think of any motor sport simply blip-ping along at extraordinary speeds.

I BLIP my FIT

 

The slow throttle response make rev match harder in the fit than other older cars.

 

Blipping the throttle is far easier on a motorcycle. You already have your hand on the throttle which braking - you just tap it with your palm. In a car, it's very difficult to heel -toe with your knees splayed around the wheel.

 

This is exactly what threw me back into a shifting learning curve on my FIT. Old throttles where much more responsive, however, in spite of the EPA's concerns we can still get it down.

 

really light clutch, dead feel (dbw), throttle lag (heavy flywheel?) = dont even bother in the fit

 

An electronic throttle controller from Panson will cure the response and lag problems with the throttle, even with the stock flywheel and Polaski's throttle fix will stiffen the pedal... The light clutch doesn't bother me but the overly soft brake pedal makes serious heel toe driving out of the question for my size 13 feet and 36" inseam.... I wonder if adding a return spring to the clutch and brake would help?