General Fit Talk General Discussion on the Honda Fit/Jazz.

Help me understand automatic transmissions

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  #1  
Old 06-17-2010 | 10:33 PM
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Help me understand automatic transmissions

I've only own manual transmission cars.

If i'm on the highway and get off the gas pedal what happens in the tranny? Does it goto neutral? Is the load put on the tranny where the gas is shut off?

If i'm braking from 30mph to a stop light, during this breaking period does it go into neutral? Would I stop faster if I put into neutral while braking?
 
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Old 06-17-2010 | 10:39 PM
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After some reading, there's this "torque converter" and this is where the power is lost vs automatics.

So what happens whenever I hit the brakes? Does the torque converter move away from transmission?
 
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Old 06-18-2010 | 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by mxl180
I've only own manual transmission cars.

If i'm on the highway and get off the gas pedal what happens in the tranny? Does it goto neutral? Is the load put on the tranny where the gas is shut off?

If i'm braking from 30mph to a stop light, during this breaking period does it go into neutral? Would I stop faster if I put into neutral while braking?
It stays in overdrive till 20mph or so and uses the energy from forward motion and converter lockup like a manual to cut off fuel 0 fuel used until you give it gas or go below 20 mph then it coasts like in neutral.

No you would not stop faster in neutral, you would pickup a little speed and dont have the engine break to stop you. You will wear out brakes real fast.
 
  #4  
Old 06-18-2010 | 01:36 AM
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It's designed to be put in drive and left alone. Put in S and play with your paddels.
 
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Old 06-18-2010 | 01:39 AM
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I notice putting in S and paddles.... if I break slow it starts downshifting in gears and I feel the slight jerk.

When you use Paddles... do you downshift the paddles as your slowing down into the stop light?
 
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Old 06-18-2010 | 01:57 AM
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When slowing down or braking, the engine is given enough fuel to keep it from stalling. The transmission is still engaged, which is how you get the engine braking. If you pay close attention, you can feel the transmission downshifting as you slow down. One way to 'watch' what's happening is to put the car into "S" mode. Shift as necessary when speeding up. Then when you start slowing down, you can see the indicator (next to the fuel gauge) start to change as you slow down.

The Fit seems to have a different Torque Converter design than my previous cars. This must be what Honda listed as a Variable Torque Converter on the window sticker. From what I can tell, the transmission uses its 'gears' (clutches) while accelerating moderately to heavily. This is how traditional automatics work. While accelerating gently or cruising it engages the torque converter mode that's similar to the closest gear for the speed. The torque converter doesn't have the 'slippage' that a regular gear mode would, which increases torque and fuel economy. The gear modes, such as first gear, have slippage so you can stop the car while in gear without killing the engine.

I read that the new Fiesta will have an electrically actuated transmission, which means its clutches are electrically activated, instead of hydraulically. Why they wanted to do this, I don't know. They must see some benefit.

Stopping an automatic car in neutral isn't any different than stopping a manual car with the clutch pedal held down. If anything, the automatic car should have brakes that last longer because of engine braking at every stop.
 

Last edited by BraytonAK; 06-18-2010 at 02:00 AM.
  #7  
Old 06-18-2010 | 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by BraytonAK
I read that the new Fiesta will have an electrically actuated transmission, which means its clutches are electrically activated, instead of hydraulically. Why they wanted to do this, I don't know. They must see some benefit.
One of the main reasons that auto trannies usually get fewer MPGs is the additional power sucked up by the hydraulic pressure pump that's constantly running whenever the car is running. The hydraulics engage/disengage the clutches, etc.

I see the advantage of electrical actuation in that you're only using power when a clutch is actually being moved in or out of engagement. Less power used = more MPGs.
 
  #8  
Old 06-18-2010 | 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by BraytonAK
Stopping an automatic car in neutral isn't any different than stopping a manual car with the clutch pedal held down. If anything, the automatic car should have brakes that last longer because of engine braking at every stop.
stopping AT in neutral is similar to stopping a MT in neutral, not clutch-in.

if one knows how to 'drive' MT they will properly rev match and downshift, use engine braking to aid in the braking. MT brakes should last longer than AT because AT relies more on the brakes due to lower pressure in the torque converter resulting in less connection with the actual gear it is in.

AT is sort of engaged while there is centriputal force from the engine to accelerate the car, but once the throttle is let off there is not much connection between the drive gear and tires due to the lower pressure inside the torque converter. this is why AT cars coasts forever when you let off the throttle vs MT cars. MT cars you are 100% in gear when a gear is selected and clutch-out state.

the reason newer sportier cars are trying to use more electronic-clutch AT's is because mainly for this reason...so the driver input is connected to the tires, not just to the torque converter for a more enjoyable driving experience... sounds like a marketing campaign. if you want true driving experience, get a MT.
 
  #9  
Old 06-18-2010 | 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by kenchan
stopping AT in neutral is similar to stopping a MT in neutral, not clutch-in.

if one knows how to 'drive' MT they will properly rev match and downshift, use engine braking to aid in the braking. MT brakes should last longer than AT because AT relies more on the brakes due to lower pressure in the torque converter resulting in less connection with the actual gear it is in.

AT is sort of engaged while there is centriputal force from the engine to accelerate the car, but once the throttle is let off there is not much connection between the drive gear and tires due to the lower pressure inside the torque converter. this is why AT cars coasts forever when you let off the throttle vs MT cars. MT cars you are 100% in gear when a gear is selected and clutch-out state.

the reason newer sportier cars are trying to use more electronic-clutch AT's is because mainly for this reason...so the driver input is connected to the tires, not just to the torque converter for a more enjoyable driving experience... sounds like a marketing campaign. if you want true driving experience, get a MT.
get off the high horse already and leave the AT/MT flame wars for another thread.
 
  #10  
Old 06-18-2010 | 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BraytonAK
I read that the new Fiesta will have an electrically actuated transmission, which means its clutches are electrically activated, instead of hydraulically. Why they wanted to do this, I don't know. They must see some benefit.
The Fiesta (and new VW) automatics work in a completely different way than a traditional torque converter automatic. Think of it as two manual transmissions and clutches running parallel in one housing. Electric actuators with computer controls run everything. Efficiency is higher because there is no slippage. While running in one gear, the second transmission is pre-selected for the next gear. Ratios are staggered. The shift occurs by one clutch disengaging and the other one engaging. When the car comes to a stop, both are disengaged.

I think this technology is "the future" until full electric cars with traction motors come along. CVT's are another efficient technology, while cheaper, cant handle as much hp/torque as the dual clutch type.
 
  #11  
Old 06-18-2010 | 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by secondspassed
get off the high horse already and leave the AT/MT flame wars for another thread.
you have more issues to worry about than just your AT buddy.
 
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