Backlash from your old Clunker's fans
#41
08-21-2009 | 06:49 PM
Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 376
From: PA
Not at all...the sweeping generalization of "Buy American" is as goofy as the sweeping generalization of "Don't buy American," or "Buy Japanese," especially as you start to dig into where many "import" cars are made.
The only non-ignorant answer is to do some research. Every car is a crapshoot...all you can do is hope to stack the odds in your favor.
Dismissing entire lines or entire countries out-of-hand without any research beyond one's own anecdotal evidence...now that would be ignorant.
The only non-ignorant answer is to do some research. Every car is a crapshoot...all you can do is hope to stack the odds in your favor.
Dismissing entire lines or entire countries out-of-hand without any research beyond one's own anecdotal evidence...now that would be ignorant.
#42
08-21-2009 | 07:18 PM
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,346
From: Small Town WI
well this is for lostpacket do you realize that most import cars are made in the USA now? for example my galant, accords, civics (i think), camrys, this is to keep costs down! if you think that it costs less to make a car in japan than in the US you need to do some book learnin and then go on crazy rants
#43
08-22-2009 | 03:41 PM
Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 72
From: somewhere
well this is for lostpacket do you realize that most import cars are made in the USA now? for example my galant, accords, civics (i think), camrys, this is to keep costs down! if you think that it costs less to make a car in japan than in the US you need to do some book learnin and then go on crazy rants
As an example, I have a 1989 Accord. I went to remove the rear control arm and ball joint assembly. Because they used zinc plated bolts, I could remove them with ease. Note, that car is 20 years old. I have had 5 year old US cars/trucks that had rusted bolts due to cost cutting measures that would have negated this easy R&R process.
You might also note, the last part of the rant was really directed to those with the mentality of "buy American or you are not American" which is just pure ignorance. I buy what works the best, if it is not American, get over it. I'm sure there are crap Japanese cars, and some good US based ones (you usually pay a lot for the ones that are not pure crap), but in general, the US based cars are usually inferior to Japanese.
To jzerocsk, I should have probably phrased that better than saying "ignorant." My apologies.
Last edited by lostpacket; 08-22-2009 at 03:48 PM.
#44
08-22-2009 | 04:43 PM
Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 53
From: New Hampshire
"Of course I do. BUT, they are Japanese designed and Japanese parts (Honda for example)"
I support the Japanese car industry because they pay their Executives 50% or less of the American Salaries while paying their employee over 90% of the American employees salaries.
They're not interested in driving working people into poverty while creating a wealthy ruling class.
Oh, and they make a good product.
I support the Japanese car industry because they pay their Executives 50% or less of the American Salaries while paying their employee over 90% of the American employees salaries.
They're not interested in driving working people into poverty while creating a wealthy ruling class.
Oh, and they make a good product.
#46
08-22-2009 | 07:19 PM
Someone that spends her life on FitFreak.net
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,448
From: West Coast, USA
"Of course I do. BUT, they are Japanese designed and Japanese parts (Honda for example)"
I support the Japanese car industry because they pay their Executives 50% or less of the American Salaries while paying their employee over 90% of the American employees salaries.
They're not interested in driving working people into poverty while creating a wealthy ruling class.
Oh, and they make a good product.
I support the Japanese car industry because they pay their Executives 50% or less of the American Salaries while paying their employee over 90% of the American employees salaries.
They're not interested in driving working people into poverty while creating a wealthy ruling class.
Oh, and they make a good product.
http://www.byd.com
http://http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2008/11/kulongoski_lobbies_to_bring_ch.html
It's the answer to dozens of problems we face:
Rather than buy expensive machines, BYD has held down prices by relying on manual labor -- which in the United States is usually a company's largest expense. BYD workers' wages start at 1,000 Chinese yuan a month, or about $150 U.S., said Elva Zhai, 24, a sales assistant in the export trade department. The workday is from 8:30 a.m. to 5p.m.
The company provides free housing, but the cost of three meals a day -- provided at the cavernous cafeteria -- come out of their salary for an unnoticeable amount. On Friday at lunch, thousands of employees, wearing stylish jeans, T-shirts and BYD lanyards line up for a dozen varieties of meat, vegetables, rice and soup. Zhai swipes her employee badge; she doesn't know the exact cost of each meal.
"It's very little," said Zhai, who moved two years ago from her hometown of Xi'an, a city where BYD runs a plant. She holds a degree in international economics, and working at BYD feels a lot like being in college, she said.
With most of their costs covered, workers are able to save a fair bit of money, Zhai said. She and her friends sometimes go downtown to sing in the karaoke clubs or go shopping. Workers have 10 days of vacation each year, and they come from across China to work at BYD. The company offers housing for entire families and builds sports fields on-site. It also runs schools for employees' children and has a technical school where many of BYD's 11,000 engineers come from.
------
Somewhere I have links to pictures of that area, and it's stunning.
Wages don't have to be high when you have most everything provided at low or no cost. Everyone think back...way back for some of us
Being at home with parents and getting an allowance or earning money from doing chores at home or things for the neighbors like mowing their lawns or babysitting.
No home payment, no car payment, we might have had a bicycle. No grocery shopping. Eating out with friends was covered via that scant amount we got for allowance/chores/earnings.
It was simple and it was easy and it was not very stressful. Certainly far less stressful than making the transition from school days to crazy work and cars and rent or owning a home and car insurance and homeowner's insurance, etc.
What if you could have just kept on in that relatively stress free environment? Where you didn't need a car or big earnings and home was right there. Where you could play sports or go for bike rides. Where your meals were prepared for you. Where there were opportunities for additional schooling, without the stresses of rent or house payments.
It's a lot like communities of yore, where it really WAS a community. And young people could go into the same work as their parents, like on the family farm. Here it would making autos.
How much crime do you think there would be in that environment? Like none? There's nothing to steal. LOL! There isn't a huge dividing line between a ghetto and a wealthy neighborhood...it's all the same. Well, not all the same, but there isn't a huge group of haves and have nots. You work with all your neighbors. You eat lunch with all your neighbors.
While I don't see a lot of old timers in the auto making industry embracing the above, it would be a great thing for the young people.
#48
08-23-2009 | 02:54 AM
Someone that spends her life on FitFreak.net
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,448
From: West Coast, USA
So why was Brilliance showing four of its newest models in Detroit? Because the company still wants to enter the United States and says it has the expertise to make it happen. “In a joint venture with BMW, they assemble 3 Series and 5 Series sedans in China; they assemble Toyotas; they assemble four different engine lines,” said Jack Gerken, a spokesman for Brilliance at the show. “It’s just a tough market right now, both here and back home in China.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/18/au...w/18CHINA.html
#50
08-23-2009 | 03:12 AM
Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 233
From: Flagstaff,AZ
from where exactly behind the cheese curtain do you hail? I was born and raised in Milwaukee...
#51
08-23-2009 | 03:13 AM
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,346
From: Small Town WI
jefferson area......eh i don't like it, i want to move to chicago..........yeah my dad was born and raised in milwaukee, he drove through and showed me and my lil bro where he lived....in the ghetto haha and we were rollin in our 06 durango with chrome wheels and a loud exhaust with dark tint it was great
#52
08-23-2009 | 06:29 AM
We'd had a discussion somewhere about the BYD (Build Your Dreams) car company. It's the kind of model I'd like to see come to the U.S.
http://www.byd.com
http://http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2008/11/kulongoski_lobbies_to_bring_ch.html
It's the answer to dozens of problems we face:
Rather than buy expensive machines, BYD has held down prices by relying on manual labor -- which in the United States is usually a company's largest expense. BYD workers' wages start at 1,000 Chinese yuan a month, or about $150 U.S., said Elva Zhai, 24, a sales assistant in the export trade department. The workday is from 8:30 a.m. to 5p.m.
The company provides free housing, but the cost of three meals a day -- provided at the cavernous cafeteria -- come out of their salary for an unnoticeable amount. On Friday at lunch, thousands of employees, wearing stylish jeans, T-shirts and BYD lanyards line up for a dozen varieties of meat, vegetables, rice and soup. Zhai swipes her employee badge; she doesn't know the exact cost of each meal.
"It's very little," said Zhai, who moved two years ago from her hometown of Xi'an, a city where BYD runs a plant. She holds a degree in international economics, and working at BYD feels a lot like being in college, she said.
With most of their costs covered, workers are able to save a fair bit of money, Zhai said. She and her friends sometimes go downtown to sing in the karaoke clubs or go shopping. Workers have 10 days of vacation each year, and they come from across China to work at BYD. The company offers housing for entire families and builds sports fields on-site. It also runs schools for employees' children and has a technical school where many of BYD's 11,000 engineers come from.
------
Somewhere I have links to pictures of that area, and it's stunning.
Wages don't have to be high when you have most everything provided at low or no cost. Everyone think back...way back for some of us
Being at home with parents and getting an allowance or earning money from doing chores at home or things for the neighbors like mowing their lawns or babysitting.
No home payment, no car payment, we might have had a bicycle. No grocery shopping. Eating out with friends was covered via that scant amount we got for allowance/chores/earnings.
It was simple and it was easy and it was not very stressful. Certainly far less stressful than making the transition from school days to crazy work and cars and rent or owning a home and car insurance and homeowner's insurance, etc.
What if you could have just kept on in that relatively stress free environment? Where you didn't need a car or big earnings and home was right there. Where you could play sports or go for bike rides. Where your meals were prepared for you. Where there were opportunities for additional schooling, without the stresses of rent or house payments.
It's a lot like communities of yore, where it really WAS a community. And young people could go into the same work as their parents, like on the family farm. Here it would making autos.
How much crime do you think there would be in that environment? Like none? There's nothing to steal. LOL! There isn't a huge dividing line between a ghetto and a wealthy neighborhood...it's all the same. Well, not all the same, but there isn't a huge group of haves and have nots. You work with all your neighbors. You eat lunch with all your neighbors.
While I don't see a lot of old timers in the auto making industry embracing the above, it would be a great thing for the young people.
http://www.byd.com
http://http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2008/11/kulongoski_lobbies_to_bring_ch.html
It's the answer to dozens of problems we face:
Rather than buy expensive machines, BYD has held down prices by relying on manual labor -- which in the United States is usually a company's largest expense. BYD workers' wages start at 1,000 Chinese yuan a month, or about $150 U.S., said Elva Zhai, 24, a sales assistant in the export trade department. The workday is from 8:30 a.m. to 5p.m.
The company provides free housing, but the cost of three meals a day -- provided at the cavernous cafeteria -- come out of their salary for an unnoticeable amount. On Friday at lunch, thousands of employees, wearing stylish jeans, T-shirts and BYD lanyards line up for a dozen varieties of meat, vegetables, rice and soup. Zhai swipes her employee badge; she doesn't know the exact cost of each meal.
"It's very little," said Zhai, who moved two years ago from her hometown of Xi'an, a city where BYD runs a plant. She holds a degree in international economics, and working at BYD feels a lot like being in college, she said.
With most of their costs covered, workers are able to save a fair bit of money, Zhai said. She and her friends sometimes go downtown to sing in the karaoke clubs or go shopping. Workers have 10 days of vacation each year, and they come from across China to work at BYD. The company offers housing for entire families and builds sports fields on-site. It also runs schools for employees' children and has a technical school where many of BYD's 11,000 engineers come from.
------
Somewhere I have links to pictures of that area, and it's stunning.
Wages don't have to be high when you have most everything provided at low or no cost. Everyone think back...way back for some of us
Being at home with parents and getting an allowance or earning money from doing chores at home or things for the neighbors like mowing their lawns or babysitting.
No home payment, no car payment, we might have had a bicycle. No grocery shopping. Eating out with friends was covered via that scant amount we got for allowance/chores/earnings.
It was simple and it was easy and it was not very stressful. Certainly far less stressful than making the transition from school days to crazy work and cars and rent or owning a home and car insurance and homeowner's insurance, etc.
What if you could have just kept on in that relatively stress free environment? Where you didn't need a car or big earnings and home was right there. Where you could play sports or go for bike rides. Where your meals were prepared for you. Where there were opportunities for additional schooling, without the stresses of rent or house payments.
It's a lot like communities of yore, where it really WAS a community. And young people could go into the same work as their parents, like on the family farm. Here it would making autos.
How much crime do you think there would be in that environment? Like none? There's nothing to steal. LOL! There isn't a huge dividing line between a ghetto and a wealthy neighborhood...it's all the same. Well, not all the same, but there isn't a huge group of haves and have nots. You work with all your neighbors. You eat lunch with all your neighbors.
While I don't see a lot of old timers in the auto making industry embracing the above, it would be a great thing for the young people.
#54
08-23-2009 | 01:22 PM
Someone that spends her life on FitFreak.net
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,448
From: West Coast, USA
It just seemed to me to be a way to get kids out of bad or poor lives/lifestyles/areas. And there would be a lot more at risk if you messed up at your job or thrashed your apartment via loud parties. You could lose your home, your job, your food all at once. Because you can't stay in company-provided housing if you don't work for the company.
I thought it would be a good transition from home life to work life, for anyone. When you're out on your own for the first time, learning about the responsibilities.
I also thought it would awesome for families, because they do have schools for children there. No having to drive distances to drop off or pick up the kids. It should be safe to let even the littlest ones walk home, building responsibility in children. Sort of like they do in Sweden.
Every child in Sweden, between Years 1 and 10, has the right to eat a free school lunch every weekday. These lunches are cooked and served by professional staff in suitable, well equipped dining halls.
IngentaConnect Food for Future Citizens: School Meal Culture in Sweden
and:
Post-compulsory education is offered through 17 National Programmes providing qualifications that allow students to go on to higher education. Some of these programmes also include industrial work placements. The National Programmes of upper secondary education are offered at Gymnasia and lead to the award of the Slutbetyg Från Gymnasieskola.Tuition is free.Outside the upper secondary school system there are folk high schools (Folkhögskolan) which provide state-supported adult education lasting between one and three years of studies. There are no formal examinations. Post-secondary studies include advanced vocational training (Kvalificerad yrkesutbilding) which is intended to meet the labour market's needs for the skills required for modern production of goods and services. About one-third of the course period takes place at the workplace.
STRUCTURE OF EDUCATION SYSTEM IN SWEDEN
and:
It feels like a huge culture shock, but it's trivial compared to the seismic differences in store. The Praktiska Gymnasium is not an under-funded state school that's dying on its feet; it's a thriving, over-subscribed independent school that is only eight years old. And that's just for starters. Where British independent schools focus on the academic, this one caters exclusively for 16- to 18-year-olds training to become mechanics, locksmiths and electricians, and no one - not even those who don't complete all their qualifications - fails to get a job on leaving.
...
During the course of this nine-year schooling, pupils pick up credits for what they have achieved and, provided they have reached minimum targets in Swedish, English and maths, they are allowed to move on to upper secondary school to study one of 17 different programmes, ranging from construction, industry and food to arts, social science and technology. There is far less snobbery attached to the difference between the academic and the vocational than elsewhere. Indeed, construction tends to get more applications than almost any other programme because students are all but guaranteed a well-paid job at the end.
John Crace examines the Swedish school system | Education | The Guardian
I thought it would be a good transition from home life to work life, for anyone. When you're out on your own for the first time, learning about the responsibilities.
I also thought it would awesome for families, because they do have schools for children there. No having to drive distances to drop off or pick up the kids. It should be safe to let even the littlest ones walk home, building responsibility in children. Sort of like they do in Sweden.
Every child in Sweden, between Years 1 and 10, has the right to eat a free school lunch every weekday. These lunches are cooked and served by professional staff in suitable, well equipped dining halls.
IngentaConnect Food for Future Citizens: School Meal Culture in Sweden
and:
Post-compulsory education is offered through 17 National Programmes providing qualifications that allow students to go on to higher education. Some of these programmes also include industrial work placements. The National Programmes of upper secondary education are offered at Gymnasia and lead to the award of the Slutbetyg Från Gymnasieskola.Tuition is free.Outside the upper secondary school system there are folk high schools (Folkhögskolan) which provide state-supported adult education lasting between one and three years of studies. There are no formal examinations. Post-secondary studies include advanced vocational training (Kvalificerad yrkesutbilding) which is intended to meet the labour market's needs for the skills required for modern production of goods and services. About one-third of the course period takes place at the workplace.
STRUCTURE OF EDUCATION SYSTEM IN SWEDEN
and:
It feels like a huge culture shock, but it's trivial compared to the seismic differences in store. The Praktiska Gymnasium is not an under-funded state school that's dying on its feet; it's a thriving, over-subscribed independent school that is only eight years old. And that's just for starters. Where British independent schools focus on the academic, this one caters exclusively for 16- to 18-year-olds training to become mechanics, locksmiths and electricians, and no one - not even those who don't complete all their qualifications - fails to get a job on leaving.
...
During the course of this nine-year schooling, pupils pick up credits for what they have achieved and, provided they have reached minimum targets in Swedish, English and maths, they are allowed to move on to upper secondary school to study one of 17 different programmes, ranging from construction, industry and food to arts, social science and technology. There is far less snobbery attached to the difference between the academic and the vocational than elsewhere. Indeed, construction tends to get more applications than almost any other programme because students are all but guaranteed a well-paid job at the end.
John Crace examines the Swedish school system | Education | The Guardian
#55
08-23-2009 | 11:59 PM
Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 351
From: philadelphia, pa
I didn't even know my old clunker had any fans.. but I did recently go to a message board for it.. (I've got some parts to get rid of) and someone else had posted that they turned theirs in for a clunker, and mentioned some of the problems they were having with it.. and most of the feedback was positive. Heck, people realize that when you get $4500 for something that was worth $1000 or less, and that had all sorts of problems that you made a good deal.
#56
08-24-2009 | 12:57 AM
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|
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 154
From: brooklyn,ny
I didn't even know my old clunker had any fans.. but I did recently go to a message board for it.. (I've got some parts to get rid of) and someone else had posted that they turned theirs in for a clunker, and mentioned some of the problems they were having with it.. and most of the feedback was positive. Heck, people realize that when you get $4500 for something that was worth $1000 or less, and that had all sorts of problems that you made a good deal.
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