Bad Cash for Clunkers Paperwork
#42
08-17-2009, 12:44 PM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 1,448
Yea I'm familiar with other dealerships halting the cash for clunkers program, specifically the whole Brunswick auto mile (Honda/Toyota/etc), but my dealership told me they are still going through with the program and are not dropping it and don't plan on dropping it. As for looking elsewhere, sure.. but theres a few probs with looking elsewhere. First off is I don't know if any other dealership in the area would be willing to give me it at the price I got it from (base Fit w/auto). I got $1k off of the sticker.
Secondly, the extra time with finding another Fit, going through the paperwork over again, figuring out how to transfer the CARS info to another dealer, etc. would likely set me back another week or two which is likely when I would get the Fit from Sunnyside Honda anyway. I called the CARS hotline about it and they took my name, said they would fax it to the proper department, and would give me a call back. I'm still waiting on the call back so maybe they are in the process of finding my CARS info and possibly contacting my dealership.
It should all be there in the system because my dealership said I'm "in queue" for approval and they got approval on 5 of 40-something clunkers thus far and are waiting for my specific approval. All my paperwork and financing info was finished on July 31st, and another final sheet was finished on August 4th. I'm hoping I can get it this week at the very least if that whole CARS news posting about getting it the day-of transaction is true.
Secondly, the extra time with finding another Fit, going through the paperwork over again, figuring out how to transfer the CARS info to another dealer, etc. would likely set me back another week or two which is likely when I would get the Fit from Sunnyside Honda anyway. I called the CARS hotline about it and they took my name, said they would fax it to the proper department, and would give me a call back. I'm still waiting on the call back so maybe they are in the process of finding my CARS info and possibly contacting my dealership.
It should all be there in the system because my dealership said I'm "in queue" for approval and they got approval on 5 of 40-something clunkers thus far and are waiting for my specific approval. All my paperwork and financing info was finished on July 31st, and another final sheet was finished on August 4th. I'm hoping I can get it this week at the very least if that whole CARS news posting about getting it the day-of transaction is true.
If they have done the paperwork, you're supposed to have your new car, and you are NOT supposed to be driving the trade-in. They cannot submit the information for government payment without you having the new car, and them having the trade-in.
That seemed to be a no-brainer from my own point of view, but it was not specifically spelled out until recently, on the CARS site.
Remember that initially it was thought that the program would run MONTHS on that first billion and they only had like 200 people to do the work at the government end. They are supposed to be adding or have added about another 1,000 people to help expedite the processing.
Also remember that there were computer problems, the computer was jam packed and couldn't handle all the traffic.
Dealers got customer crush, tons (literally) of trade-ins, cars flying off the lots...
I remember the day that I went to do errands, and came back to find here on FitFreak that the program was being suspended or might be out of money...just during the few hours I had done errands that day. Crazy stuff!
There's one thing I have absolutely no doubt about though...
The dealers really do want to sell you a car.
It's what they do. It's how they make a living. They need to sell you cars to live their lives.
They really aren't trying to be mean, or to play a trick, they want to sell you a car and they want to get paid for it. But there's this third party in the works, the government, who is paying for some of that car. It's a new wrinkle and they have to iron out the problems associated with that.
It's like this:
YouTube - hamburger
Did Wimpy ever actually get the hamburger and did he ever pay on Tuesday?
#43
08-17-2009, 09:51 PM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 1,448
Restating what we know:
Do NOT sign a contingency agreement to pay back the dealer your $3,500 or $4,500 rebate if the deal is rejected. If the dealer claims it’s a requirement – walk away.
Do NOT keep your “clunker” after purchasing a new car. Some dealers are asking consumer to hang on to their old beater just in case the deal doesn’t go through. Guess what – you don’t have to wait for the dealer to get paid by the government. That’s between them and Uncle Sam. In fact, turning in your car is required under this program.
DO drive away in your new car after signing on the dotted line. The dealer must allow you to take possession of your new car at the time the deal is made. You do NOT have to wait for the dealer to submit any paperwork to the government.
If a dealer tries to convince you to do any of the above – report them. It’s wrong and the government’s official website will tell you so. To file a complaint call the CARS hotline at (866) Car-7861.
Some car dealers may want to cover their hide – at your expense. Don’t let them. Get your rebate, your new car and drive away happy!
http://www.examiner.com/x-14932-Cincinnati-Business-Insight-Examiner~y2009m8d17-Cash-for-Clunkers--What-dealers-are-doing-wrong
------
Even the news doesn't check up on the statement made by a dealer on the requirements, though:
One problem is that the government recently changed the paperwork requirements. A new rule is that dealers must write on the title that the car is a clunker, according to Al Frisch, owner of Highland Park Ford Lincoln Mercury.
While Frisch doesn't think the requirements are unreasonable, some submissions have been rejected because they didn't match new demands.
Frisch has heard about dealers refusing to deliver cars, but he won't do that.
"Why should the consumer be the monkey in the middle?" asked Frisch, who is owed about $200,000. He said his biggest problem is he's running out of cars to sell.
Car dealers to government: Show us the money :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Transportation
------
BUZZZ...wrong answer. That's not "new". Page 93 of The Rule states:
(3) Legibly mark the front and back of the trade-in vehicle's title in prominent letters that do not obscure the owner's name, VIN, or other writing as follows: "Junk Automobile, CARS.gov"
That has been in the rules since they were released.
The dealer will not be paid unless the government gets the copy of the title showing that the title marked as a junk car. On both sides.
They (dealers) could have had a little stamp made that says those words exactly to make it extra easy.
Do NOT sign a contingency agreement to pay back the dealer your $3,500 or $4,500 rebate if the deal is rejected. If the dealer claims it’s a requirement – walk away.
Do NOT keep your “clunker” after purchasing a new car. Some dealers are asking consumer to hang on to their old beater just in case the deal doesn’t go through. Guess what – you don’t have to wait for the dealer to get paid by the government. That’s between them and Uncle Sam. In fact, turning in your car is required under this program.
DO drive away in your new car after signing on the dotted line. The dealer must allow you to take possession of your new car at the time the deal is made. You do NOT have to wait for the dealer to submit any paperwork to the government.
If a dealer tries to convince you to do any of the above – report them. It’s wrong and the government’s official website will tell you so. To file a complaint call the CARS hotline at (866) Car-7861.
Some car dealers may want to cover their hide – at your expense. Don’t let them. Get your rebate, your new car and drive away happy!
http://www.examiner.com/x-14932-Cincinnati-Business-Insight-Examiner~y2009m8d17-Cash-for-Clunkers--What-dealers-are-doing-wrong
------
Even the news doesn't check up on the statement made by a dealer on the requirements, though:
One problem is that the government recently changed the paperwork requirements. A new rule is that dealers must write on the title that the car is a clunker, according to Al Frisch, owner of Highland Park Ford Lincoln Mercury.
While Frisch doesn't think the requirements are unreasonable, some submissions have been rejected because they didn't match new demands.
Frisch has heard about dealers refusing to deliver cars, but he won't do that.
"Why should the consumer be the monkey in the middle?" asked Frisch, who is owed about $200,000. He said his biggest problem is he's running out of cars to sell.
Car dealers to government: Show us the money :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Transportation
------
BUZZZ...wrong answer. That's not "new". Page 93 of The Rule states:
(3) Legibly mark the front and back of the trade-in vehicle's title in prominent letters that do not obscure the owner's name, VIN, or other writing as follows: "Junk Automobile, CARS.gov"
That has been in the rules since they were released.
The dealer will not be paid unless the government gets the copy of the title showing that the title marked as a junk car. On both sides.
They (dealers) could have had a little stamp made that says those words exactly to make it extra easy.
Last edited by TaffetaWhite; 08-17-2009 at 09:54 PM. Reason: darn spaces didn't show up again, in the copy/paste items.
#44
08-18-2009, 06:12 PM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 1,448
Today's news:
The federal government has been slow to process the tens of thousands of clunker applications nationally, and that's creating a series of hang-ups.
Like Faulk, many other buyers have yet to receive their new cars, as dealers hold out to receive clunker funding — even though withholding a car is in violation of a federal government directive.
Other buyers are getting their cars, but dealers are presenting them with agreements to pay back the dealership if clunker funding is rejected. That, too, is wrong, the federal government says.
And some dealers are giving buyers their cars but waiting to process title paperwork that buyers need to register their cars. By the end of this month, the first buyers will face the 30-day registration deadline and the prospect of having an unregistered car on the road.
Omaha.com - The Omaha World-Herald: Metro/Region - Blowing gaskets over clunkers
------
The government-sponsored program has boosted car sales and given healthy trade-in values to clunkers owned by hundreds of thousands of consumers. But now it also has some car buyers up in arms and some dealers caught in the middle as the details of the plan -- including how quickly dealers might be reimbursed and consumers might get their cars -- have proved difficult to resolve.
...
Griffin said a staffer at one of his dealerships had been on hold three hours and counting Monday afternoon, trying to resolve an issue with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, the federal agency charged with carrying out the program.
...
"I think the dealers were following the rules, how they interpreted the rules to be," Tolkan said. "It’s a very difficult situation, to put it mildly."
Darlene and James Schaeffer of West Bend say they’ve gone nearly three weeks without a second car after trading in their 1997 Chevy Silverado at the end of July.
Cars first, then cash, feds insist - BostonHerald.com
------
I know we've heard about the consumer end...but, come on...THREE HOURS ON HOLD?
And you all have probably had a similar experience as the dealers are running into. You have what you think is an easy question, you just need someone to answer it, at a store or some business...and you get put on hold...and transferred...and put on hold...eventually hitting someone's voice mail that says "I'm on vacation until September, please leave a message...".
Dealers are individual companies, and are acting in many different ways. best to find the one that meets your needs. And if they don't meet your needs and you still don't have a car, check back with that dealer in a few days or a week.
Some that started have stopped. Some that hadn't are now participating. Some that weren't delivering are now delivering, etc.
The federal government has been slow to process the tens of thousands of clunker applications nationally, and that's creating a series of hang-ups.
Like Faulk, many other buyers have yet to receive their new cars, as dealers hold out to receive clunker funding — even though withholding a car is in violation of a federal government directive.
Other buyers are getting their cars, but dealers are presenting them with agreements to pay back the dealership if clunker funding is rejected. That, too, is wrong, the federal government says.
And some dealers are giving buyers their cars but waiting to process title paperwork that buyers need to register their cars. By the end of this month, the first buyers will face the 30-day registration deadline and the prospect of having an unregistered car on the road.
Omaha.com - The Omaha World-Herald: Metro/Region - Blowing gaskets over clunkers
------
The government-sponsored program has boosted car sales and given healthy trade-in values to clunkers owned by hundreds of thousands of consumers. But now it also has some car buyers up in arms and some dealers caught in the middle as the details of the plan -- including how quickly dealers might be reimbursed and consumers might get their cars -- have proved difficult to resolve.
...
Griffin said a staffer at one of his dealerships had been on hold three hours and counting Monday afternoon, trying to resolve an issue with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, the federal agency charged with carrying out the program.
...
"I think the dealers were following the rules, how they interpreted the rules to be," Tolkan said. "It’s a very difficult situation, to put it mildly."
Darlene and James Schaeffer of West Bend say they’ve gone nearly three weeks without a second car after trading in their 1997 Chevy Silverado at the end of July.
Cars first, then cash, feds insist - BostonHerald.com
------
I know we've heard about the consumer end...but, come on...THREE HOURS ON HOLD?
And you all have probably had a similar experience as the dealers are running into. You have what you think is an easy question, you just need someone to answer it, at a store or some business...and you get put on hold...and transferred...and put on hold...eventually hitting someone's voice mail that says "I'm on vacation until September, please leave a message...".
Dealers are individual companies, and are acting in many different ways. best to find the one that meets your needs. And if they don't meet your needs and you still don't have a car, check back with that dealer in a few days or a week.
Some that started have stopped. Some that hadn't are now participating. Some that weren't delivering are now delivering, etc.
Last edited by TaffetaWhite; 08-18-2009 at 06:16 PM.
#45
08-18-2009, 07:56 PM
Today's news:
The federal government has been slow to process the tens of thousands of clunker applications nationally, and that's creating a series of hang-ups.
Like Faulk, many other buyers have yet to receive their new cars, as dealers hold out to receive clunker funding — even though withholding a car is in violation of a federal government directive.
Other buyers are getting their cars, but dealers are presenting them with agreements to pay back the dealership if clunker funding is rejected. That, too, is wrong, the federal government says.
And some dealers are giving buyers their cars but waiting to process title paperwork that buyers need to register their cars. By the end of this month, the first buyers will face the 30-day registration deadline and the prospect of having an unregistered car on the road.
Omaha.com - The Omaha World-Herald: Metro/Region - Blowing gaskets over clunkers
------
The government-sponsored program has boosted car sales and given healthy trade-in values to clunkers owned by hundreds of thousands of consumers. But now it also has some car buyers up in arms and some dealers caught in the middle as the details of the plan -- including how quickly dealers might be reimbursed and consumers might get their cars -- have proved difficult to resolve.
...
Griffin said a staffer at one of his dealerships had been on hold three hours and counting Monday afternoon, trying to resolve an issue with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, the federal agency charged with carrying out the program.
...
"I think the dealers were following the rules, how they interpreted the rules to be," Tolkan said. "It’s a very difficult situation, to put it mildly."
Darlene and James Schaeffer of West Bend say they’ve gone nearly three weeks without a second car after trading in their 1997 Chevy Silverado at the end of July.
Cars first, then cash, feds insist - BostonHerald.com
------
I know we've heard about the consumer end...but, come on...THREE HOURS ON HOLD?
And you all have probably had a similar experience as the dealers are running into. You have what you think is an easy question, you just need someone to answer it, at a store or some business...and you get put on hold...and transferred...and put on hold...eventually hitting someone's voice mail that says "I'm on vacation until September, please leave a message...".
Dealers are individual companies, and are acting in many different ways. best to find the one that meets your needs. And if they don't meet your needs and you still don't have a car, check back with that dealer in a few days or a week.
Some that started have stopped. Some that hadn't are now participating. Some that weren't delivering are now delivering, etc.
The federal government has been slow to process the tens of thousands of clunker applications nationally, and that's creating a series of hang-ups.
Like Faulk, many other buyers have yet to receive their new cars, as dealers hold out to receive clunker funding — even though withholding a car is in violation of a federal government directive.
Other buyers are getting their cars, but dealers are presenting them with agreements to pay back the dealership if clunker funding is rejected. That, too, is wrong, the federal government says.
And some dealers are giving buyers their cars but waiting to process title paperwork that buyers need to register their cars. By the end of this month, the first buyers will face the 30-day registration deadline and the prospect of having an unregistered car on the road.
Omaha.com - The Omaha World-Herald: Metro/Region - Blowing gaskets over clunkers
------
The government-sponsored program has boosted car sales and given healthy trade-in values to clunkers owned by hundreds of thousands of consumers. But now it also has some car buyers up in arms and some dealers caught in the middle as the details of the plan -- including how quickly dealers might be reimbursed and consumers might get their cars -- have proved difficult to resolve.
...
Griffin said a staffer at one of his dealerships had been on hold three hours and counting Monday afternoon, trying to resolve an issue with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, the federal agency charged with carrying out the program.
...
"I think the dealers were following the rules, how they interpreted the rules to be," Tolkan said. "It’s a very difficult situation, to put it mildly."
Darlene and James Schaeffer of West Bend say they’ve gone nearly three weeks without a second car after trading in their 1997 Chevy Silverado at the end of July.
Cars first, then cash, feds insist - BostonHerald.com
------
I know we've heard about the consumer end...but, come on...THREE HOURS ON HOLD?
And you all have probably had a similar experience as the dealers are running into. You have what you think is an easy question, you just need someone to answer it, at a store or some business...and you get put on hold...and transferred...and put on hold...eventually hitting someone's voice mail that says "I'm on vacation until September, please leave a message...".
Dealers are individual companies, and are acting in many different ways. best to find the one that meets your needs. And if they don't meet your needs and you still don't have a car, check back with that dealer in a few days or a week.
Some that started have stopped. Some that hadn't are now participating. Some that weren't delivering are now delivering, etc.
Called the CARS hotline for the second time and they took my info again, but asked for more info like what dealership I bought it from and my email address. Said I should have gotten a call back today (but I haven't), and told me I should expect one within 24hrs......this is with regards to my Honda Fit purchased on 7/31 but my dealership has not accepted my trade-in and told me they will not allow me to pickup my new car until they have gov't approval on the $4500...hopefully tomorrow I'll hear back...
Last edited by jamesco411; 08-18-2009 at 07:58 PM.
#46
08-19-2009, 07:48 PM
Called the CARS hotline for the second time and they took my info again, but asked for more info like what dealership I bought it from and my email address. Said I should have gotten a call back today (but I haven't), and told me I should expect one within 24hrs......this is with regards to my Honda Fit purchased on 7/31 but my dealership has not accepted my trade-in and told me they will not allow me to pickup my new car until they have gov't approval on the $4500...hopefully tomorrow I'll hear back...
#47
08-20-2009, 08:45 PM
Decided to call the Hotline again today...apparently I am still in the "approval queue" which means the dealership does not have to give me my vehicle nor do they have to accept my trade-in. Apparently you enter an approval queue where the gov't reviews your paperwork and then gives the dealership an "approval" that everything is in line for them to receive their $4500 dollars. They must give me the vehicle after this first approval. However, he said if the dealership is actually waiting for the $4500 to be processed and credited to the dealership, that's when its a big NO-NO......so I guess I just gotta wait it out a few more weeks or so...hopefully by the 31st....
Last edited by jamesco411; 08-20-2009 at 08:50 PM.
#48
08-20-2009, 08:48 PM
OH, that BLOWS!! It could be MONTHS before they get them all processed at the rate this is going!
#49
08-20-2009, 09:33 PM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 1,448
Ends Monday, August 24th
Well, they better do something quick, or you better...it ends August 24th, Monday...
U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood announced Thursday that after a wildly successful run, the cash for clunkers program will come to a close on Monday, August 24th at 8 p.m. EST.
Final wind down strategy:
The CARS program will remain open until the close of business on Monday, August 24
(8:00pm EST). This period provides ample opportunity for dealers to complete and submit
all outstanding transactions into the DOT system. As of 6 AM on Thursday, more than
450,000 transactions have been submitted by dealers, representing a total of about $1.9
billion. This represents approximately 2/3rds of the $3 billion allocated to the Department of
Transportation to operate the CARS program. Based on conservative estimates of valid deals
transacted under the program, DOT has projected that the program will be able to continue to
accept new submissions until the Monday deadline, consistent with the statutory authority of
the program.
(more in the pdf on the CARS site)
Press release:
DOT 126-09
Thursday, August 20, 2009
Tel: 202-366-4570
Secretary LaHood Announces Wind Down to
Hugely Popular CARS Program
U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood announced Thursday that after a wildly
successful run, the cash for clunkers program will come to a close on Monday, August
24th at 8 p.m. EDT.
(more in the pdf press release on the CARS site)
U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood announced Thursday that after a wildly successful run, the cash for clunkers program will come to a close on Monday, August 24th at 8 p.m. EST.
Final wind down strategy:
The CARS program will remain open until the close of business on Monday, August 24
(8:00pm EST). This period provides ample opportunity for dealers to complete and submit
all outstanding transactions into the DOT system. As of 6 AM on Thursday, more than
450,000 transactions have been submitted by dealers, representing a total of about $1.9
billion. This represents approximately 2/3rds of the $3 billion allocated to the Department of
Transportation to operate the CARS program. Based on conservative estimates of valid deals
transacted under the program, DOT has projected that the program will be able to continue to
accept new submissions until the Monday deadline, consistent with the statutory authority of
the program.
(more in the pdf on the CARS site)
Press release:
DOT 126-09
Thursday, August 20, 2009
Tel: 202-366-4570
Secretary LaHood Announces Wind Down to
Hugely Popular CARS Program
U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood announced Thursday that after a wildly
successful run, the cash for clunkers program will come to a close on Monday, August
24th at 8 p.m. EDT.
(more in the pdf press release on the CARS site)
#50
08-20-2009, 09:34 PM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 1,448
Decided to call the Hotline again today...apparently I am still in the "approval queue" which means the dealership does not have to give me my vehicle nor do they have to accept my trade-in. Apparently you enter an approval queue where the gov't reviews your paperwork and then gives the dealership an "approval" that everything is in line for them to receive their $4500 dollars. They must give me the vehicle after this first approval. However, he said if the dealership is actually waiting for the $4500 to be processed and credited to the dealership, that's when its a big NO-NO......so I guess I just gotta wait it out a few more weeks or so...hopefully by the 31st....
If they have submitted paperwork, then you are supposed to have your car and they are supposed to have your trade-in.
Edit add-on: Unless you are referring to this:
DOT amended its rule to allow dealers to wait to receive approval for their
transactions before disabling the trade-in’s engine, which helps dealers avoid taking
unnecessary financial risks to participate in the program.
That doesn't mean you don't get the car and they don't hold your trade-in on their lot. It means they don't have to disable the trade-in until they receive approval.
The other rules state that the car must be delivered if the car is on the dealer's lot. And that you cannot continue to drive the trade-in.
Last edited by TaffetaWhite; 08-20-2009 at 09:54 PM.
#51
08-20-2009, 10:32 PM
James, that is new to me. There is NO PAPERWORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO REVIEW UNLESS THE DEALER HAS SUBMITTED PAPERWORK.
If they have submitted paperwork, then you are supposed to have your car and they are supposed to have your trade-in.
Edit add-on: Unless you are referring to this:
DOT amended its rule to allow dealers to wait to receive approval for their
transactions before disabling the trade-in’s engine, which helps dealers avoid taking
unnecessary financial risks to participate in the program.
That doesn't mean you don't get the car and they don't hold your trade-in on their lot. It means they don't have to disable the trade-in until they receive approval.
The other rules state that the car must be delivered if the car is on the dealer's lot. And that you cannot continue to drive the trade-in.
If they have submitted paperwork, then you are supposed to have your car and they are supposed to have your trade-in.
Edit add-on: Unless you are referring to this:
DOT amended its rule to allow dealers to wait to receive approval for their
transactions before disabling the trade-in’s engine, which helps dealers avoid taking
unnecessary financial risks to participate in the program.
That doesn't mean you don't get the car and they don't hold your trade-in on their lot. It means they don't have to disable the trade-in until they receive approval.
The other rules state that the car must be delivered if the car is on the dealer's lot. And that you cannot continue to drive the trade-in.
#52
08-20-2009, 10:40 PM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 1,448
If you don't get the car by Monday cut-off, you don't get the deal. They cannot submit new deals, and whatever deals have been submitted are supposed to have delivered the cars and be storing the trade-ins.
Who has the trade-in?
Who has the title?
#53
08-21-2009, 09:25 AM
Phone call, schmone call...the dealer needs to deliver that car before the cut-off on Monday, or no deal. The car is on the lot. The car is supposed to be delivered.
If you don't get the car by Monday cut-off, you don't get the deal. They cannot submit new deals, and whatever deals have been submitted are supposed to have delivered the cars and be storing the trade-ins.
Who has the trade-in?
Who has the title?
If you don't get the car by Monday cut-off, you don't get the deal. They cannot submit new deals, and whatever deals have been submitted are supposed to have delivered the cars and be storing the trade-ins.
Who has the trade-in?
Who has the title?
Called the DOT - Department of Transportation - and reported the dealership to them as a result. Told them the story and they said they'll look into it and fax it to the nec. department.
We'll see what the DOT does with it....I don't have enough time to fiddle with cancelling this order and then going with another dealership to find a Fit before Monday when the program closes. Eventually something is bound the break - either they get approval from the review soon or the DOT huddles in and says they have to deliver the car regardless.....who knows...
#54
08-21-2009, 09:40 AM
conference call between you, the dealer, and the hotline?
At this point, I'd call one of the local tv stations that does a consumer affairs piece. This programs has generated a lot of news. They'd likely jump all over this.
At this point, I'd call one of the local tv stations that does a consumer affairs piece. This programs has generated a lot of news. They'd likely jump all over this.
#55
08-23-2009, 05:47 PM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 1,448
Some dealers are well aware of fines:
""If one document submitted to us turned out to be not true or viable, the burden goes back to the dealer," said Bay Ridge Toyota sales manager Mohammad Ali. "And instead of you getting $3,500 off, you could be slapped with $15,000 in fines."
and the good news:
"How much money did they put into the auto business, did it really do much? You put $3 billion on the street for real people, you stimulate the whole economy," said Lika. "Banks, car dealers, stock, everything went up. It's a great thing. I wish they would keep it open. We've been going a little crazy, probably need more paper to do more paperwork, but it's a good thing for the economy, very good for us."
NY1 | 24 Hour Local News | Top Stories | "Cash For Clunkers" Program Nears Finish Line
------
What I thought was interesting is that the dealer is pointing the finger at the consumer for the fine...not even THINKING that it could be the DEALER who gets fined. The dealers thus far seem to be the ones violating the CARS program. I haven't heard of one report of a consumer trying to pull a fast one...
""If one document submitted to us turned out to be not true or viable, the burden goes back to the dealer," said Bay Ridge Toyota sales manager Mohammad Ali. "And instead of you getting $3,500 off, you could be slapped with $15,000 in fines."
and the good news:
"How much money did they put into the auto business, did it really do much? You put $3 billion on the street for real people, you stimulate the whole economy," said Lika. "Banks, car dealers, stock, everything went up. It's a great thing. I wish they would keep it open. We've been going a little crazy, probably need more paper to do more paperwork, but it's a good thing for the economy, very good for us."
NY1 | 24 Hour Local News | Top Stories | "Cash For Clunkers" Program Nears Finish Line
------
What I thought was interesting is that the dealer is pointing the finger at the consumer for the fine...not even THINKING that it could be the DEALER who gets fined. The dealers thus far seem to be the ones violating the CARS program. I haven't heard of one report of a consumer trying to pull a fast one...
Last edited by TaffetaWhite; 08-23-2009 at 08:09 PM. Reason: Added in the last paragraph after I got back from errands
#56
08-23-2009, 09:12 PM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 1,448
I'll eat those words now, LOL:
But some people were so anxious to be rid of their hunks of junk that dealers had to inspect both cars and paperwork carefully. At Toyota of Dallas, one man tried to pass off his truck as the 4-wheel-drive version that would have qualified for the program.
“We were on to him from the start,” said David Kelley, the general manager. “I had two people who brought in fake insurance cards.” He added, “I just tell them I’m going to give these papers to the federal government, and they do the right thing real quick.” That means they walk away.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/23/us...1&pagewanted=2
But some people were so anxious to be rid of their hunks of junk that dealers had to inspect both cars and paperwork carefully. At Toyota of Dallas, one man tried to pass off his truck as the 4-wheel-drive version that would have qualified for the program.
“We were on to him from the start,” said David Kelley, the general manager. “I had two people who brought in fake insurance cards.” He added, “I just tell them I’m going to give these papers to the federal government, and they do the right thing real quick.” That means they walk away.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/23/us...1&pagewanted=2
#57
08-26-2009, 03:40 AM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 1,448
Fern Creek retiree Peggy Luther purchased a 2009 Ford Focus from Bill Collins Ford Lincoln Mercury last month, trading in a 1997 GMC Sierra pickup as part of the federal “Cash for Clunkers” program.
She has a purchase agreement showing she made a nearly $8,000 down payment and financed the remaining $7,000 through Ford Motor Credit. Other documents show the $4,500 clunker rebate was deducted from the Focus' total price of $22,404, along with $3,000 in other discounts.
But she does not have the car.
Instead, the Focus remains at the Collins dealership on Bardstown Road, and the truck, with 230,000 miles on the odometer, is sitting in her driveway, fully operable.Dealership owner Kevin Collins said that in an effort to protect his business if rebates don't come through, the majority of its clunker deals were set up that way — until the rebate is paid, the new car stays on the lot, along with the old car's title.
The head of the Swope Auto Group said in an interview that he also had initially set up some deals the same way.
“I have the right to protect myself and my business. … I don't have to deliver anybody a car. I don't have to take anybody's word that the government is going to send this money,” Collins said.
But a federal official says that procedure violates the Cash for Clunkers rules, and that any dealer who does that could be subject to fines as high as $15,000 per transaction.
Some car buyers caught in a catch for clunkers | courier-journal.com | The Courier-Journal
She has a purchase agreement showing she made a nearly $8,000 down payment and financed the remaining $7,000 through Ford Motor Credit. Other documents show the $4,500 clunker rebate was deducted from the Focus' total price of $22,404, along with $3,000 in other discounts.
But she does not have the car.
Instead, the Focus remains at the Collins dealership on Bardstown Road, and the truck, with 230,000 miles on the odometer, is sitting in her driveway, fully operable.Dealership owner Kevin Collins said that in an effort to protect his business if rebates don't come through, the majority of its clunker deals were set up that way — until the rebate is paid, the new car stays on the lot, along with the old car's title.
The head of the Swope Auto Group said in an interview that he also had initially set up some deals the same way.
“I have the right to protect myself and my business. … I don't have to deliver anybody a car. I don't have to take anybody's word that the government is going to send this money,” Collins said.
But a federal official says that procedure violates the Cash for Clunkers rules, and that any dealer who does that could be subject to fines as high as $15,000 per transaction.
Some car buyers caught in a catch for clunkers | courier-journal.com | The Courier-Journal
#58
08-26-2009, 07:36 AM
"But a federal official says that procedure violates the Cash for Clunkers rules, and that any dealer who does that could be subject to fines as high as $15,000 per transaction"
and they should fine them the full amount.
Here, the Cadillac/GMC dealer is whinning because he made deals before the start of the C4C program.. and he's not going to be reimbursed.
He blames the govt., LOL!
and they should fine them the full amount.
Here, the Cadillac/GMC dealer is whinning because he made deals before the start of the C4C program.. and he's not going to be reimbursed.
He blames the govt., LOL!
#59
08-26-2009, 09:53 AM
“I have the right to protect myself and my business. … I don't have to deliver anybody a car. I don't have to take anybody's word that the government is going to send this money,” Collins said.
#60
08-26-2009, 04:13 PM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Coast, USA
Posts: 1,448
And you have right to protect yourself and your business by NOT PARTICIPATING in the program, not by bending the rules any way you wish. Some people are just stupid and should be fined. How in the world are they smart enough to even keep the business afloat. Must have been a handmedown from Mommy and Daddy.
The same rules that are on the CARS website are the same rules the dealers are supposed to follow. They seemed very clear to me, other than that scrap value part and if it's supposed to go to the consumer or the dealer (it was later clarified as being something that could be negotiated). And that part also could be a source of a fine, since obviously any car is worth more than a dollar.
I don't know how much fining will occur, but it could put some of the worst dealerships in a financial bind. And I don't know where the fines go, but I would like to see the fines go back to the program to cover the costs OF the program, which then lessens the burden on the taxpayer.
It's not like the cheaters can't be caught. That's what makes it a good program, in my opinion. People either have their new cars or they don't. If they did the deal and don't have the car, then it's a potential violation. It's a potential violation if the person also has their clunker. It's a potential violation if the dealer underestimates scrap value. It's a potential violation if the dealer asks for a contingency contract.
If any ONE of those things occur on a transaction, it's a potential fine up to $15,000.
I hope that the fines ARE assessed. I want the dealers paid for the deal, and I want the buyers to have their cars. THEN I want the fines assessed. After the people all have their cars. Otherwise it will get even testier between consumers and dealers.
The dealers that broke the rules should be fined. But that shouldn't be taken out on the consumer, who had absolutely NO control over what the dealer does.