I wonder if the government and all those people WAY UP THERE on Capitol Hill are just a bit jaded. Those BIG numbers they deal with, $700 Billion for this or that, and it barely makes a dent. Everything is in BILLIONS. There is no Dollar Store.

They forget that many "average" people drive an extra block to save two cents a gallon on gas. Or that we shop and stock up on canned goods when we can save a nickel.

Average folks don't know the term "billion" in their personal lives. Or million, really. This amount of money means a lot, this $3,500-$4,500.

Which should also perk up manufacturers. Not just from this program, but if people are willing to buy a new car, if the cost is $4,500 less, um....HELLO???

MAKE a car that costs much less. That gets good gas mileage. That alone will get people to check out a new car, because the PRICE is right.

 

Who would've guessed: people like cars that are reasonably priced? No way!

All it took was a major government program for the word to get out.

 

I had a really good experience. The only hard part was tracking down someone in the BMV that knew ho to get a faxed copy of the previous registration. I was really lucky that my salesperson was really knowledgeable and told me exactly how to proceed. Another dealership I went to didn't mention all of the details, they just wanted me to sign the deal. In the end, I don't have to worry about it getting rejected and coming up with the $4,500 like other have had to when they were rejected after getting the car.

In your face Glen Beck, you clown shoes wearing idiot.

 

We live in the New Haven area. There are 4 other Honda dealers within a 20 mile drive. During our closing, I looked at their "closing schedule" board and there were at least 5 appointments every day next week.

 

Connecticut alone has $9 million in vouchers:

And in southeastern Connecticut, dealers were gearing up for at least another week of sensational sales. Cardinal Honda in Groton and Rob Valenti, who owns dealerships in Mystic, Westerly and Old Saybrook, reported upwards of 50 clunker deals to date. Bill Sullivan tallied 84 at the M.J. Sullivan dealership.
The $2 billion is supposed to last through August and fund an additional 500,000 new-car sales across the country, though dealers have their doubts that even this will last.
”This is an instance where the government got it right, even with some of the problems they ran into,” said James Fleming, president of the Connecticut Automotive Retailers Association.
”This is the first time the average citizen on Main Street is seeing a direct benefit from the stimulus package, and the small business is seeing a direct benefit,” Fleming said. “This is not a bonus going to someone on Wall Street.”
In Connecticut alone, nearly $9 million in vouchers have been requested. U.S. Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., and Rep. Joe Courtney, D-2nd District, sang the program's praises Friday, with Dodd emphasizing that singular statistic.
”The program is working far better than anyone anticipated and now we will be able to continue to help families and consumers, boost the economy, and take the most polluting vehicles off the road,” Dodd said in a statement.
TheDay.com - Local auto dealers keep on clunkin'

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It's pretty amazing. Those closing appointments are probably leftovers from before the extension/additional funding. And there will be plenty more sales coming.

 

STILL WAITING IN JERSEY. It's been over three weeks now since I made made my deal, anc car continues to gather dust. DEALER WILL RELEASE IT BUT WON'T GUARANTEE CRC MONEY. At least I still have my clunker to drive and a copy of fax confirmation showing paperwork was submitted in a timely fashion, We're still tap dancing around issue of scrap value. Manager says it's taking 10 days to get government OK for $. to ADD INSULT TO INJURY , THEIR BILLING OFFICE SENT ME AN INVOICE FOR BALANCE on Saturday, for a car sitting on their lot. Can't wait till monday to call billing office to see what that's all about. BTW they offered to unwind the deal if I wanted to go elsewhere but inventories have been sorly depleted, and price I have is good one. I just hope adage is true "good things come to those who wait"

 

Tedster, we have GOT to get you into a car. This is nuts.

First, to submit the deal, they have to have your title. And your clunker.

Sounds like THEY are backing out of the deal.

Who did you finance through?

Who is the dealer?

How about a BBP stick with Nav?
Here's the link to the car that shows the VIN:
Paul Miller Honda - New Inventory

Color is listed as "Pr" on their Fit Sport page:
Paul Miller Honda - New Inventory

To help clarify the rules of CARS for yourself, download The Amendment:
CARS.gov - Car Allowance Rebate System - Official Information - Formerly Referred to as “Cash for Clunkers”

Go to Page 13, scroll down to Disposal of the Trade In Vehicle, second dot/bullet, section (b):

As a condition of the government's payment of the credit to me, (a) I have disabled the engine following the procedures of the CARS Program; or,
(b) I will store the trade-in vehicle at the dealership or property owned by or under the control of the dealership until the engine is disabled by me, and will disabled the engine following the procedures of the CARS Program not more than seven calendar days after receiving payment by the government for the transaction and prior to transferring possession of the trade-in vehicle; or, (c) if this transaction occurred prior to July 24, 2009 and the trade-in vehicle is no longer in my possession, then I have either located the vehicle, disabled the engine following the procedures of the CARS Program and hereby certify that I have done so, or I am submitting to the NHTSA under Miscellaneous Documents a sworn affidavit from a disposal facility that the engine block has been crushed or shredded.

I typed that, it wouldn't let me copy and paste. We know they haven't done (a), because you are driving the car. We know they haven't done (c), because you are driving the car.

And we know they haven't done (b), the only one that can possibly apply to a vehicle that still has a running engine in the CARS Program. They don't have possession, they are not storing it, therefore, they could not have legitimately submitted CARS paperwork for the vehicle as a trade-in.

I don't know what you've signed or what they've said. But if they (the dealership) are billing you for the entire car, then they don't have financing, and they certainly haven't done anything about the CARS Program regarding your trade vehicle.

You need to call the Hotline for the program:
(866) CAR-7891

If you really want to get into it, you call the news too. I'm sure they'd be interested in the story you have. Someone has dropped the ball. Someone somewhere in that dealership has totally goofed.

If they goofed with you, they might have goofed with others. There might be a whole lot of people waiting for cars they will NEVER get, because the dealer messed up paperwork or requirements.

You have a choice. You can wait for the money to run out in the second go-around with CARS or you can call the news and the hotline, or you can find another dealer (after being sure the deal is not valid at the first place).

Contracts can make you liable for that car. Even if you don't have it. You signed something. And they're billing you.

The Hotline is open today. Call.

The tv and newspaper sites are probably open today, call or write.

There's a chance there is some kind of huge misunderstanding. That needs to be cleared up. Maybe a financing problem.

Get 'er done.

Something is very "not right" about what is happening, and it has to be fixed or canceled and you have to go somewhere else for a car.

Because you're risking not only the car you originally wanted, but you're also risking the chance to get in on the entire program. Either way, you lose.

They want to sell cars. You want to buy a car. Find out where the problem is. And it's NOT something to do with them submitting the paperwork, because they are committing fraud if they have stated they have your trade-in.

 

Here's what I think will be an unanticipated consequence of the CARS program. The first billion put a big dent in inventory; another $2 billion is going to further deplete inventories. Vehicles that are built in the USA, Canada, and Mexico have a shorter supply line, while there isn't time to ship more vehicles from Europe, Japan, and Korea before the program ends. Therefore, as the high MPG vehicles (often imports) are depleted, people are going to buy more American-made vehicles because that's all that's left. Over time, the gas mileage improvements from CARS deals will drop, but the proportion of vehicles actually built in North America will go up. Even the imports that are assembled here are likely to run into supply problems, since roughly half of content is imported.

Check back in November to see if this prediction pans out. We should have some reliable statistics before the end of the year.

 

Won't need to wait until November.
The Associated Press: As 'cash for clunkers' ramps up, new cars sell out

I've been posting over in the CARS news section. Selden, one dealership decided to close this weekend to repave the lot...

Because they were out of cars. They did not have one single vehicle that would qualify to sell in the CARS program.

Of the top ten cars being bought, only three are made exclusively outside the US. The Fit is one of those.

CARS funding is expected to last until about Labor Day. That would be September 7th. Yes, that's right folks, in less than a month the CARS program will probably run out of funds. Again.

Whatever is a true import, whatever is in stock or on it's way and expected to be processed and at the dealership within the next 2-3 weeks, that's it.

People will still NEED to buy cars, whether or not there is a program running. No matter what mpg the car gets or who makes it, it eventually has to have substantial work or be replaced.

 

An interesting hypothesis. I don't think we'll have to wait till November to find out, though. IIRC the four-cylinder Camrys and Accords are close to 75% North American content now, and I've been saying for a long time that I thought those (along with the Corolla and Civic) would end up being the biggest sellers in C4C deals.

Stay tuned, folks, there's more to come.

(P.S.: Selden--loved your Alaska travelogue)

 

Not enough inventory is a "problem" that automobile dealers haven't had to face in a long time. I could be as far off as I was on my initial estimate of when the $1 billion would run out, but I think that now that the first gold rush has peaked, CARS sales will slow down to a more manageable pace, possibly even leaving dealers to restock with new inventory. American factories should be able to ramp up production quickly for a short period, unless they are down for model year retooling. The second $2 billion could still run out by Labor Day, but I think it will last a little longer.

I sincerely hope that Congress will resist the urge to pander by adding more money. $3 billion should be enough to get things moving, although if there is a second dip to the recession, I wouldn't be surprised to see a "son of clunkers" bill next year, possibly with more flexible conditions. I understand the 25 year limit (EPA stats don't exist farther back), and I fully support the destruction of CARS vehicles (reports from Germany -- which doesn't have a kill requirement -- suggest that 10's of thousands of vehicles are being illegally exported). But a simple +5, +10, +15 mpg system would be easier to understand, and would apply to more vehicles. A 10 mpg improvement is still a 10 mpg improvement, whether the clunker gets 18 mpg or 28 mpg.

 

"Son of Clunkers"!!! LOL!!!

One of the blogs I read earlier stated the blogger felt the $4,500 was too "lavish" and that the amount should have been cut back for the additional funding.

It probably will be in the future, for any new bills.

As far as the EPA goes, there are still a bunch of behemoths that ought to be taken off the road that are barely worth scrap. Those vehicles being over 25 years old, perhaps a smaller incentive (which would last longer and/or cover more older vehicles).

Part of the goal is to reduce pollution. And many states DO have air quality/smog checks in place. The Texas Air program has allowances for vehicles that pass the safety inspection, but fail the smog tests.

Since some of the states have all that info, on all the cars in their state, duh, those statistics can be merged into a national database. And averaged.

That gives a rough estimate of what any one vehicle of a make and model and engine and transmission might be pumping out. That's what we need to know for clean air.

And the government can make a "Hit List" or "Most Wanted" poster. Like the old West. LOL!

Listing out specific vehicles, that can be turned over to designated scrap yards, for a Federal voucher, good for $1,000 on the auto of their choice.

No scrap value things, just the voucher. Everyone owning that specific vehicle gets $1,000 voucher, until that specific amount of funding runs out. And those vehicles are destroyed.

-------

Some of the Dealers themselves started a program to bring in used vehicles and they will pay a premium for them, ones that are fairly new (2006 or newer). And that's a great program.

-------

There are a lot of in between vehicles. They do still have a lot of life left in them. They aren't exactly gas guzzlers. And it's a real shame to crush them.

Like you said, getting 5 mpg more is getting 5 mpg more. 16 mpg might seem like a gas hog...unless you've been driving something that only gets 10 mpg. That improvement should not come at the expense of the environment though. I mean, air quality shouldn't get worse.

But I think getting the worst of the worst off the road, AND offering the premium for fairly new cars on trade for a new car leaves those in-between people in pretty good shape.

Their cars will be in more demand too. Their cars will be the ones for sale by owner, to be bought as someone's first car. Maybe someone's extra car for work. They will gain value, simply because the older clunkers are GONE. Not necessarily a lot in monetary value, but more in "demand value".

--------

I especially like the idea of the voucher for "Most Wanted" though. Make it limited time. Limited funds. With the voucher non-transferable and good for six months.

Good for new or used cars, at participating dealers. And the dealer doesn't have all that extra paperwork to do. The car has already been disposed of at the salvage yard.

The salvage guys need to check that the car is the make and model and year or VIN, but they don't need to do anything other than take the car and destroy the engine.

Nobody has to check the smog on any specific vehicle, nobody has to check mpg.

So we'd have something like

Most Wanted for July and August of 2009:
All 1980-82 8-cylinder Ford or Chevy Vans with the following VIN sequence.
$1,000 voucher available.

Think that would work?

 

Tedster, here's another BBP sport, but it's auto:
Route 23 Honda | New Honda Inventory and Detailed Pictures | Pompton Plains - Butler - Pompton Lakes - Wayne | New Jersey

You'll have to manually look it up there, here's the VIN
JHMGE88449S064712

-------
BBP Automatic with Nav at Burns:
http://www.burnshonda.com/new-inventory/
JHMGE88669S073638

------
BBP auto sport:
http://www.avalonhonda.com/new-inventory/
JHMGE88449S046355

------
BBP auto sport:
http://www.mikepiazzahonda.com/new-i...seHistory=true
JHMGE88409S046353

 

OK, it's been ten days since I completed the CARS paperwork and the dealer still hasn't called me to pick up my new Fit. I drove through the dealer's lot today and there are now 40 clunkers parked there. When I traded mine, there were about ten.

I did see my new Fit. It's parked behind the building in the upper lot where no one can mess with it. I did notice that they now have a license plate and a temporary tag on the car. Could this mean it's finally going to happen? I can't see them putting the plate and tag on the car if it wasn't ready to be picked up. Maybe they'll call me tomorrow.

 

You call them!

Twice a day. In the morning after they've opened. And in the evening before they close. Tell them you are checking in, and need a status update.

I mean, you probably have switched over insurance? Yes? No? Who covers the car(s) while they are BOTH in the dealer's possession?

If something happens to the new car, it shouldn't come out of your insurance. But you're PAYING insurance on it, right?

And if the financing went through, will you be getting a bill that includes interest on the time the car was not in your possession?

Ask them some of those questions. See if that speeds up your delivery.

 

TW I APPRECIATE YOUR SUPPORT IMMENSELY, BUT I NEED A SPORT M/T. I guess I'll just have to hope I'm not getting screwed' If I am, I'll just have to find a good lawyer. I think very fourth person in NJ is one. Can't wait to what excuse they have MONDAy!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My BBP MT Sport is really sharp and I've become quite attached. I'll just have to out stubborn the #@!&$$#'S. I WILL win.

 

The first one I found was a Sport Nav MT. I guess you HAVE to have BBP too. Otherwise, there are plenty of Sport MT in the area (from the online searching).

Lawyer won't be able to help you get $4,500 from the government when the CARS program is out of money.

You have access to The Rule and The Amendment. You can read them yourself and from that alone you KNOW there are many problems with your story.

Keep us updated.

 

Has anyone else noticed every single car dealer putting beat old clunkers out in front of all the lots to bring in the customers? Now that's advertising, considering they pick the worst of the worst clunkers to put out in front.

 

Here's a news article for ya:

DETROIT -- With the "cash for clunkers" program generating more than 245,000 vehicle sales in two weeks, car dealers intensified pressure on auto makers Monday to ramp up production.
Dealers around the country scrambled to find fuel-efficient vehicles that qualify for the program to fill their lots. They also voiced concerns that the extra $2 billion Congress approved for the plan last week won't last through September.


"I am trying to buy new cars wherever I can find them," said Alan Helfman vice president of River Oaks Chrysler Jeep in Houston. Mr. Helfman said he has 50 new vehicles on his lot compared with 320 normally. "Any bump in production would be fantastic."





Chrysler Group LLC has added shifts and overtime at some of its plants. General Motors Co. said it is likely to increase production, but hasn't made any decisions. Ford Motor Co. said it won't make any announcement until early September.

and:

While Ford and GM are still weighing whether to boost production, Chrysler is taking a more aggressive approach. The auto maker, which is being managed by Italian auto maker Fiat SpA, notified workers at its Warren, Mich., pickup-truck assembly plant that they will work overtime on three Saturdays starting August 29, according to two United Auto Workers officials who received details of the plan but asked not to be identified. The plant produces Dodge Rams. More overtime could be scheduled in October, they said.


Also on Monday, Chrysler restored the third-shift to its Windsor, Ontario, minivan plant. The plant assembles the Dodge Grand Caravan, Chrysler Town & Country and Volkswagen Routan. The company ran its Toldeo plant -- home to the Jeep Wrangler -- on overtime last week.

More here:
Dealers Scramble to Find Fuel-Efficient Cars - WSJ.com

P.S. Selden, I read your whole travel blog this morning. What a great adventure! I used to live way up there in B.C. And I think one of the fellas on FitFreak is also up around Fort St. John. Pictures were wonderful. Text was like being there.

I'm only an armchair traveler, and it was sure nice to get out of the house for awhile. I liked the small library, especially the beams. The neat small cabin. The scenery was gorgeous.

 

In case nobody has seen it yet, the government site (CARS.gov) has explicit instructions not to sign any contingency agreements, and that if they have the car in stock and you have all your paperwork in order, they must let you take possession of the car.

Quote from the site below:
"We’ve heard that dealers are asking consumers to sign agreements with contingencies when they participate in the CARS program.

CONSUMERS SHOULD NOT SIGN CONTINGENCY AGREEMENTS TO PAY BACK THE DEALER SHOULD THE CARS CREDIT BE REJECTED.

We’ve also heard that dealers are asking consumers to keep their “clunker” until the deal is approved by NHTSA.

IF THE DEALER HAS THE NEW CAR IN STOCK, THE DEALER MUST ALLOW YOU TO TAKE POSSESSION OF THE NEW CAR BEFORE THE DEALER MAY SUBMIT THE CREDIT APPLICATION TO THE GOVERNMENT. PLEASE REPORT ANY DEALER TO NHTSA THAT DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO TAKE POSSESSION OF A NEW CAR PURCHASED UNDER THE CARS PROGRAM. PLEASE CALL THE CARS HOTLINE AT (866) CAR-7861."

Hopefully dealers have been informed of this, otherwise you could report them... but I don't know how much of an effect that'll have...