Who gets what part of the profit is actually pretty important - that gives you information on what your salesman's incentives are, and will help you understand why he is behaving the way he is in negotiation. Understanding that will help you to come to a mutually acceptable outcome more quickly and without as much anger.

Simply put, more information is always beneficial.

 

I know someone corrected you already, but you're just so wrong that I thought I'd jump in here and give you a kick in the ass as well.

Remember, there are THREE parties at work here, each with their own interests in mind:

-The dealer
-The car salesman
-The customer

The car salesman doesn't make a dime on anything other than "purchase price - invoice", which does NOT include holdbacks or anything like that. Just because the DEALERSHIP would make money on an invoice sale, that doesn't mean that the SALESMAN would hand over the car for that price. Salesman turn away deals that would make the dealership money all the time if they think they could get more from most other buyers.

So yes, how the salesman is compensated is definitely the buyer's concern.

A common way around this is to simply call the Fleet Manager and negotiate the sale that way, circumventing the salespeople altogether.

Or, if you're me, and you work for the company that owns the real estate that 15 different US Honda dealerships are situated on, then you just call either General Managers or Owners and get the car for invoice-incentives.

 

Of course more information is always beneficial, but you're putting far too much trust in the salesman if you're looking for any kind of explanation of behavior.

The simple fact is that you are buying an object of fixed value and it is their goal to increase the amount of money you hand over. Everything else is an afterthought.

 

Never said anything about the salesman explaining his own behavior. What I meant was that by understanding the structure of fees, etc. involved, you gain insight into motives and motivations, which can help you get to a deal more quickly.

 

Chip on your shoulder much? Let's cut the emotionally loaded crap and stick to facts.

It is ALWAYS in the best interest of the person selling the car for you to give more money for that same car. It does not matter one iota if they get 7% of the gross price, 30% of the profit, or $12/hour. It does not matter if their title is salesman, fleet manager, or general manager. Regardless of who takes home what percentage of each segment of profit, when the vehicle purchase price is higher, there is more to go around, period. As a consumer, that price is the only part you are negotiating.

 

And what multiple people, with varying degrees of politeness, have been trying to tell *you* is that your point of view on negotiations is overly simplistic. If price minus incentives was the only thing on which a dealership made profits on a sale, you would be correct. HOWEVER - the additional incentives available to a dealer but not commissionable for the salesman means that incentives for those two parties are NOT completely aligned. Therefore, the salesman and sales manager will act in different ways to look out for their own incentives. As a consumer, you're up against both of them, and therefore must take both of their incentives and motivations into account in order to reach an acceptable deal quickly. Being cognizant of this will allow you to spend less time in the dealership, and possibly let you end up with a deal that's better for you.

 

it would depend on your credit.

but generally speaking, unless honda have some kind of special going, you can usually get better rates from a local credit union.

 

the real simple fact is you are buying a 20,000 dollar object with a profit margain of 11-14%, you are just so cheap, you are trying to cut that profit margain to 3%.

and even when you are presented with the offer at only 3% profit, you want even more.

lastly, the value is far from fixed, how much the dealership sells, the amount of time the vehicle have been sitting, any potential spiffs in the near future, or even which sales person sells it all have a play on the vehicle's value.

 

But Azanon, for me, the accessories I want are the sport grille, cargo cover, and bumper protector. Those three require nearly zero labor. The cargo cover snaps in, the protector has sticky on it you adhere to the bumper, and the grille snaps in and out like when you have to change a headlight. I don't want to pay a crapload in "labor" for this stuff. If it were a new stereo or wiring, hell yes I'd have a pro do it. But not for this little stuff. Just my opinion. (Plus, the dealer I spoke to said that no warranty will be voided).

 

I wasnt talking about a warranty being voided. I know they wouldnt do that for a few minor parts. I was talking about the parts you're buying being covered by the warranty including the installation job done on them.

I was looking at the splash guards myself, but when i saw 4-5 steps screws and bolts, i say screw that (x4). I'm just too busy with everything else to play mechanic on my car. If its something one step or "snap in" and done, then sure i can do that. Or obviously floor mats, I would order that separate.

Oh, btw, the sports grill is a hell of a lot more work involved than your impression. Think 15+ bolts probably installed very firmly, think take the entire front bumper off, think need some help from a friend, etc..... Load the pdf up and see for yourself.

Thanks for that link though!

 

With the Fed's rate increases, car loan rates have crept up, as well. For a really easy transaction, check out Capital One's blank check loan.

Once you've been approved (it only takes minutes), they'll mail you your loan package, containing a check that's good at any Honda dealership, valid up to the amount you've been approved for. All your dealer has to do is enter the VIN number in the memo area, and list Capital One as the lien holder on the title. Incredibly simple. So simple, in fact, that my dealer called them twice, asking them "Are you SURE there's nothing else I need to do??", to which the answer was "That's it!"

Oh, and the loan package is nothing more than a few pages in a booklet, outlining the terms of the loan, and containing the check, itself (which includes the dealer's instructions). The only real paperwork involved, is you having to make the check out to the dealer.

And "no", I do not work for them.

 

How good does your credit need to be for this loan?

 

Azanon,
Yeah - you're right! I didn't even see that. I think I'll have the dealer do the window tint and sport grille, cause it looks cool. I think it's worth it. I'll probably just get the bumper applique and cargo cover myself, since those are easy.

 

Plus_C - not really sure. I have pretty good credit (FICO = 757), but Capital One is known for taking in "less than perfect credit" people, too (not that mine's "perfect"). At least if you're rejected, you don't have some banker or dealer staring at you, making you feel even worse about it.

 

I'll sell you one for a $1 under MSRP.

 

are you a dealer? if so where in atlanta

 

I've got base, and sport models coming in, in a pretty good selction of colors. If you don't mind coming to Atlanta Ga. I'll set it up for you.

 

The truth has set you free. You hit the nail on the head man. This is a very good car that people want at invoice, and in turn want a price on their trade which is above retail market value. It all boils down to whether or not you see this vehicle as a car that is worth more than it's competitors, or not. I've test driven this car, and the ride, and build quality alone will be enough to switch most consumers from cheaper alternatives. Honestly if you want an entry level car below 14k that is brand new get an Aveo, but try slamming on the brakes from 60 while gently turning....scary.

 

Another salesman trying to convince us to pay more than we need to.

 

of course...thats how they make a living. i still dont care what you pricing experts are saying in this thread...i refuse to pay MSRP...the fit is supposed to be slotted below the civic....and at almost 16grand MSRP, the civic lx's MSRP is not much more...and you could probably get invoice or close to it on the civic.