If you don't like paying the taxes no one is making you stay here in this country. No offense to anywhere else, but its the price you pay to live in the best country in the world.

 

Hey Rod,
You really should be more specific about whom you are criticizing. Everyone has to pay taxes, but no one has to like it. The last guy merely talked about leaving his STATE, not the country, for a neighboring state where his taxes had the benefit of paying for better quality public schools.

 

yeah, but there are other posters saying there should be a revolution, Boston tea party II. These are the same people that do not mind using the roads, the schools, the parks(local, state) and all of the other thousands of unseen expenses that sales taxes pay for.

Do I think things need to change? Yes I do! abolish all income tax and charge only sales taxes! Too many loopholes out there with companies and wealthy people not paying taxes, leaving it up to the working stiffs to make up the difference!!! How about all the drug dealers that do not pay a dime in income taxes yet live in big houses, where Rolex watches, have all the toys!

In the county I live in (Cook County IL.) we have one of the highest sales taxes in the country at 10%, where a lot of the money gets sucked into paying for all the illegals and welfare programs in Chicago and do not receive a lot of the benefits of the taxes living outside the city. Is it fair? Not really, but it could be worse I guess. There are always trade offs and reasons behind everything. It might be lots of companies incorporating in your state, or oil production subsidizing a lot of the state programs, or other reasons some states charge more or less than others.

People complain and moan all over the place about this country, but is sure does beat some of the alternatives!

 

I absolutely do not want to get into an argument about this, but do you realize that almost 40% of all income tax collected by the IRS is paid by those earning the top 1% based on adjusted gross income.

So many people are willing to believe that the wealthy pay little or no income taxes when it's actually the opposite. Its the lower income earners who pay little or no income taxes.

I'm with you on the fed sales tax idea 100%.

Here's the numbers according to the IRS to show what I mean;

The top 1% of earners pay 39.89% of all income tax collected by the IRS

The top 5% of earners pay 60.14% of all income tax collected by the IRS

The top 10% of earners pay 70.79% of all income tax collected by the IRS

The top 25% of earners pay 86.27% of all income tax collected by the IRS

The top 50% of earners pay 97.01% of all income tax collected by the IRS

And the bottom 50% pay 2.99% of all income tax collected by the IRS

 

+1 rep for that chart! A great reminder that the people who don't pay any taxes use the roads that the "rich" pay for.

 

Thanks Juliane! Ain't it great that some people (cough-Joe Biden-cough) see us middle-classers as "rich"!

 

MDM427,

Those numbers are correct, but are based on AGI (adjusted gross income) and not on actual income made. There is a huge difference between AGI and actual income, just due to what is NOT included by the government in calculating AGI, such as income from certain bonds, net imputed rental income, as well as other sources of income. At last calculations, these numbers add up to about 286 billion dollars. Add in the percentage deducted from adjusted gross income for all the items written off as business expenses (corporate expense account write-offs $5.5 billion for 2006) as well as all the billions of tax write offs that are given to big business and the wealthy.


Maybe I should correct my statement "Too many loopholes out there with companies and wealthy people not paying taxes" to "Too many loopholes out there with companies and wealthy people not paying all the taxes they should be paying" Why do the rich get to write off that 100 foot yacht as a business expense because they throw a 4th of July party on it once a year? Drive a hummer to work? Write it off as a business expense! Arnold did! Fly a private jet down to the super bowl? Write it off! There really is no accountability (or very little I should say) in what should or should not be deductable. Why do you think the big companies hire so many tax attorneys? Think they do it to make sure they pay every cent they owe?

Yes, wealthy people and companies pay A LOT of taxes! Nobody REALLY knows though, how much they SHOULD be paying if there were not so many loopholes, backdoor write offs, "gray area" business expenses, and billions in government subsidies handed out. " The top 1% of earners pay 39.89% of all income tax collected by the IRS" sounds outrageously high, and it would be, if in fact the top 1% of earners only made 39.89% of actual income. Nobody really knows what the top 1% actually truly make though. is it 40%? 50%? More?


To make it into the top 1% or earners, you have to be making over $400k a year (if my memory serves me correctly) from 2007. The top 50% paid over 97% of the taxes, yet only made about 87% of the adjusted gross income.

Just so you know where I am coming from, my wife and I are in the top 25% earned income area. Don't make enough to pay for all those expensive tax attorneys to get all the write offs, but make so much we get to pay for all the ones I mentioned earlier! (call me racist if you would like, but I don't like paying for healthcare and education expenses for all the illegal aliens in Chicago, then have to watch them protesting on the nightly news how they are not treated fairly! ) They should not pay for the education and healthcare of people that are not supposed to be in the country in the first place! They want to come in, have them come in LEGALLY! End of rant on that subject! LOL!


Back on subject, I think a flat tax, without all the writeoffs and loopholes, is the way to go. You want the new set of wheels or the big screen plasma, then pay the tax. Don't want to pay the tax, don't buy it! That would add billions in tax revenue to the country just from the illegal revenue stream that now goes unreported.

 

Yes, those numbers are based on AGI, but until the IRS publishes figures based on gross income, that's the best picture you can get.

You are right, there are a lot of deductions taken by the top income earners that seem less than scrupulous, but for the most part are perfectly legal. I don't know about you, but I sure take full advantage of every legal write off that I am entitled to, just like the fat cats do.

So far I agree with everything you said (especially the flat tax) except for the part about the working stiff making up the difference. Like you do (I assume), I consider myself one of those working stiffs, but I don't feel like I am paying a higher tax because the wealthiest people do not pay their share. I feel like I'm paying higher taxes than necessary because so many lower income people pay nothing at all. Then, as you mentioned, you add the fact that those who pay nothing are benefiting the most from taxpayer funded programs, and you see my frustration with the whole mess.

 

That makes 3 of us that are frustrated as hell. We don't get any write-offs and we can't find any loopholes, so I don't know where other people are getting them. I have worked hard my entire life and so has DH and we are funding people's lives who shouldn't even be here and that chaps my hide something fierce! But I don't mind paying my share, we've been blessed to this point and we've been quite thrifty. It's just that when politicians start spouting that people who don't even PAY any taxes should get refunds and stimulus checks, and say that we aren't paying our share when we are paying for the programs so that people can sit on their butts and collect welfare, THAT'S when I have a huge problem.

There's more, so much more, but if I keep going I'm going to start foaming at the mouth.

 

That is my point!!!

That is why I say they need to get rid of all the loopholes and "gray area" deductions, period. They are legal, but aimed at a certain few or too complicated for the average Joe to take advantage of. A buddy of mine and his wife paid $5000 so they could have lunch and shake hands with the president. I asked him why he would spend that kind of money on something like that, he responded "I get my picture taken with the president to hang on the wall for bragging purposes, I get to do something most people never get a chance to do, and I get to write the whole thing off as a business expense so it really doesn't cost me $5000, more like $1000."

Just because it is legal does not make it right!

The upper class and the lower class get most of the benefits of the system, while the middle class foots the majority of the bills. You complain (and I concur) that the people that put the least into the system use it the most. While that it true, the government also subsidizes the richest people in the world as well! Mark Rockefeller (name sound familiar?) was given $137,010 in farm subsidies in 2005. His brother David got $29,614.68 for his "farm"! Scottie Pippin and David Letterman also get your tax dollars for being farmers!!! Something is wrong in this world when we are running such a huge deficit that we will never see the end of it in our lifetime, yet we give farm subsidies to a guy like Letterman. By the way, Letterman's net worth is over 150 million dollars....what is wrong with this picture? Oh yeah... nothing...it is all legal and by the book!

 

Say what!?!


I'm sure it would be interesting to see how much Mark Rockefeller paid in income taxes in 2005. I bet it makes that $137,000 look like chicken feed.

I know it seems ridiculous, but the tax law as it is right now allows such things to occur. What is stopping you or I from becoming wealthy enough to buy a farm and do the same thing?

I think it's silly to hate the rich because they're rich. Hell, I'd love to be just like them some day! Well, except that I really don't like Grey Poupon.

 

"Just because it is legal does not make it right!"

That means just because you CAN do something and not end up in jail does not mean it is the right thing to do!! Farm subsidies were originally intended to help struggling farmers keep from going under. What it has turned into is mostly corporate welfare. You might be fine with it, but it does not sit right with a LOT of people! I am sure there are lots of rich people in this world that do not think like this and do not take farm subsidies on property they have no intention on farming.


" I'm sure it would be interesting to see how much Mark Rockefeller paid in income taxes in 2005. I bet it makes that $137,000 look like chicken feed."

Again, I am sure he paid a lot of money in taxes, but I would wager every dime I have, based on the fact that he DOES have many very high priced tax attorneys (that he gets to write off his payments to!) that, on a percentage basis, he pays a lower percentage in taxes than you or I do!

And finally!

" I know it seems ridiculous, but the tax law as it is right now allows such things to occur. "

Read my first post on this! I say that the tax system needs to change and close up all the loopholes! They need to stop all of this corporate welfare, the subsidization of the wealthy! I will say it again, get rid of income tax and install a national sales tax system.

Have commented enough on this, time to get back to work! There are millions on welfare depending on us!