Take a gander at this BEIOTCHES!
#41
08-12-2008, 12:12 AM
Are you refering to me Paul? If so then the only other board I typically hang out at is Pirate4x4.com
After reading about your first change analysis I'm going to change mine at the 2k mark. I can't see any problems going with 0w20 that soon (?)
--D
After reading about your first change analysis I'm going to change mine at the 2k mark. I can't see any problems going with 0w20 that soon (?)
--D
Last edited by Rockrover; 08-12-2008 at 12:16 AM.
#42
08-12-2008, 03:31 AM
It's too late and I'm too tired to find it at the moment, but Honda strongly recommends leaving the break-in oil in there until the "change me" light comes on. I think it is in response to one of Paul's recently opened threads...
#44
08-12-2008, 11:00 AM
Now that you mention it, there is a boat-load of molybdenum in the break-in oil. Moly is useful in seating parts and providing protective layers against the ring/sleeve of the cylinder wall and other parts.
Maybe this is why Honda is so adamant about keeping the high levels of moly oil in the crank-case for 5k'ish miles.
From Bobistheoilguy.com:
Molybdenum Disulfide (Moly) has been used for decades in lubricating pastes and greases because it is slippery and forms a protective coating on metal parts:
Moly exists as microscopic hexagonal crystal platelets Several molecules make up one of these platelets. A single molecule of Moly contains two sulfur atoms and one molybdenum atom. Moly platelets are attracted to metal surfaces. This attraction and the force of moving engine parts rubbing across one another provide the necessary thermochemical reaction necessary for Moly to form an overlapping protective coating like armor on all of your engine parts. This protective armor coating has a number of properties that are very beneficial for your engine.
The Moly platelets that make up the protective layers on your engine surfaces slide across one another very easily. Instead of metal rubbing against metal, you have Moly platelets moving across one another protecting and lubricating the metal engine parts.
This coating effectively fills in the microscopic pores that cover the surface of all engine parts, making them smoother. This feature is important in providing an effective seal on the combustion chamber. By filling in the craters and pores Moly improves this seal allowing for more efficient combustion and engine performance.
This overlapping coating of Moly also gives protection against loading (perpendicular) forces. These forces occur on the bearings, and lifters. The high pressures that occur between these moving parts tend to squeeze normal lubricants out.
This overlapping coating of Moly also gives protection against loading (perpendicular) forces. These forces occur on the bearings, and lifters. The high pressures that occur between these moving parts tend to squeeze normal lubricants out.
Eventually, there is metal to metal contact, which damages these moving parts and creates large amounts of heat. Fortunately, this is not the case with some lubricants.The layer of moly that forms on these moving surfaces can withstand pressures of 500,000 psi, without being squeezed out.
Engineers and scientists have tried for years to use Moly in motor oils but they had been unsuccessful because they could not find a way to keep Moly in suspension. Once Moly was put into suspension it would gradually settle out. It was easy to see it come out of suspension because a black sludge would collect on the bottom of the oil containers. In engines it would settle to the bottom of the crankcase or clog oil pathways and filters.
Engineers have overcome these obstacles. They have developed a process that keeps Moly in suspension and isn't filtered out. Since that time the product has undergone extensive independent testing in labs and in the field for many years to insure that the product stands up to the rigorous needs of today's engines. With the plating action of Moly reducing friction which reduces heat, this helps keep rings free from carbon buildup, prevents blow-by, decreases emission, and extends oil life.
For more pictures and details on moly click here
Engineers have overcome these obstacles. They have developed a process that keeps Moly in suspension and isn't filtered out. Since that time the product has undergone extensive independent testing in labs and in the field for many years to insure that the product stands up to the rigorous needs of today's engines. With the plating action of Moly reducing friction which reduces heat, this helps keep rings free from carbon buildup, prevents blow-by, decreases emission, and extends oil life.
For more pictures and details on moly click here
#45
08-17-2008, 03:17 AM
I tried to wise many up on this even over on BITOG. The moly is not added from the oil in Japan. It's from the Moly that's on the piston skirts.
The reason many of us that know better take exception to leaving the 1st fill in like that is simple. When the eng is built is has all kinds of stuff that can cause damage to the eng and shorten life floating about. I changed mine at 4500 and that was longer than I should of. I have the oil filter cut open and can post the pics of it if any one needs to know.
Hey but what do I know. Keep the factory fill in to 15%
The reason many of us that know better take exception to leaving the 1st fill in like that is simple. When the eng is built is has all kinds of stuff that can cause damage to the eng and shorten life floating about. I changed mine at 4500 and that was longer than I should of. I have the oil filter cut open and can post the pics of it if any one needs to know.
Hey but what do I know. Keep the factory fill in to 15%
#46
08-17-2008, 11:17 AM
Hey but what do I know. Keep the factory fill in to 15%
#47
08-17-2008, 11:22 AM
wdb from a stranger on the internet...lol
Had any good chats with your Honda buds lol
OK here's a pic of my factory oil filter element
this was at 4500 miles 1st change
I wish I had done the change at 2000 or sooner
based on experience as opposed to the typical
cheap translated Owner manual.
I made this big but no mater what I do the pic
does not show the stuff in the element that can
be seen with the naked eye.
Metal, steel, aluminum, copper other
RTV
Gasket
and dirt
Had any good chats with your Honda buds lol
OK here's a pic of my factory oil filter element
this was at 4500 miles 1st change
I wish I had done the change at 2000 or sooner
based on experience as opposed to the typical
cheap translated Owner manual.
I made this big but no mater what I do the pic
does not show the stuff in the element that can
be seen with the naked eye.
Metal, steel, aluminum, copper other
RTV
Gasket
and dirt
Last edited by pcs0snq; 08-17-2008 at 11:26 AM.
#49
08-17-2008, 05:37 PM
GREAT job Paul. Once again you've taken speculation and made it anecdotal.
So what size particulates does the Honda filter pull out? 20 micron? If so it is doing its job, and WILL filter the bad stuff. Those particulates probably hit the filter on the 1st oil cycle through the engine.
This is kinda' like those pictures of magnetic drain plugs. Many think there is something horibly wrong with thier trans/diffs when they pull them. In reality the debris is perfectly normal wear.
Honestly I think we're splitting hairs here. The filers are filtering. There IS a ton of cr*p in the engine from manufacturing. The real question is IF the cr*p is still flowing and working through the engine after the oil cycles through the engine once or twice. This is where comfort level comes into play. If your comfortable with knowing your filter has a bunch-o-junk in it then fine. If not change. Either way your still gonna' see 150k+ miles easy out of this engine...More if you hypermile.
So what size particulates does the Honda filter pull out? 20 micron? If so it is doing its job, and WILL filter the bad stuff. Those particulates probably hit the filter on the 1st oil cycle through the engine.
This is kinda' like those pictures of magnetic drain plugs. Many think there is something horibly wrong with thier trans/diffs when they pull them. In reality the debris is perfectly normal wear.
Honestly I think we're splitting hairs here. The filers are filtering. There IS a ton of cr*p in the engine from manufacturing. The real question is IF the cr*p is still flowing and working through the engine after the oil cycles through the engine once or twice. This is where comfort level comes into play. If your comfortable with knowing your filter has a bunch-o-junk in it then fine. If not change. Either way your still gonna' see 150k+ miles easy out of this engine...More if you hypermile.
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