Had an Excellent 70 MPG trip this weekend
#101
05-31-2008, 01:22 PM
For the record, statements from Honda and the insurance companies would carry more credibility than anybody on here. I would suggest that if it does come back as being unsafe and may cause people to loose their insurance coverage, the methods specifically sighted would be hereby banned from FF.
The insurance companies I guarantee have no more idea what hypermiling is than the majority of people in this thread.
#103
05-31-2008, 01:40 PM
More to the point; neither the insurance company or Honda would approve of using performance parts on public roads for street racing. We are talking about driving methods, not parts here.
I would never mention the word hypermilling in any letter like this. The term can mean anything. 
Use a list as I started to describe the actions using verbs and nouns
Use a list as I started to describe the actions using verbs and nouns
It would be nice to put an end to the "This is safe" "No it isn't" argument on these threads.
Last edited by Sugarphreak; 05-31-2008 at 01:42 PM.
#104
05-31-2008, 01:48 PM
If you plan to ref a web site like clean be carefully. The information on these methods is IMHO confusing and poorly written. It's not clear at all if they are for gas or hybrids or auto manual tranny. Have you looked at it for that info?
PS nothing one sided at all about making a nice list that the users on here agree on and send it. List as opposed to a web address to some huge slow site is the difference between being 100% vague and asking for details.
PS nothing one sided at all about making a nice list that the users on here agree on and send it. List as opposed to a web address to some huge slow site is the difference between being 100% vague and asking for details.
Last edited by pcs0snq; 05-31-2008 at 01:51 PM.
#105
05-31-2008, 02:12 PM
It will only end the "legal" or "not legal" discussion. Only me, the driver, can decide what is safe and when. Not any person or forum.
#106
05-31-2008, 02:12 PM
..... it is already known that there are certain after market performance parts that come in question of legality and of problems with Honda. Hence the whole voiding your warranty and tickets....... Also just because you have performance parts on your car does not mean you are going to participate in street racing or illegal activities outside of putting possible illegal things on your car. I don't street race and I know for a fact there are quite a few things on my car that illegal as far as appearance and ( not sure if intake is illegal or not ) but that is something I just accept. IMO hypermilling is dumb and should be illegal because of safety issues that way it will prevent people that are going to be stupid with it from doing it or those that take it to extremes will be fined for it for causing safety issues or clauging traffic. Just because something is illegal doesn't mean you can't do it that is a chance you take on your own.
I think the biggest thing about "hypermilling" that people have a problem with is the fact that your car is moving and off. So if there is any letters sent to anybody I think that should be the biggest point of question.
Ohh and Richxku I like meeting all your little buddies from every other forum you go to that came here to support you. HI EVERYBODY!!!
#107
05-31-2008, 02:19 PM
Just standing up for what is right. There is clearly too much ignorance and too many blanket statements to handle on my own...
#108
05-31-2008, 06:19 PM
HTH-HAND
#109
05-31-2008, 06:27 PM
Ohhh we got a feisty one. Now if anything were to be called a basher it would you because of what you just posted right there bub........
Here is a fact **** Hypermilling **** is unsafe...........
I don't care what you say turning off your car while driving is unsafe. It is one thing to turn it off while not moving but to turn the car off while rolling is just insane. If it were that safe then why the hell haven't people been doing it for years and why the hell aren't car manufacturers making cars that shut off while rolling..................
Watch out he might call me a "web-dweeb" again........
I like how no one commented on anything else I posted.
Here is a fact **** Hypermilling **** is unsafe...........
I don't care what you say turning off your car while driving is unsafe. It is one thing to turn it off while not moving but to turn the car off while rolling is just insane. If it were that safe then why the hell haven't people been doing it for years and why the hell aren't car manufacturers making cars that shut off while rolling..................
Watch out he might call me a "web-dweeb" again........
I like how no one commented on anything else I posted.
Last edited by Fitcapo; 05-31-2008 at 06:30 PM.
#110
05-31-2008, 06:55 PM
Bottom line is if the information comes back and certain aspects are clearly identified as being unsafe and you do it anyway, you fall into the same league as street racers in my opinion and laws will be put in place if it poses a risk to the public.
If you plan to ref a web site like clean be carefully. The information on these methods is IMHO confusing and poorly written. It's not clear at all if they are for gas or hybrids or auto manual tranny. Have you looked at it for that info?
PS nothing one sided at all about making a nice list that the users on here agree on and send it. List as opposed to a web address to some huge slow site is the difference between being 100% vague and asking for details.
PS nothing one sided at all about making a nice list that the users on here agree on and send it. List as opposed to a web address to some huge slow site is the difference between being 100% vague and asking for details.
Agreed, the key to making this fair to everybody is sticking to the fundamental questions we send to Honda that affect the vehicle. For Honda things like drafting and driving speeds are not necessary; however you had mentioned a few questions earlier which I think are excellent for this letter;
Here is my proposal questions;
Basically the body of the letter will imply that the questions are specific to traveling on public roads and the purpose is to increase the overall gas mileage the vehicle can achieve.
1) Can I shut my engine off at traffic lights safely
2) Can I turn the engine off and coast to a stop safely
3) Can I turn the engine off and on while traveling at highway speeds
4) Can I increase the tire pressure from the recommended PSI safely
4b) At what PSI above the recommended is it unsafe to operate the vehicle
As far as side wall pressures go it is safe to inflate them to that PSI without risking a blow out; however vehicle recommended PSI is a totally different subject, tires can have a rating from anywhere from 40psi to 100psi but the recommended will always stay the same. That PSI is set my the manufacturer and takes into account the vehicle loads. How much room is in there for adjustment is unknown and this letter will at least give us an answer for that.
Lets get some feedback on these and I will put together a draft & post it for review on Monday.
Last edited by Sugarphreak; 05-31-2008 at 07:08 PM.
#111
05-31-2008, 07:17 PM
Well I disagree on the tire pressure, but that's OK. Door jam recommended pressure is based on ride 90% of the time. My list idea was to make a list for answerers to all 3 parties not just Honda. I'd figure Honda if they answer would just say pfft on that stuff.
In any case I feel this is the way to go. It was your idea, more or less, and I can't wait to read the official responses, if any are given. I'm thinking now it may be hard to get anyone to respond in writing but it's a good effort.
I'm going to did around on Fla state laws on some of this.
In any case I feel this is the way to go. It was your idea, more or less, and I can't wait to read the official responses, if any are given. I'm thinking now it may be hard to get anyone to respond in writing but it's a good effort.
I'm going to did around on Fla state laws on some of this.
#112
05-31-2008, 08:38 PM
I'm impressed that you all are organizing this letter campaign, but if I were a wagering man I'd bet on the anwers.
From Honda: owner's manual recommends blah blah, Honda spent mucho dinero coming up with those numbers, thank you for your interest (read: Honda cannot and will not advocate anything on that list for fear of legal repurcussions should anyone have anything happen in a Honda while doing any of them.)
From insurance company: same as above
From law enforcement: We won't say it's illegal but don't do it anyway. (Give us a minute, we'll find some reason for saying that.)
It seems to me that it would be much easier to resolve the power on/off issue by noting that there is another, simpler method, for saving fuel called "pulse and coast" or NICE-on coasting" (I think) wherein you do not shut the car off between pulses, but just slide it into neutral. Not quite as much fuel economy gain, but the difference between the two is not enormous.
As to tire pressures, there is the comprehensive compendium of data at TireRack to turn to. (I love those guys for doing it.)
Tire Tech Information - Sidewall Markings
Click on the "North American Load and Pressure Marking" to read about NA specs and what that maximum pressure on the sidewall actually means (clif note: it means the maximum cold pressure according to the tire manufacturer).
There are many more articles on TireRack regarding tire pressure. Also several threads on cleanMPG.com discussing the topic, with some links to government and other studies.
After reading a bunch of that information I came to my own conclusions regarding tire pressure. I use the max sidewall as my maximum, end of story. Can you go over that number? Sure, I guess, but I don't see the point. First of all the improvement in rolling resistance drops quickly beyond a certain pressure. Second, while rolling resistance matters, other stuff matters a whole lot more. Third, don't look for warranty coverage if something should go wrong. Fourth, traction and braking distances start to suffer at very high pressures.
From Honda: owner's manual recommends blah blah, Honda spent mucho dinero coming up with those numbers, thank you for your interest (read: Honda cannot and will not advocate anything on that list for fear of legal repurcussions should anyone have anything happen in a Honda while doing any of them.)
From insurance company: same as above
From law enforcement: We won't say it's illegal but don't do it anyway. (Give us a minute, we'll find some reason for saying that.)
It seems to me that it would be much easier to resolve the power on/off issue by noting that there is another, simpler method, for saving fuel called "pulse and coast" or NICE-on coasting" (I think) wherein you do not shut the car off between pulses, but just slide it into neutral. Not quite as much fuel economy gain, but the difference between the two is not enormous.
As to tire pressures, there is the comprehensive compendium of data at TireRack to turn to. (I love those guys for doing it.)
Tire Tech Information - Sidewall Markings
Click on the "North American Load and Pressure Marking" to read about NA specs and what that maximum pressure on the sidewall actually means (clif note: it means the maximum cold pressure according to the tire manufacturer).
There are many more articles on TireRack regarding tire pressure. Also several threads on cleanMPG.com discussing the topic, with some links to government and other studies.
After reading a bunch of that information I came to my own conclusions regarding tire pressure. I use the max sidewall as my maximum, end of story. Can you go over that number? Sure, I guess, but I don't see the point. First of all the improvement in rolling resistance drops quickly beyond a certain pressure. Second, while rolling resistance matters, other stuff matters a whole lot more. Third, don't look for warranty coverage if something should go wrong. Fourth, traction and braking distances start to suffer at very high pressures.
Last edited by wdb; 05-31-2008 at 08:44 PM.
#113
06-01-2008, 12:48 AM
Valid points guys, but here is the official word from safecar.gov on the subject;
Safercar.gov
This is basically what I was saying, the max tire wall marking is only for the tire, not for the car. The max sidewall marking represents a safe pressure you can bring the tire to (cold PSI) without stressing the tire past it's designed capacity. Granted there is a safety factor, but I would say the dangers of experiencing a blow out are much higher and probably not worth the risk.
They also had this quick blurb on the risks of over inflating the tires;
Safercar.gov
What about the psi number listed on the side of my tires? Should I fill my tires to that pressure? Tires are manufactured for many different vehicle makes and models of vehicles. And the psi number on the side of a tire only reflects the “maximum permissible” inflation pressure for that tire — not necessarily the correct psi for your vehicle. When filling your tires, always follow your vehicle manufacturer’s psi recommendations. You’ll find this psi number on your vehicle’s tire information label, as well as in your vehicle owner’s manual.
They also had this quick blurb on the risks of over inflating the tires;
What does the psi number on the tire placard or label have to do with tire safety? What are the risks of underinflating or overinflating?
The psi, or pounds per square inch, number on your tire placard or label represents the pressure you should fill your vehicle’s tires with to ensure tire safety. Under- and overinflating tires can both be safety hazards. Overinflating tires can adversely affect vehicle maneuverability, make the ride harsher, and sometimes lead to loss of control and crashes. Underinflating tires – a potentially more serious problem – can result in tire stress due to overheating, irregular wear of tread, tire failure, and sometimes loss of driver control and crashes. So obviously you’ll want to know the correct psi for your vehicle, check your tire pressure at least once a month with a tire gauge, and adjust tire pressure accordingly.
The psi, or pounds per square inch, number on your tire placard or label represents the pressure you should fill your vehicle’s tires with to ensure tire safety. Under- and overinflating tires can both be safety hazards. Overinflating tires can adversely affect vehicle maneuverability, make the ride harsher, and sometimes lead to loss of control and crashes. Underinflating tires – a potentially more serious problem – can result in tire stress due to overheating, irregular wear of tread, tire failure, and sometimes loss of driver control and crashes. So obviously you’ll want to know the correct psi for your vehicle, check your tire pressure at least once a month with a tire gauge, and adjust tire pressure accordingly.
Last edited by Sugarphreak; 06-01-2008 at 12:55 AM.
#114
06-01-2008, 04:54 PM
Please have a look and provide feedback; please note I will not add in anything that supports one side or another to keep this fair. Additional technical questions or clarifications are welcome and will be incorperated.
Honda Canada,
Dir Sir/Madame,
I am witting to you with several important questions with specific regards to safety and concerns with operating your automobiles. Recently new techniques have been developed to improve fuel consumption which involves using methods normally not considered during normal vehicle operation. This letter is on behalf of several people from an online community who have been discussing these techniques online and would like to know if Honda would encourage the use to improve the vehicles obtainable gas mileage or discourage them for safety reasons or concerns that damage or increased wear would occur.
The methods currently being discussed are listed below; they are being considered for use on public roads, all questions apply both to automatic and standard transmissions. It would be very helpful if you could provide a detailed and specific answer for each one so we can publish the answers online for anybody who may be considering using them.
1) Is it safe to turn the car off at a red light to conserve fuel?
2) Is it safe to turn the engine off and coast to a stop?
-This question applies to both being in gear and out of gear
3) Is it safe to turn the engine off at highway speeds and coast, then restart the engine?
-Is there any possibility of damage or increased wear on parts?
4) Can we increase the air pressure of the tires above the recommended PSI safely?
-If yes, how much above the recommended PSI can you still operate the vehicle at safely?
Our primary concern of course is safety as I suspect Honda’s is as well. I appreciate your time in responding to this letter,
Regards
(Sugarphreaks Name
)
Dir Sir/Madame,
I am witting to you with several important questions with specific regards to safety and concerns with operating your automobiles. Recently new techniques have been developed to improve fuel consumption which involves using methods normally not considered during normal vehicle operation. This letter is on behalf of several people from an online community who have been discussing these techniques online and would like to know if Honda would encourage the use to improve the vehicles obtainable gas mileage or discourage them for safety reasons or concerns that damage or increased wear would occur.
The methods currently being discussed are listed below; they are being considered for use on public roads, all questions apply both to automatic and standard transmissions. It would be very helpful if you could provide a detailed and specific answer for each one so we can publish the answers online for anybody who may be considering using them.
1) Is it safe to turn the car off at a red light to conserve fuel?
2) Is it safe to turn the engine off and coast to a stop?
-This question applies to both being in gear and out of gear
3) Is it safe to turn the engine off at highway speeds and coast, then restart the engine?
-Is there any possibility of damage or increased wear on parts?
4) Can we increase the air pressure of the tires above the recommended PSI safely?
-If yes, how much above the recommended PSI can you still operate the vehicle at safely?
Our primary concern of course is safety as I suspect Honda’s is as well. I appreciate your time in responding to this letter,
Regards
(Sugarphreaks Name
)
#115
06-01-2008, 04:58 PM
Just another hypermiler
I was taught all the ins and outs of hypermiling many years ago by my father. MPG is nothing new to auto's. Its been a factor from the beginning. Be it in street cars and trucks or racing.
Most of what has been bantered around in this thread is BS. And some have took there fears to extremes.
Learning to improve ones mpg is a learning process. Plain and simple. To think one should go out and coast with the engine off with out learning other stuff first is insane. And I do understand that fear. I know folks that shouldn't be allowed to drive. And if one of them went off and busted off a engine off coast it could be deadly. IE something my wife should NEVER DO!
First thing to do is slow down. Try the posted speed limits. Its a real good place to start. But very hard to do some times. It would seem humans have a herding mentality. Nothing wrong with being at the pack of the pack.
Brush up on lane usage. Off and exit ramps. Do you really know how to merge into traffic. Many claim they do. But all one has to do is hit any freeway in the USA and you find out. Many haven't a clue.
Start thinking about throttle, brake and clutch use. Does one really need the Vtec to that red light down the road. How about that stop sign some fool put in your way. Do you really need to go after it like you want to be a rail gun bullet? You start seeing easy on the gas,,, easy on the brakes. And wow my brakes and gas might last longer. And they do.
With your eyes scanning for lights, stop signs and traffic flow you become much more aware. You see things different. You notice behavior of other drivers. Intentions from other drivers. There becomes a wealth of info right before your eyes. Its like you get cop eyes. You see expired tags. You see folks smoking a joint much faster. You see the lady SUV driver with a hands free and handset phone both going at the same time. You see the guy thats going to pull out in traffic before others do. Or the red light runner or stop sign running queen. Its like you go to HD mode. Your mirror usage become quicker and better. Also smoother. Its a skill that just hits you. Being aware is great!
Get some air in those tires. The anti pump it up crowd hasn't a clue. You could get more road noise. But I get less. Yeah the ride is firmer. Heck,, I own a Accord, Mazda3 and a Ranger. If I wanted a smooth freaking ride I would have bought a Town Car. All though the Accord isn't bad. I have ran max side wall psi and above for 25 years. Ive never had a problem and my tires wear great!
05 Accord bought new. Max side wall 44 psi. 72k miles on the OEM tires. Another 10k left on them easy.
2000 Ranger bought new. Max side wall 38 psi. 140k miles on the truck and I just put its third set of tires on it. Almost 70k miles on each set of tires thus far.
07 Mazda3 Sedan bought new. Max side wall 44 psi, run them at 50 psi. 22k miles on the car and more than enough rubber left to get 40k. Most folks wear these tires out between 15k and 30k miles.
Go to any auto-x track and see if you can find a completive car running the auto manufactures door jam recommended psi setting. Most will be close to,,, or at side wall psi and many over it. So out the door goes the old line about less grip and cornering with pumped up tires. Just look at that rumor flying out the door, down the street and into a honey wagon.
Just doing the things above will net you epa and in many case's above epa mpg.
Now you can throw in some ridge riding. Load driving, planing common routes a little better. You would be suprised what can be gained when one looks at other routes. Maybe shutting the engine off in big traffic jams or at very long lights. Doing this stuff will get you several mpg better than epa.
None of the above is in anyway dangerous. If anything you have learned to see just how dangerous other drivers are that use to be like you. Thus giving you the ability to react, plan and survive. All the time getting better mpg and extending the life of your car and its cost of ownership.
You can get extreme. And once you have learned and mastered the basics already mentioned. Nobody will ever know you just went extreme. I just went and picked up some cigs and beer in my 2.3L Mazda. From stone cold, 2.5 mile round trip to the quickie and back I got 35 mpg. Thats better than epa hwy for that car. And not a soul knew I was hypermiling it. And I didn't get way extreme. I just eased on down the road with the sub bumping a little. I could have pulled all the tools out and got 40+ mpg on that loop. But what the hell. I enjoyed the purr of the motor and its exhaust note instead.
Here are a few links about myself and some of my actives.
This is when I owned my 06 Civic. Loved the car. Mine was just a junker and had to go. Honda does spit out a car from time to time that should never be sold. I just happen to be one of the poor suckers that got one.
NewsOn6.com - Tulsa, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports - KOTV.com | Saving Gas With Extreme Driving
Idea's on pushing the Civic's MPG farther - CleanMPG Forums
Here is a write up on my Mazda.
Jeff Townsley reviews the 2007 Mazda 3 S Touring for CleanMPG. - CleanMPG Forums
Remember one does not have to go to extreme measures to have great mpg. Nor do they have to drive like a blind grandparent. Learn the basics. Learn about what you drive. Learn to test yourself and your car in parking lots, abandoned roads and other safe areas.
I for one am glad to see the mpg some Fit drivers are getting. And recommend the car to folks. You would be suprised how many people know nothing of the Fit.
Now if Honda would get on with the CR-Z I could trade my Mazda off.
psy
Most of what has been bantered around in this thread is BS. And some have took there fears to extremes.
Learning to improve ones mpg is a learning process. Plain and simple. To think one should go out and coast with the engine off with out learning other stuff first is insane. And I do understand that fear. I know folks that shouldn't be allowed to drive. And if one of them went off and busted off a engine off coast it could be deadly. IE something my wife should NEVER DO!
First thing to do is slow down. Try the posted speed limits. Its a real good place to start. But very hard to do some times. It would seem humans have a herding mentality. Nothing wrong with being at the pack of the pack.
Brush up on lane usage. Off and exit ramps. Do you really know how to merge into traffic. Many claim they do. But all one has to do is hit any freeway in the USA and you find out. Many haven't a clue.
Start thinking about throttle, brake and clutch use. Does one really need the Vtec to that red light down the road. How about that stop sign some fool put in your way. Do you really need to go after it like you want to be a rail gun bullet? You start seeing easy on the gas,,, easy on the brakes. And wow my brakes and gas might last longer. And they do.
With your eyes scanning for lights, stop signs and traffic flow you become much more aware. You see things different. You notice behavior of other drivers. Intentions from other drivers. There becomes a wealth of info right before your eyes. Its like you get cop eyes. You see expired tags. You see folks smoking a joint much faster. You see the lady SUV driver with a hands free and handset phone both going at the same time. You see the guy thats going to pull out in traffic before others do. Or the red light runner or stop sign running queen. Its like you go to HD mode. Your mirror usage become quicker and better. Also smoother. Its a skill that just hits you. Being aware is great!
Get some air in those tires. The anti pump it up crowd hasn't a clue. You could get more road noise. But I get less. Yeah the ride is firmer. Heck,, I own a Accord, Mazda3 and a Ranger. If I wanted a smooth freaking ride I would have bought a Town Car. All though the Accord isn't bad.
I have ran max side wall psi and above for 25 years. Ive never had a problem and my tires wear great! 05 Accord bought new. Max side wall 44 psi. 72k miles on the OEM tires. Another 10k left on them easy.
2000 Ranger bought new. Max side wall 38 psi. 140k miles on the truck and I just put its third set of tires on it. Almost 70k miles on each set of tires thus far.
07 Mazda3 Sedan bought new. Max side wall 44 psi, run them at 50 psi. 22k miles on the car and more than enough rubber left to get 40k. Most folks wear these tires out between 15k and 30k miles.
Go to any auto-x track and see if you can find a completive car running the auto manufactures door jam recommended psi setting. Most will be close to,,, or at side wall psi and many over it. So out the door goes the old line about less grip and cornering with pumped up tires. Just look at that rumor flying out the door, down the street and into a honey wagon.
Just doing the things above will net you epa and in many case's above epa mpg.
Now you can throw in some ridge riding. Load driving, planing common routes a little better. You would be suprised what can be gained when one looks at other routes. Maybe shutting the engine off in big traffic jams or at very long lights. Doing this stuff will get you several mpg better than epa.
None of the above is in anyway dangerous. If anything you have learned to see just how dangerous other drivers are that use to be like you. Thus giving you the ability to react, plan and survive. All the time getting better mpg and extending the life of your car and its cost of ownership.
You can get extreme. And once you have learned and mastered the basics already mentioned. Nobody will ever know you just went extreme. I just went and picked up some cigs and beer in my 2.3L Mazda. From stone cold, 2.5 mile round trip to the quickie and back I got 35 mpg. Thats better than epa hwy for that car. And not a soul knew I was hypermiling it. And I didn't get way extreme. I just eased on down the road with the sub bumping a little.
I could have pulled all the tools out and got 40+ mpg on that loop. But what the hell. I enjoyed the purr of the motor and its exhaust note instead.Here are a few links about myself and some of my actives.
This is when I owned my 06 Civic. Loved the car. Mine was just a junker and had to go. Honda does spit out a car from time to time that should never be sold. I just happen to be one of the poor suckers that got one.
NewsOn6.com - Tulsa, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports - KOTV.com | Saving Gas With Extreme Driving
Idea's on pushing the Civic's MPG farther - CleanMPG Forums
Here is a write up on my Mazda.
Jeff Townsley reviews the 2007 Mazda 3 S Touring for CleanMPG. - CleanMPG Forums
Remember one does not have to go to extreme measures to have great mpg. Nor do they have to drive like a blind grandparent. Learn the basics. Learn about what you drive. Learn to test yourself and your car in parking lots, abandoned roads and other safe areas.
I for one am glad to see the mpg some Fit drivers are getting. And recommend the car to folks. You would be suprised how many people know nothing of the Fit.
Now if Honda would get on with the CR-Z I could trade my Mazda off.
psy
#116
06-01-2008, 05:02 PM
I'm impressed that you all are organizing this letter campaign, but if I were a wagering man I'd bet on the anwers.
From Honda: owner's manual recommends blah blah, Honda spent mucho dinero coming up with those numbers, thank you for your interest (read: Honda cannot and will not advocate anything on that list for fear of legal repurcussions should anyone have anything happen in a Honda while doing any of them.)
From Honda: owner's manual recommends blah blah, Honda spent mucho dinero coming up with those numbers, thank you for your interest (read: Honda cannot and will not advocate anything on that list for fear of legal repurcussions should anyone have anything happen in a Honda while doing any of them.)
Like I said before though, bottom line is if Honda comes back and says it is not safe to do something we need to take that very seriously.
Encouraging unsafe techniques and methods on this forum is flat out not allowed, getting a clarification from Honda directly is the best way to resolve this as everybody has an opinion. At the end of the day, Honda's opinion is the only one that really counts.
#117
06-01-2008, 05:11 PM
I was taught all the ins and outs of hypermiling many years ago by my father. MPG is nothing new to auto's. Its been a factor from the beginning. Be it in street cars and trucks or racing.
Most of what has been bantered around in this thread is BS. And some have took there fears to extremes.
Learning to improve ones mpg is a learning process. Plain and simple. To think one should go out and coast with the engine off with out learning other stuff first is insane. And I do understand that fear. I know folks that shouldn't be allowed to drive. And if one of them went off and busted off a engine off coast it could be deadly. IE something my wife should NEVER DO!
First thing to do is slow down. Try the posted speed limits. Its a real good place to start. But very hard to do some times. It would seem humans have a herding mentality. Nothing wrong with being at the pack of the pack.
Brush up on lane usage. Off and exit ramps. Do you really know how to merge into traffic. Many claim they do. But all one has to do is hit any freeway in the USA and you find out. Many haven't a clue.
Start thinking about throttle, brake and clutch use. Does one really need the Vtec to that red light down the road. How about that stop sign some fool put in your way. Do you really need to go after it like you want to be a rail gun bullet? You start seeing easy on the gas,,, easy on the brakes. And wow my brakes and gas might last longer. And they do.
With your eyes scanning for lights, stop signs and traffic flow you become much more aware. You see things different. You notice behavior of other drivers. Intentions from other drivers. There becomes a wealth of info right before your eyes. Its like you get cop eyes. You see expired tags. You see folks smoking a joint much faster. You see the lady SUV driver with a hands free and handset phone both going at the same time. You see the guy thats going to pull out in traffic before others do. Or the red light runner or stop sign running queen. Its like you go to HD mode. Your mirror usage become quicker and better. Also smoother. Its a skill that just hits you. Being aware is great!
Get some air in those tires. The anti pump it up crowd hasn't a clue. You could get more road noise. But I get less. Yeah the ride is firmer. Heck,, I own a Accord, Mazda3 and a Ranger. If I wanted a smooth freaking ride I would have bought a Town Car. All though the Accord isn't bad. I have ran max side wall psi and above for 25 years. Ive never had a problem and my tires wear great!
05 Accord bought new. Max side wall 44 psi. 72k miles on the OEM tires. Another 10k left on them easy.
2000 Ranger bought new. Max side wall 38 psi. 140k miles on the truck and I just put its third set of tires on it. Almost 70k miles on each set of tires thus far.
07 Mazda3 Sedan bought new. Max side wall 44 psi, run them at 50 psi. 22k miles on the car and more than enough rubber left to get 40k. Most folks wear these tires out between 15k and 30k miles.
Go to any auto-x track and see if you can find a completive car running the auto manufactures door jam recommended psi setting. Most will be close to,,, or at side wall psi and many over it. So out the door goes the old line about less grip and cornering with pumped up tires. Just look at that rumor flying out the door, down the street and into a honey wagon.
Just doing the things above will net you epa and in many case's above epa mpg.
Now you can throw in some ridge riding. Load driving, planing common routes a little better. You would be suprised what can be gained when one looks at other routes. Maybe shutting the engine off in big traffic jams or at very long lights. Doing this stuff will get you several mpg better than epa.
None of the above is in anyway dangerous. If anything you have learned to see just how dangerous other drivers are that use to be like you. Thus giving you the ability to react, plan and survive. All the time getting better mpg and extending the life of your car and its cost of ownership.
You can get extreme. And once you have learned and mastered the basics already mentioned. Nobody will ever know you just went extreme. I just went and picked up some cigs and beer in my 2.3L Mazda. From stone cold, 2.5 mile round trip to the quickie and back I got 35 mpg. Thats better than epa hwy for that car. And not a soul knew I was hypermiling it. And I didn't get way extreme. I just eased on down the road with the sub bumping a little. I could have pulled all the tools out and got 40+ mpg on that loop. But what the hell. I enjoyed the purr of the motor and its exhaust note instead.
Here are a few links about myself and some of my actives.
This is when I owned my 06 Civic. Loved the car. Mine was just a junker and had to go. Honda does spit out a car from time to time that should never be sold. I just happen to be one of the poor suckers that got one.
NewsOn6.com - Tulsa, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports - KOTV.com | Saving Gas With Extreme Driving
Idea's on pushing the Civic's MPG farther - CleanMPG Forums
Here is a write up on my Mazda.
Jeff Townsley reviews the 2007 Mazda 3 S Touring for CleanMPG. - CleanMPG Forums
Remember one does not have to go to extreme measures to have great mpg. Nor do they have to drive like a blind grandparent. Learn the basics. Learn about what you drive. Learn to test yourself and your car in parking lots, abandoned roads and other safe areas.
I for one am glad to see the mpg some Fit drivers are getting. And recommend the car to folks. You would be suprised how many people know nothing of the Fit.
Now if Honda would get on with the CR-Z I could trade my Mazda off.
psy
Most of what has been bantered around in this thread is BS. And some have took there fears to extremes.
Learning to improve ones mpg is a learning process. Plain and simple. To think one should go out and coast with the engine off with out learning other stuff first is insane. And I do understand that fear. I know folks that shouldn't be allowed to drive. And if one of them went off and busted off a engine off coast it could be deadly. IE something my wife should NEVER DO!
First thing to do is slow down. Try the posted speed limits. Its a real good place to start. But very hard to do some times. It would seem humans have a herding mentality. Nothing wrong with being at the pack of the pack.
Brush up on lane usage. Off and exit ramps. Do you really know how to merge into traffic. Many claim they do. But all one has to do is hit any freeway in the USA and you find out. Many haven't a clue.
Start thinking about throttle, brake and clutch use. Does one really need the Vtec to that red light down the road. How about that stop sign some fool put in your way. Do you really need to go after it like you want to be a rail gun bullet? You start seeing easy on the gas,,, easy on the brakes. And wow my brakes and gas might last longer. And they do.
With your eyes scanning for lights, stop signs and traffic flow you become much more aware. You see things different. You notice behavior of other drivers. Intentions from other drivers. There becomes a wealth of info right before your eyes. Its like you get cop eyes. You see expired tags. You see folks smoking a joint much faster. You see the lady SUV driver with a hands free and handset phone both going at the same time. You see the guy thats going to pull out in traffic before others do. Or the red light runner or stop sign running queen. Its like you go to HD mode. Your mirror usage become quicker and better. Also smoother. Its a skill that just hits you. Being aware is great!
Get some air in those tires. The anti pump it up crowd hasn't a clue. You could get more road noise. But I get less. Yeah the ride is firmer. Heck,, I own a Accord, Mazda3 and a Ranger. If I wanted a smooth freaking ride I would have bought a Town Car. All though the Accord isn't bad.
I have ran max side wall psi and above for 25 years. Ive never had a problem and my tires wear great! 05 Accord bought new. Max side wall 44 psi. 72k miles on the OEM tires. Another 10k left on them easy.
2000 Ranger bought new. Max side wall 38 psi. 140k miles on the truck and I just put its third set of tires on it. Almost 70k miles on each set of tires thus far.
07 Mazda3 Sedan bought new. Max side wall 44 psi, run them at 50 psi. 22k miles on the car and more than enough rubber left to get 40k. Most folks wear these tires out between 15k and 30k miles.
Go to any auto-x track and see if you can find a completive car running the auto manufactures door jam recommended psi setting. Most will be close to,,, or at side wall psi and many over it. So out the door goes the old line about less grip and cornering with pumped up tires. Just look at that rumor flying out the door, down the street and into a honey wagon.
Just doing the things above will net you epa and in many case's above epa mpg.
Now you can throw in some ridge riding. Load driving, planing common routes a little better. You would be suprised what can be gained when one looks at other routes. Maybe shutting the engine off in big traffic jams or at very long lights. Doing this stuff will get you several mpg better than epa.
None of the above is in anyway dangerous. If anything you have learned to see just how dangerous other drivers are that use to be like you. Thus giving you the ability to react, plan and survive. All the time getting better mpg and extending the life of your car and its cost of ownership.
You can get extreme. And once you have learned and mastered the basics already mentioned. Nobody will ever know you just went extreme. I just went and picked up some cigs and beer in my 2.3L Mazda. From stone cold, 2.5 mile round trip to the quickie and back I got 35 mpg. Thats better than epa hwy for that car. And not a soul knew I was hypermiling it. And I didn't get way extreme. I just eased on down the road with the sub bumping a little.
I could have pulled all the tools out and got 40+ mpg on that loop. But what the hell. I enjoyed the purr of the motor and its exhaust note instead.Here are a few links about myself and some of my actives.
This is when I owned my 06 Civic. Loved the car. Mine was just a junker and had to go. Honda does spit out a car from time to time that should never be sold. I just happen to be one of the poor suckers that got one.
NewsOn6.com - Tulsa, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports - KOTV.com | Saving Gas With Extreme Driving
Idea's on pushing the Civic's MPG farther - CleanMPG Forums
Here is a write up on my Mazda.
Jeff Townsley reviews the 2007 Mazda 3 S Touring for CleanMPG. - CleanMPG Forums
Remember one does not have to go to extreme measures to have great mpg. Nor do they have to drive like a blind grandparent. Learn the basics. Learn about what you drive. Learn to test yourself and your car in parking lots, abandoned roads and other safe areas.
I for one am glad to see the mpg some Fit drivers are getting. And recommend the car to folks. You would be suprised how many people know nothing of the Fit.
Now if Honda would get on with the CR-Z I could trade my Mazda off.
psy
Thanks for signing up here, I agree 100% with you that there are tons of tecniques that are safe and could be adopted by your fellow hypermilers. I even use a few of the techniques you mentioned myself
I personally think getting great mileage dosn't need too much effort, keep reasonable PSI in the tires and use a few of the methods you mentioned.
It is true that AutoX does encourage you to run about 10lbs more on average, I personally run about 40psi for events (although I am dropping down to 38 for my next event as I am fine tuning the best pressure). But important to keep in mind that is to prevent tire roll on extreme cornering and reduces your braking and ONLY used on a closed course. I can tell you definitivly at anything more than 42psi the Fit starts to loose it's edge and handeling goes down the tubes. While I think running the reccomended 32psi for the Fit is good, I wouldn't encourage people to use more than 36psi on public roads or you will start aversely affecting your handeling.
Basically my concerns come into play when people start taking things to extremes as you mentioned. Good information is the best tool we can offer to anybody who wants to improve thier mileage.
Last edited by Sugarphreak; 06-01-2008 at 05:26 PM.
#118
06-01-2008, 05:48 PM
Ive been trying to get a braking test put together and conducted out at our local airport. I made the mistake of asking permission to do the testing instead of just going out there and doing it. So now its hung up in the bureaucrats in and out bins.
My outline for the testing would be straight panic stop and offset panic stop on warmed up driven tires at normal psi and max side wall psi. And then above max sidewall. The cars used would be our Accord, MZ3, Ranger and one of our daughters Camry with no ABS and another daughters Corolla with no ABS. Also the test would be done with engine on and off.
Tire psi is a very personnel thing. Whats good for me in my car may be bad for another driver in there car. My Civic got greasy if I ran the rears much above 55 psi. 48 to 52 psi all the way around seem to work great with it. The Accord I can corner it hard enough with 44 psi in the tires to lift the inside rear wheel off the ground. The Ranger,,, Well its a truck. Handel's like a truck and thats that. The Mazda likes 47 to 50 psi on all four corners. If I drop the psi down to door jam specs. Its like driving the Ranger. It will wallow around on the side walls and threaten to break the bead when cornering hard.
So to each there own. But know when a auto co. makes there recommendation on tire psi. Its going to be for comfort. Not only to the owner/driver. But for there lawyers. And if they miss like Ford did. Then the lawyers have to work also. If idiot Americans will sue over the temp. of coffee. Just think what the retards do to auto companys at the drop of a hat. Remember the nag screen on Honda's Navi. Thats retards and lawyers at work.
My outline for the testing would be straight panic stop and offset panic stop on warmed up driven tires at normal psi and max side wall psi. And then above max sidewall. The cars used would be our Accord, MZ3, Ranger and one of our daughters Camry with no ABS and another daughters Corolla with no ABS. Also the test would be done with engine on and off.
Tire psi is a very personnel thing. Whats good for me in my car may be bad for another driver in there car. My Civic got greasy if I ran the rears much above 55 psi. 48 to 52 psi all the way around seem to work great with it. The Accord I can corner it hard enough with 44 psi in the tires to lift the inside rear wheel off the ground. The Ranger,,, Well its a truck. Handel's like a truck and thats that. The Mazda likes 47 to 50 psi on all four corners. If I drop the psi down to door jam specs. Its like driving the Ranger. It will wallow around on the side walls and threaten to break the bead when cornering hard.
So to each there own. But know when a auto co. makes there recommendation on tire psi. Its going to be for comfort. Not only to the owner/driver. But for there lawyers. And if they miss like Ford did. Then the lawyers have to work also. If idiot Americans will sue over the temp. of coffee. Just think what the retards do to auto companys at the drop of a hat. Remember the nag screen on Honda's Navi. Thats retards and lawyers at work.
#120
06-01-2008, 06:11 PM
There's a lot of good info from an experienced driver in psyshack's posting if you will just read it through.
Several other things:
(1) The Insight, the Prius, the Civic Hybrid, and possibly other hybrids will all AUTOMATICALLY turn off their engines while they are MOVING under certain conditions. In the Insight, for example, the engine will shut down if you are going under 20mph and shift into neutral. I seriously doubt if Honda will tell you that is dangerous or not approved!
(2) Law enforcement experts recommend using max sidewall pressure in police vehicles' tires. See psyshack's link in the previous post.
(3) It's "hypermiling" not "hypermilling" (that sounds like something one would do in a machine shop?). And it does have an exact meaning: to hypermile means "to achieve higher mpg than your vehicle's EPA rating"
(4) For everyone who's fussed about changing speeds during P&G, you P&G over a much narrower speed range when traffic is behind you, for exactly this reason. A range of 5mph or perhaps less. It really is not a problem, especially if you glide the downhills and pulse the uphills if there are any on your route.
You really should try some of the simpler methods. They really are not as scary as some people here seem to think they are, and as psyshack says will lead to a greater ability to control your Fit and drive safely.
Several other things:
(1) The Insight, the Prius, the Civic Hybrid, and possibly other hybrids will all AUTOMATICALLY turn off their engines while they are MOVING under certain conditions. In the Insight, for example, the engine will shut down if you are going under 20mph and shift into neutral. I seriously doubt if Honda will tell you that is dangerous or not approved!
(2) Law enforcement experts recommend using max sidewall pressure in police vehicles' tires. See psyshack's link in the previous post.
(3) It's "hypermiling" not "hypermilling" (that sounds like something one would do in a machine shop?). And it does have an exact meaning: to hypermile means "to achieve higher mpg than your vehicle's EPA rating"
(4) For everyone who's fussed about changing speeds during P&G, you P&G over a much narrower speed range when traffic is behind you, for exactly this reason. A range of 5mph or perhaps less. It really is not a problem, especially if you glide the downhills and pulse the uphills if there are any on your route.
You really should try some of the simpler methods. They really are not as scary as some people here seem to think they are, and as psyshack says will lead to a greater ability to control your Fit and drive safely.
Last edited by lightfoot; 06-01-2008 at 06:31 PM.