dang manxman you're the biggest idiot of all, and the worst part is that you don't even know it and you think you're so smart. you're the most ignorant of everyone here. how can you make so many judgements about people when you know nothing about them. you don't know who has studied science or who has a Phd. you're just talking out of your piehole like truth spills out of it. if someone doesn't believe in the efficacy of this thing you posted why are you going off on people being uneducated and ignorant? it's like you're just looking for a reason to piss people off?

anyway man, i hope you get what you're looking for out of all this, i'm done.

 

You finally said something sensible "Doctor"----- "i'm done".

 

Could there be something to it? maybe, but I don't think it's likely.

 

The principles of physics and chemistry that this system is based upon are real. What they do with them, the end result on cars, and how they market the hardware are unknown. Saying "it cant work" is not a true statement. Saying "it can't work because it looks just like all the other scam auto products" is also untrue.

It is true that it looks like all the scams. That still doesn't change the science facts. You can't burn water, but you can electrolytically separate and burn, as fuel, water molecules on a continual basis. Based on other information that I have obtained, I won't buy the system. Not because I believe that it won't work, but because even if I drove three times my present yearly mileage, it would take two years at present fuel prices for the system to pay itself off. There are other possible negative effects that could result in normal system use that I won't risk on a new car.

If I drove a large heavy SUV that was out of warranty, I might try the system anyway. For now, I would rather put the money into other things for my car.

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" - traditional folk wisdom expression.

"You can lead a horse's a$$ to information, but you can't make him think" -.

Jeff- I got called away before I finished this- I meant to say-- thanks for thinking.

 

Manxman,

Your ignorance is overwhelming.

 

Sure, but you get less work out than you put in. People can break consumer protection laws, but they can't break the second law of thermodynamics.

 

Answer my simple questions about properties of gases and an existent diesel engine design, and I will show you how the universal law of increasing entropy does not apply to the design theory of this system.

Now, to stop the boring, crazy tantrums, this IS a SCAM. Not because of the knee-jerk "just like the stuff on TV" snap judgments, but because of the crooked marketing traps. You all used scientific misconceptions as your reason to yell SCAM, when in fact such a system COULD work. The information that tells you that this one doesn't is:

1. You can't buy with a credit card, so you can't use the fraud protection built into your card purchases.

2. Too expensive.

3. The money-back warranty is contingent upon ECU reprogramming by a company-trained certified tech. There aren't any. If there were ("you too can be trained for an exciting career as one of our certified techs. and earn up to $200. an hour! Click here to apply!"), so if you could find one, you would have to further increase your system cost by having someone screw up the programming of your stock ECU.

4. The caustic chemical electrolyte used in the cell eats paint and rubber hoses, and you have to constantly suck water that collects in an in-line trap out with a provided syringe and inject it back into the cell. Sooner or later, jarring from potholes, curb rashes or minor fender benders will scatter enough electrolyte around to turn your engine bay into a bucket of rust with non-stop vacuum and water leaks.

In a different thread, by merely stating my personal reasons for not buying a popular intake system, the result was an endless stream of attacks from crazy, childish people. The response from the intake manufacturer was also what I had expected- the statement that I had a valid concern. It did not bother them that I would wait to buy until the system was CARB exempt, but it enraged the crazies.

I thought that I'd see what this thread would do, and heard from many of the same people. I will do it again when I find some more interesting and controversial stuff. Watching negative, unstable people implode is fun.

 

WOW! THAT SAYS IT ALL RIGHT THERE PEOPLE! haahahaaaa
the irony abounds!....haahaa by leaps and bounds.

 

did anyone by chance read why his post was edited?...more IRONY

its #34 in this thread...

 

Whew at least you are taking the heat this time. For me it only took a slight scan of the information to negate the need to read in depth. The number one warning sign for any "Product" is unconditional money back guaranties, if you see that then beware because then they can make any claim they want.

But this line was the evidence that it's a scam... "The Vaporizer contains 6 powerful magnets to help ionize the fuel and break it down into tiny sized molecules for easier consumption, a cleaner burn, and a more thorough utilization of the fuel."

Dave you have been skipping around the science on this one statement. This claim has been investigated by the government and even MYTHBUSTERS has done a segment on magnets and their effect on FUEL and fuel consumption. The results in ALL CASES is the magnets DO NOTHING to the fuel because magnets have no effect on liquids that HAVE NO IRON PARTICLES to effect. There is even a post or two right here on Fitfreak with the dates and information from the testing I know because I posted them.

As for the diesel question I'm leaving that one for you. For once I'm having fun sitting back and watching someone else take the heat for a change.

Some of you guys need to lighten up and look up some words in a dictionary before you get your back up, being told you are ignorant is NOT a reason to get all pissed off. Like Dave said it just means you HAVE NOT YET LEARNED ABOUT THE SUBJECT MATERIAL not you CAN'T learn only that you haven't had the information presented to you or you have not taken the time to learn it yourself. Being told you are ignorant is not a pejorative (go look that one up).

 

im sorry but it offends me when someone thinks less of you just because of your age. some of my comments were out of line, but i was not the one who cast the first stone. the op may be very knowledgeable about diesel engines and science, but it is in bad taste to flaunt your knowledge and belittle people for using common sense. all you needed to know that that was a scam was common sense. it may be a scientifically sound concept, but communism was also a great theory on paper.

it is counter-productive to look for ignorant people by posting something you KNOW you will catch heat for.

it may not be a bad thing to be ignorant but it sure isnt nice to call someone that to their face. (or through the internet for that matter)

 

WHY ...... as I just explained ignorance is not a BAD thing it can be cured by learning.

 

claymore,

You are worth a reply as I knew that you would be. This was a set-up. I read the full page ad in Popular Mechanics magazine (wow, if it's in a magazine like this, it MUST be true, right?). Because of the knowledge of the person to whom I am replying, I will be detailed. The members with the attention span of a fruit fly should stop reading and do something else.

Of course the web site had many classic scam indicators, especially the money-back guarantee. The actor sticking his face in the Briggs engine exhaust and smiling to demonstrate how clean it was made me laugh like Dan Ayckroyd's SNL "Bass-O-Matic" TV commercial.

There is so much ridiculous stuff on the Eco forum regarding extreme attempts to squeeze one more mpg out of the car, that I was trying to find out if there were any people who were curious enough to look for the science that makes up the platform for this advertising. In the new-found public and corporate interest in fuel efficiency there has been a lot of talk about hydrogen fueled engines, and fuel cell engines. Those two expressions are not understood by anyone who believes that the mechanics and chemistry of this scam system could not work.

Hydrogen fueled engines exist. They can move cars. You will never be able to buy one, and you will never see a hydrogen dispenser at a gas station, simply because generating, handling, and dispensing it are so dangerous. There are working fuel cell cars. The fuel that is generated is hydrogen. Where does the hydrogen that is used in both of these systems come from? From the electrolytic dissolution of water into its component flammable parts- hydrogen and oxygen. What used to make batteries blow up in the old days? Leaking hydrogen and a spark. How flammable is pure oxygen? Read the warning signs in any hospital room. In an oxyacetylene torch, what gas is used for cutting- the acetylene? No.

The skim readers seemed to think that this add-on system was supposed to generate enough fuel to run the car. Wrong. It is supposed to generate enough hydrogen and oxygen to supplement the gasoline air/fuel mixture. Instead of using a chemical reaction to generate electricity, with the byproduct being hydrogen gas, this system uses electricity, water, and a chemical reaction to generate only hydrogen and oxygen. A lot more of it than is produced by a lead/acid battery.

Because saying that "you can use water to fuel your car" sounds too good to be true, does not make it a lie. It is true. You just can't use water for that purpose without manipulating it back into its component parts. If that were not true, no one would be using hydrogen fueled engines or fuel cell engines in research projects as a means to eliminate the need to buy foreign oil or continue depleting our own, all to fuel engines that pollute the air.

Combining hydrogen and oxygen (the pure stuff- not the small amounts that are in the air we and our engines breathe) with the normal atomized gasoline that fuels the engine, in the correct ratio, would produce much more power than the gasoline/air mixture alone. So much so that the delivery of the fuel injectors would have to be significantly reduced. Hence the need to have "one of our certified technicians" reprogram the ECU.

Now for the "magnets-ho-ho-must be bullshit" crowd- you too claymore:

The second part of this "system"- as yet unreleased, coming March 5, oh, boy! is a plasma generator that is supposed to further enhance the gasoline/hydrogen/oxygen fuel mixture through ionization. Sticking magnets around your fuel line does have a big effect- the effect of making you look like an idiot

Magnets (ELECTROMAGNETS) are part of the systems that transform organic gases into ionized gas streams known as PLASMA- the fourth state of matter. You get sunburned by an ionized gas cloud up in the sky. A man-made ionized gas stream is used to melt and propel the ceramic coating on headers. It puts the porous ceramic coating on the platinum core of every 02 sensor in every automotive exhaust system (to keep the platinum from being eroded away by heat, high velocity gas, and hydrocarbons).

I could take up pages with the description of the components of plasma thermal spray systems, but most people will be bored with it because they lack the education to understand it. As previously posted, a simple bottle of gas from a welding shop can be turned into a "flame" generating 10,000 degrees F and speeds approaching Mach 1. The flame is not one of combustion, like a match or a fire in your fireplace. It is a stream of excited molecules created by a magnetic field, and a venturi with a very high amperage electric arc. What keeps the metal gun that generates 10-12,000 degrees from melting? A really big heat exchanger supplying cold water that absorbs the heat in the venturi (nozzle) where the "flame" is created. I have sold these systems, installed them, trained the techs., and used them on GE, Pratt & Whitney, Rolls Royce, and Garrett Airesearch jet engine components all over the U.S. along with thousands of other applications that are in your car, in your computer and TV monitor, in your solar panels, and in your home.

The videos mixed and matched too many ideas, factual science, and "SNL Bass-O-Matic" demonstrations, to make any real sense, but some of the ideas could work if developed into the right package.

Curiosity is an indicator of intelligence. The lack of one indicates the lack of the other. By this I am not saying that if you didn't explore this scheme beyond the scam earmarks, you are stupid. I don't believe that, in spite of some of the absurd questions asked on all of the forums.

But as I posted in the thread, a lot of the scientific foundation in this website, unfortunately clothed in transparent b.s. (like Asimo wearing black socks, brown shoes, and flowered Bermuda shorts) makes the whole thing seem impossible. It is not impossible. My bet is that we will see some form of this from a different manufacturer (or car maker) who does not need the scam sales tactics to successfully market it.

 

Your actual age has nothing to do with the fact that I think less of you, and I don't think less of you all the time. I think less of you when you act like a three-year-old 'tard in some of your posts. Hence the "little Kelsey" reference. I assume that you must actually have more intelligence and maturity than you demonstrate in some of your comments. I could be wrong though. Some geezer you piss off today might murder you.

 

The "no oil, no coolant diesel engine question"

It is called the "Adiabatic Engine", built at the Cummins Engine headquarters in Indiana in 1982-83. Using many of the plasma thermal spray applied coatings of ceramics for heat resistance, porous ceramics to hold vacuum impregnated polymeric wax, gliding metals like molybdenum, diamond polish finish on various bearing surfaces, the engine is perfectly happy without the presence of crankcase oil, oil pump, radiator or liquid coolant. It does have a great big fan though.

It was built just to see if it would work. It is till working. I watched it in development as a representative of the company that made the plasma spray system and the coatings materials that were used on the engine components.

 

To the ignorant posters on all of these forums-------

How come the "meanest" guy in the ff.net membership- "claymore", is the only one who gets it? We are ALL ignorant. Ignorance is a fact, not an insult. Well, maybe if you told Einstein, Szillard, Oppenheimer and others that they were ignorant about physics, (who are these guys?) they would rightly be insulted, but it would still be true. The team who developed the atomic bomb still did not know everything about nuclear physics. Therefor they were ignorant.

 

Guys please cut this out and get back on topic.
If you think hes ignorant dont sink to his level and vise versa for all of you.
Any more of this will equal LOCK.

Tyler

 

I think that you misunderstand me again, Tyler. I wasn't talking about this geezer- I don't care what the other members say or do. My obtuse comment meant that some of the behavior on the forums could get you killed out in public, and certainly not by another fitfreak. If he used the same insults and attitudes on the guy next to him at a gas station or behind him at In-N-Out Burgers, the reply might be a knife or a gun.

Therefor, he obviously has more maturity, sense, and social grace elsewhere than he has here- otherwise he'd be dead.

Sorry if I confused anybody- I don't advocate violence in any circumstance. Mea culpa.

 

I dont think i misunderstood a thing Dave.
You guys were off topic talking about who's ignorant and what not. I said get back in line with the thread.

Either way you look at it, its a direct insult to Kelsodeez and the way he posts on this forum which is against the rules here at FitFreak. Not only that but you were also off topic during this conversation.

Thank you
Tyler

 

Fine. Now look up "mea culpa" please.