2009 Fit has higher gear ratios
#1
2009 Fit has higher gear ratios
Honda Worldwide | October 18, 2007 "Honda to Begin Sales of the All-New Fit in Japan"
I'm not sure if this is talking about the CVT, or all of them. Hopefully the MT will get higher 5th gear like in the new Canada fit.
Powertrain
The Fit’s continuous variable transmission delivers enhanced drive and off-the-line acceleration thanks to the implementation of a new torque converter. Higher gear ratios also help improve fuel economy by keeping rpms low during cruising. The low-friction, high-efficiency oil pump and pulleys as well as a new creep control system provide optimized creep control at low speeds and during idling for improved fuel economy.
The Fit’s continuous variable transmission delivers enhanced drive and off-the-line acceleration thanks to the implementation of a new torque converter. Higher gear ratios also help improve fuel economy by keeping rpms low during cruising. The low-friction, high-efficiency oil pump and pulleys as well as a new creep control system provide optimized creep control at low speeds and during idling for improved fuel economy.
#2
why does everyone want a taller 5th gear for? it will essentially make 5th gear only useful for cruising and anytime you want to pass you'd have to either do it incredibly slowly due to poor acceleration with the taller gearing, or downshift to 4th which would probably negate the little fuel you save from cruising in a taller 5th gear.
#3
5th has always been a sort of overdrive gear, I would take the taller gear anyday to improve my mileage on the highway! If I need to pass somebody I just downshift to 4th, it is good all the way up to 120km (75mph). As far as the mileage goes, I get about 40mpg to 44mpg on the highway and I always downshift on hills and when I pass.
#4
why does everyone want a taller 5th gear for? it will essentially make 5th gear only useful for cruising and anytime you want to pass you'd have to either do it incredibly slowly due to poor acceleration with the taller gearing, or downshift to 4th which would probably negate the little fuel you save from cruising in a taller 5th gear.
#5
Yes but think of it this way, if you already have to downshift to 4th like all of us have to do when we pass or scale a graded road with 5th the way it is now, imagine how much more we'd have to do it if 5th was even weaker(taller).
The 5AT guys get less highway mileage than us, but their 5th gear rotates at a lower RPM than the same speed in the 5MT, but it requires the auto to downshift a lot more (so I assume, haven't driven an automatic Fit), but when I had my '06 Civic auto even that would gear hunt a lot, especially on the highway.
The 5AT guys get less highway mileage than us, but their 5th gear rotates at a lower RPM than the same speed in the 5MT, but it requires the auto to downshift a lot more (so I assume, haven't driven an automatic Fit), but when I had my '06 Civic auto even that would gear hunt a lot, especially on the highway.
#6
why does everyone want a taller 5th gear for? it will essentially make 5th gear only useful for cruising and anytime you want to pass you'd have to either do it incredibly slowly due to poor acceleration with the taller gearing, or downshift to 4th which would probably negate the little fuel you save from cruising in a taller 5th gear.
Last edited by Fitty McFit; 10-24-2007 at 07:21 PM.
#7
The Fit is an economy car. If you want to go fast you should get a Civic SI. We would have liked to have a lower 5th gear because having the car geared so low negates some of the fuel-efficiency benefit of having a small engine. If you're just cruising down the highway, you don't need a lot of torque; an overdrive 5th gear would be much more useful. Too bad Honda had to wait 'til they redesigned the car to think of it.
Last edited by Chikubi; 10-23-2007 at 04:24 AM.
#8
It's not about driving fast, it's about being practical. As it is I'm happy that I can leave the car in 5th gear to pass on the highway, even before I had any mods and when the engine was still just putting out 109hp. I'm not sure what more you could ask for, people here say they get over 40mpg on the highway with their 5MT which is well above the EPA ratings, as it is I average about 33/4 mixed driving. There's not much more out there that gets better mileage than that outside of the Yaris and Hybrids. You can't just take overdrive ratios and throw them into cars with no power, have you seen any dynos of our car? At 2500rpm we're probably putting down around 40hp at the wheels, that plus an almost direct linkage to the crankshaft isn't going to move the car anywhere and you will ALWAYS be downshifting to pass and go up grades, which like the 5AT models will cause your mileage to actually go down. If you want a car with an overdrive get something with more power that actually needs to use it for better mileage, otherwise be happy with the fact that you can get 40mpg highway and still be able to pass people in 5th gear with 109hp.
#9
All good points too. Another thing to keep in mind -- by definition, the Fit already has an overdrive, actually 2 in fact b/c both 4th and 5th are lower than a 1:1 ratio. And interestingly, if you compare the ratios between the MT and AT you'll see that the AT's 4th gear is practically identical to the MT's 5th, with the AT's 5th being even longer. Even so, the AT still gets lower mileage in general than the MT, and at a lower performance level as well, although other factors contribute to all this besides just gears.
#10
All good points too. Another thing to keep in mind -- by definition, the Fit already has an overdrive, actually 2 in fact b/c both 4th and 5th are lower than a 1:1 ratio. And interestingly, if you compare the ratios between the MT and AT you'll see that the AT's 4th gear is practically identical to the MT's 5th, with the AT's 5th being even longer. Even so, the AT still gets lower mileage in general than the MT, and at a lower performance level as well, although other factors contribute to all this besides just gears.
#11
It's probably due to a number of reasons: unclear as to what an overdrive really is or does; not used to having a car rev at a higher rpm at highway speeds; misconceptions about engine efficiency and rpm, etc.
#12
It was never meant to be a hypermiler's wet dream, and Honda has no intention of making it so any time soon.
People in the US/Canada always seem to equate a small car as having to be some super-thrifty gas miser with limp performance to match, but the rest of the world, and Japan in particular doesn't necessarily think that way.
Also, I think people are using the term "overdrive" informally, just meaning a 5th gear that's only for cruising and doesn't provide torque. The usage is not technically correct, but is understood by most of us.
Last edited by Fitty McFit; 10-24-2007 at 07:40 PM.
#13
Everybody with a fit knows it's not fast, this is definitely one of the slowest cars i've ever driven and it is pretty freaking slow lol. but i think when people say "sporty" they aren't just referring to speed and power. if i were to compare the previous scion xB with a fit, i'm not sure which is faster, but the fit sure feels sportier. it just feels more agile and...sporty. like take a lotus elise or toyota mr2 spyder. those are some weak cars by today's standards, and not that fast even, but they're pretty freaking sporty no?
#14
Everybody with a fit knows it's not fast, this is definitely one of the slowest cars i've ever driven and it is pretty freaking slow lol. but i think when people say "sporty" they aren't just referring to speed and power. if i were to compare the previous scion xB with a fit, i'm not sure which is faster, but the fit sure feels sportier. it just feels more agile and...sporty. like take a lotus elise or toyota mr2 spyder. those are some weak cars by today's standards, and not that fast even, but they're pretty freaking sporty no?
#15
I bought a Fit because it feels like it handles better than the Scion or Yaris, but no, it's not anywhere CLOSE to being in the same league as MR2 or Lotus. I don't know where folks are getting this idea it's a sports car. It's not. I guess it's the same misconception as all the dudes who bought base-model Civics in the 80s and modded them out like they thought it was a sports car or something. Pretty funny.
VBP Sport 5MT
#16
#17
What!!!???? I bought the Sport model for nothing??
It has more horsepower than my 68 beetle does!
It has more horsepower than my 68 beetle does!
#18
Where are people getting this? No, no, no!!! The Fit is not in any way, shape or form "sporty". It's one of the slowest cars on the market. HP is 109 and torque is 105 ft/lbs. That's very, very low by today's standards. Just by comparison, the BASE MODEL Jetta is 170 HP and 177 ft/lbs. of torque. You can't call it anything but an economy car. Otherwise your definition of economy car is completely wrong.
With regard to the Fit, hundreds, if not thousands, of owners mod/track/autox/gymkhana their cars every year. Maybe in the US it's not quite caught on yet, but in other parts of the world where small cars are more the norm it's far from rare. Case in point:Noblesse Fit Watch the whole clip. Does the Evo blast away on the straights? Yup. Does the Fit blast by the Evo and a number of others in the corners? Yup. There isn't one part on that Fit you can't buy yourself, and it's only running apx. 145hp (w/ L15A by the way). Same car has clips of it doing similar feats against GT-R's, NSX's, Silvia's, Supra's, etc. And there are many, many other Fits being used in the same way -- stock, near stock, and heavily modded. Sorry, but there's just too much evidence of the Fit being a more than capable track car to dismiss it the way that you do.
As for economy cars, yeah, in the US market the Fit would seem to be an economy car compared to what's the norm and what we're used to. But why do you think most people here are so surprised/pleased with it's handling, build quality, interior design, spaceousness, etc.? Simple -- it's not considered an economy car in it's home market, the one it was primarily designed for (we're an afterthought). Below is an economy car in Japan; about $5k less than the cheapest Fit, 58hp@7200rpm, 26km/L, 1570 lbs, and 12" steelies w/ 145/80R12 tires. This isn't even a rare find; cars like this are a whole class unto themselves there. America doesn't know true economy, so probably my definition of an economy car is just more relative than most other peoples'.
BTW, this isn't an argument or anything -- I'm thinking a Denny's at 3am drinking coffee while arguing about which superhero would win at golf kinda feeling myself.
#19
That car is an f'n classic and not one person who knows anything about cars would deny that it's quite sporty.
Miata's aren't know to be powerhouses either, yet they're one of the most, if not the most, raced/tracked chassis in the world.
HP isn't God and alone does not define good performance or what constitutes sporty and fun to drive.
With regard to the Fit, hundreds, if not thousands, of owners mod/track/autox/gymkhana their cars every year.
Maybe in the US it's not quite caught on yet, but in other parts of the world where small cars are more the norm it's far from rare. Case in point:Noblesse Fit Watch the whole clip. Does the Evo blast away on the straights? Yup. Does the Fit blast by the Evo and a number of others in the corners? Yup. There isn't one part on that Fit you can't buy yourself, and it's only running apx. 145hp (w/ L15A by the way). Same car has clips of it doing similar feats against GT-R's, NSX's, Silvia's, Supra's, etc. And there are many, many other Fits being used in the same way -- stock, near stock, and heavily modded. Sorry, but there's just too much evidence of the Fit being a more than capable track car to dismiss it the way that you do.
As for economy cars, yeah, in the US market the Fit would seem to be an economy car compared to what's the norm and what we're used to.
But why do you think most people here are so surprised/pleased with it's handling, build quality, interior design, spaceousness, etc.?
Simple -- it's not considered an economy car in it's home market, the one it was primarily designed for (we're an afterthought). Below is an economy car in Japan; about $5k less than the cheapest Fit, 58hp@7200rpm, 26km/L, 1570 lbs, and 12" steelies w/ 145/80R12 tires.