ciburri,

what are your thoughts on the swift springs? i know kennef mentioned they did well on sports cars...but no so much for a DD. they have a mild drop, and the spring rates are not that stiff....why would they not be ideal?
kennef you can chime in on this too by the way.

are these swift springs the ones on kings site that you don't have to pick all the options for? (i ask this because those had a very mild drop too.)


and how important is this spring rate stuff if we do switch to aftermarket shocks anyway? i was thinking of getting the spoons or j's from aj's, to better match a stiffer spring rate. i guess this is all with relation to the stock shocks? i'd love to save myself the trouble and just get the mugen sports suspension, but the drop is so mild, i dunno if i could live with it. i'm not looking for a radical drop (hence why i like the tanabe gf's and the swifts drop so much) but i don't just wanna do springs and not do the shocks.

the mugen is expensive, so that the icing on the 'you are poor...remember that' cake.

 

well the swifts are on.

as far as negative camber, i am still on stock alignment specs. my goal is to achieve greater steady state cornering limits on tires that i plan on using later in the year that respond nicely to some camber.

i unfortunately have to hold out on the review of my swifts. when it comes to being a mechanic, i'm made of fail, and right now i have some clunking up front that so i'm more interested in figuring out what part of the re-install i messed up.

for now, i'll say that the springs are a lot more compliant than i thought they would be. the only reason i even tried to install them myself was to figure out how to reinstall the stock springs to save on future labor costs.

so far she thinks the ride is fine, and we don't plan on changing back so i'm lucky. i have to say, i really expected to cut it close on the tolerable edge of DD for her but so far we both agree the swifts don't toe that line at all.

i can't fairly rate these in the subjective handling area. i don't have the seat time in them yet. once i un-stupid my install, the car will be put through real tomfoolery. i can tell this much, though - the car could really use some camber up front and more exciting tire. and i didn't have to turn into my driveway any differently even though it is about an inch lower.

 

awesome.

you are still running stock shocks right?

 

Guys,
we had our meet and from comfort perspective we were surprised that there was not much difference between them!!! Any differences can be adjusted for very little or no money, too!
I am working on a more insight thread to explain it all and members that participated will pitch in no doubt.

Ivan

 

stock shocks.

on another note, i took TO's advice, i grabbed some popcorn, i'm awaiting the reviews guys!

 

Well I finally got some time for posting this.
First updated charts and data.
If you find any wrong data, please let me know so I can update it.
Don't bother with corrections of 3-5 lb/in since that variation is due to manufacturing process.

Sorted by stiffness of front springs from the softest (OEM) to the hardest:


Spring stiffness rate based on spreadsheet above:


Spring ratio front to rear bias:


Now to driving impressions.
Let's get something clear right away: stock dampers suck even with OEM springs. Any aftermarket spring just makes that more obvious! If you can afford dampers - get them! Adjustable damping and height if possible!
We evaluated comfort, not handling on a skid pad!
Weather forecast called for torrential downpours and we were blessed with a dry break. We decided not to tempt fate and to go for it right away with cars that showed up up to that point.
Cars on hand were with Eibach Pro's, Progress, Tein S-Tech and Ground Control coil over sleeves with one of the available Eibach Race ID springs of unknown stiffness. I know very limited availability and almost all on soft side with exception of Ground Control!
Simply put we expected a lot more difference in ride quality based on the data above! From that data it is obvious that manufacturers are all over the map with rear ratios! Nobody has clear idea of what is right and what is wrong for a reason. There is no right or wrong rear spring ratio!
Since Fit is so light on the back due to a centrally placed gas tank expectation of huge ride quality was warranted, but that lack of weight makes for relatively soft initial 1-2" compression regardless of the spring rate! Adding more weight to the back by adding rear passengers softens the ride more!
There is so much difference in body roll reduction between OEM springs and Eibach Pro's with just only 39lb/in front and 32lb/in rear it is astonishing! With that said there was almost no difference in ride quality once you step up to aftermarket springs.
I was dumbfound that difference between Eibach Pro's softest rears and Tein S-Tech one of the hardest rears (difference of 154lb/in!!!) makes for barely noticeable ride quality! I mean you really need to pay attention to notice it.
Ground Control rode much stiffer eliminating body roll entirely, but it was not "hard tail" ride as we expected. Don't get me wrong, none of us would pick them for a daily driver, but for what they are they are not bad at all! Keep in mind that when purchasing Ground Control you can specify what spring ratio's you wont!
Front ratio's are so close between manufacturer's it is not even worth discussing. They all felt the same.

IMO, first chose desirable height and then how stiff rear end you would like to have. With that said, my Eibach Pro's are lower than 1,6" drop Eibach advertises! Heights vary during manufacturing process. Numbers are relative!
If you are going to AutoX go for stiffest rears (higher rear to front stiffness ratio) to achieve oversteer! Progress rear sway bar helps a lot, too! For road racing on tracks pick something just a bit softer on the back.
If you can't deal with harsh rear on a daily basis you have options:
-(cheapest) make that emergency kit and include couple cases of water on the back! 24 pack of beer or a small keg will do nicely too!
-($100) it takes less than 10 minutes, a floor jack and a single wrench to change rear springs to a softer alternative!
-(can get expensive)with softest rear's you can add spring helper airbags. The one that fit inside springs on the back of trucks or SUV's (not leaf springs)
Adjustable dampers can stiffen softer springs, but they can't soften stiff springs! Chose wisely!

Oh, almost forgot, we all agreed that we could care less about springs when marinated chicken (thanks manxman!), sausages (thanks CuTeBoi!), thick juicy steaks (thanking myself!) started smelling on the grill! Condiments variety (thank you all that brought something!) was excellent, too!
Wish all of you guys were there! It would have been worth the drive regardless of the distance. Great company, great food, great little cars!
I believe there are some videos and pics taken by some participants, but I have not seen any posted yet!

Ivan

p.s. I hope this helps many yet to buy springs as well as give piece to people that already made a purchase that they really could not go wrong at least as far as comfort is concerned.

Somebody please make this a sticky for the sake of spring rate info. No need to guess on which springs are stiffer or softer anymore. Props to Mugen Mojo for his data collection which prompted me to build on it!

 

According to the people who rode in as passengers, or drove various cars in this small event, from spring set to spring set, there was not a lot of difference in the "feel" or comfort of the ride. As ciburri said, the amount of ride height drop had almost nothing to do with the advertised drop stated by the manufacturers. The ad specs. don't mean much.

I am personally so picky that I was only interested in the comfort level and cornering improvement of ONE spring brand- Swift- because they advertise the least amount of drop, and I don't want anything but the least drop as long as it provides better handling. Since our member who owns Swift springs has not had the ability to get them installed yet, the only car that I had the time to ride in and also drive was ciburri's, with the Eibach Pro .

The only input that I have as far as advice to spring shoppers is, whatever you buy, don't even bother unless you already have the Progress Rear Anti-Sway bar on the car (or the BE front bar, based on "mrFroge"s recent review of it). ciburri's springs gave the ride a little extra stiffness, even with 3 people in the car. But my Fit with only the rear bar and stock springs can eat ciburri's lunch any day. Whether I find springs to my liking, or invest in a set of multi-adjustable coilovers, for acceptable handling, you must also have either the Progress rear bar, or the Battle Endless Front bar (I base this on the favorable review of the BE bar from our neighbor "mrFroge").

My short test ride in "Bap"'s Fit with BOTH a stiff set of coilovers AND the Progress Rear bar was impressive as hell- cornering that was flat flat flat. Just too stiff even in a parking lot for my taste.

With my disinterest in any drop, testing the other springs was kind of pointless for me, so I didn't push it.

 

Thanks for keeping this thread alive with very helpful info! I still can't make up my mind on what springs to buy, still leaning toward the Progress though. I have the Progress RSB already but need a little drop.

 

A true statement. Adjustable shocks may not soften stiff springs, but they CAN make stiff spring FEEL much more civilized. Shocks that aren't up to the task of damping the spring they're attached to will really make the ride suck. We've all seen cars bouncing down even good roads, and it's almost certainly caused by shocks that aren't up to the task. I experienced this myself with my play-toy Plymouth Valiant autoXer. KYB's that used to be OK at damping springs that were about 25% over stock rates were out of their league when I upgraded to about 3x stock. Duh, right? Well, some QA1 adjustable shocks later, and the old girl was running smooth and stuck to the road like glue. Unfortunately, shock selection sucks for the Fit right now.

Another thing to think about how shocks and springs play together is that shocks are basically a timing device. Springs do all the work, holding the car up and resisting cornering forces. Shocks control WHEN the work happens, and how long it takes to happen. Stock shocks that are barely up to the task of controlling light OEM springs are going to be overwhelmed by springs with much more rate than stock. Until some better shocks come out, I'd be really hesitant to put much more rate on either end than maybe 10-15% more than stock.

 

i wonder how much better a configuration you could get out of a mix and match set up. like tanabe gf 210 fronts and skunk2 rears or tanabe df 210 rears with skunk2 fronts, or even tanabe gf 210 fronts and tanabe df 210 rears... hmm?! i would love to try each of those for a month to get a better idea of whether the stiffer or softer ride would better suit my driving style/habits. as it stands now, i'm think i'm leaning more towrads the second combo. a lil more of a drop in the rear to level the body line and a lil more comfort with the softer rates. damn, now i'm all seriously considering doing this... lol!

 

I got to ride in Tool's fit equipped with Progress Springs and Progress Rear Sway bar, and Ciburri's fit equipped with Eibach Pro Springs. Im not sure if this will make a difference since I was riding in different spots on both rides. I rode as Front Passenger in Tool's fit and Rear Right Passenger in Ciburri's fit. Also both fits had different drivers so each person has a different style of driving. Had both cars had the same driver and I was sitting in the same spot maybe my impressions would make more sense.

I felt better comfort in Tool's fit. I didn't experience any bouncing which is what i'm looking for while improving the handling somewhat. The sway bar definitely helped a lot as we were taking the turns at much more higher speed than what I would have done if I was driving. The drawback was the tires which were losing grip at sharp corners. Better tires would probably have improved the handling of the car more.

In Ciburri's fit I was experiencing more stiffness as I was feeling the road more. On my fit I am currently on 17s. Riding the in back felt like I was riding in my car again. I do commute a lot so I prefer not feeling the road as much. The car was handled by manxman who's a great driver. I'll admit that the handling was great. I didn't even hear any of the tires squeal during any of the turns. I don't have any experience in these type of roads that we were going thru so I wouldn't have been driving as fast as the rides I was in.

I do have videos of both rides with me holding up my camcorder. Not sure if they will give any good impressions on the rides. Im an amateur camera man so im not sure if those videos will help at all. On another note Tool's fit went uphill while ciburri's car was going downhill. I filmed half of the ride in tool's fit and the whole ride in ciburri's fit. I'll post these videos up tonite hopefully.

I hope I made some sort of sense in what I wrote. I'm not great at writing down what I want to say -.-.

 

you know, i havent driven with anyone in the back seat since my car was new and stock. i wonder how my car would handle with a few fat chicks in the back.

 

Man I am more and more confused. I assume all the above test drives were on stock/OEM shocks? The comment about OEM not being able to deal with higher rate springs is kind of a new one to me, but makes sense.

So bottom line-- if you want a mild drop with (simply) better than stock handling and a decent DD type ride on normal roads and to keep the car something the wife and kids can ride comfortably in to grandma's house, but where I can get out and have a little fun on the weekends-- is there a clear-cut spring-only mod winner?

All the manufacturers' seem to say on their sites that they deliver "exceptional ride" "comfortable ride", etc. as well as increased performance. I mean they make it sound like they all deliver on my above needs.

So is that true or are the skeptics disappointed because they want MORE performance/perfection in a still emerging market (i.e. not many shock choices)?


Sorry for the book, just new to this (obsessed!) and trying to do it right.

 

Honestly if price, comfort and handling are your top priority, the single mod that makes the biggest difference is the Progress rear swaybar. I took my Fit round a parking lot traffic circle in the rain with the bar only and it still eventually understeers, but not nearly as much as the stock Fit.
The Progress Springs are the next cheapest and keep the handling balance similar, just sharper, while still delivering a reasonable ride. I'm still curious about the Swift springs, since I don't really want much, if any drop.

 

Thanks for that. Actually it's not even a big-time price thing for me-- I am willing spend to achieve the goal, I just can't make sense of what the ultimate option is. Even some coilovers have some uncertainty around them. Though those ksports sure look nice.

But thanks again for the straight talk on the Progress bar and springs.

 

thanks to all the guys who participated and provided this priceless info!


i have come away with this with a few new thoghts;

1.i'm def. getting the progress rear sway bar, perhaps as my first suspension mod.

2. i'm def not going to get springs until i get the shocks too. For those of you who are looking for aftermarket ones, i know ben from aj's sells the j's ones AND the spoon ones.

3. since all the shock options are so expensive for the fit anyway (and i dislike the large drops the springs that they are designed for come with), the subtle 1-1.2 inch drop that the mugen suspension with kyb shocks is starting to actually look affordable (panducky mtsprts at least) and like the most painless, comes-all-in-the-box approach. ( for those of you who are interested in a very slight drop, this kit really offers it. i initially didn't like it because of the almost non apperant drop, but i'm starting to appreciate that more and more.)


4. i cannot wait for some info on the swift springs!!!

 

i'll try to get some pics of the swifts on the car by tomorrow. was able to fix the install. she wouldn't let me keep em on her car if the ride got too crazy or if she had to change her driving habits (driveways, for example).

in those regards, the swift is go.

and i would recommend against the swifts if your priority is reduction in ride height.

 

So tell us, how low do they go?

I didn't measure my height before the install. But I did go from a four finger gap to just over one finger on my Progress springs.

 

awesome please do!


one question about these? where to get em? i went to kingmotorsports, as they seem pretty pro-swift, and they has some hardcore race springs that have all sorts of options on them....and then at the bottom of the page, they have what they claim to be very mild drop, ride-retaining sport springs that have no options like the others; are these the swifts you have? our info here states that they are a 1.4 and 1.something drop front and rear, king says 1.2 and 1.0 (but again, lowering specs are not always real-world, i just wanna know if these are the same springs.)

 

https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-...t-special.html