rear strut tower bar functionality (does it really make a difference?)
#41
05-22-2008, 02:01 PM
i wish the rear swaybar were thicker so it would create MORE OVERSTEER!!!!!. also, i want more camber in the front.
i think a lot of the understeer comes from the front tires being straight up, while the rear tires have some camber, resulting in better cornering grip in the rear.
i think a lot of the understeer comes from the front tires being straight up, while the rear tires have some camber, resulting in better cornering grip in the rear.
#42
05-22-2008, 02:08 PM
yes it would. when i get my coilovers, i'll be getting a camber kit for the front. i want more negative camber.
#44
05-22-2008, 07:02 PM
Your welcome. I believe the Cusco bar was around $160 plus freight. I can't think who I bought it from right now but I would recognize the name if I heard it. Seems like somebody in Illinois/Michigan with a warehouse in California.
It's a gorgeous piece. The bracketing is really diesel even thou it doesn't attach to the strut housing/panel.
It's a gorgeous piece. The bracketing is really diesel even thou it doesn't attach to the strut housing/panel.
#47
05-22-2008, 07:31 PM
[quote=kenchan;315765]i suppose if you are running upper pillow mounts, which i think wat
you mean.
I have no idea what a pillow mount is. My shock piston rods are located laterally by clamping a nut in the seat at the top of the shock tower. There are 2 elastic 'washers' to protect the shock upper mount in the event of a sudden jounce or rebound. The suspension action depends on the location of the shock centerline being fixed in relation to the wheel. The usual use of a strut bar is to locate the shock tower so it doesn't deform when the body and chassis twist under cornering loads. Up until maybe 5 to 10 years ago that that serious business and all competition cars had strut bars. Nowdays chassis engineering is so good, thanks to advanced computers, that strut bars are virtually unnecessary for vehicles under 250 hp as there just isn't enough torque to even come close to twisting a chassis. But as always if a strut bar is desired, locating the top of the shock piston rod is more accurate than locating the shock tower. There can still be distortion between the tower and the shock piston rod.
But like I said, a Fit doesn't need one.
you mean.
I have no idea what a pillow mount is. My shock piston rods are located laterally by clamping a nut in the seat at the top of the shock tower. There are 2 elastic 'washers' to protect the shock upper mount in the event of a sudden jounce or rebound. The suspension action depends on the location of the shock centerline being fixed in relation to the wheel. The usual use of a strut bar is to locate the shock tower so it doesn't deform when the body and chassis twist under cornering loads. Up until maybe 5 to 10 years ago that that serious business and all competition cars had strut bars. Nowdays chassis engineering is so good, thanks to advanced computers, that strut bars are virtually unnecessary for vehicles under 250 hp as there just isn't enough torque to even come close to twisting a chassis. But as always if a strut bar is desired, locating the top of the shock piston rod is more accurate than locating the shock tower. There can still be distortion between the tower and the shock piston rod.
But like I said, a Fit doesn't need one.
Last edited by mahout; 05-22-2008 at 08:01 PM.
#48
05-22-2008, 07:57 PM
It look like you could actually run dual rear stb from the way the Cusco is mounted. Something like the Aspec rear stb with the mounting brackets that raise up oever the struts might fit over the Cusco. Would be interesting to see and how it would affect the car.
#49
05-22-2008, 09:14 PM
pillow mounts are metal mounts with a bearing which eliminates the
use of rubber mounts.
and the rest of the chassis thing. i agree to a certain amount, but
you can't just put a hp number to distinguish if a car needs a stb or
not. "needed" or not, it is more of a feed back preference thing for me.
and the front was a night/day differnce when running the DF210's.
i haven't taken it off since the endura-techs so dont know how much
of a difference it makes at the moment. the e-tech's are pretty soft.
use of rubber mounts.
and the rest of the chassis thing. i agree to a certain amount, but
you can't just put a hp number to distinguish if a car needs a stb or
not. "needed" or not, it is more of a feed back preference thing for me.
and the front was a night/day differnce when running the DF210's.
i haven't taken it off since the endura-techs so dont know how much
of a difference it makes at the moment. the e-tech's are pretty soft.
I have no idea what a pillow mount is. My shock piston rods are located laterally by clamping a nut in the seat at the top of the shock tower. There are 2 elastic 'washers' to protect the shock upper mount in the event of a sudden jounce or rebound. The suspension action depends on the location of the shock centerline being fixed in relation to the wheel. The usual use of a strut bar is to locate the shock tower so it doesn't deform when the body and chassis twist under cornering loads. Up until maybe 5 to 10 years ago that that serious business and all competition cars had strut bars. Nowdays chassis engineering is so good, thanks to advanced computers, that strut bars are virtually unnecessary for vehicles under 250 hp as there just isn't enough torque to even come close to twisting a chassis. But as always if a strut bar is desired, locating the top of the shock piston rod is more accurate than locating the shock tower. There can still be distortion between the tower and the shock piston rod.
But like I said, a Fit doesn't need one.
But like I said, a Fit doesn't need one.
#50
05-22-2008, 10:36 PM
Rear strut tower bar looks sweet R.E., thumbs up for that
I have the BE rear C-Pillar strut which I do feel does stiffens up the rear around long high speed corners. Other than that I can't feel any difference for that bar.
I also run the J's racing front strut in combination with the BE front sway. These really perform!! I got good results trying it out on the track, car does tend to want to under steer but it easily holds through the corners. It does feel a bit more twitchy than before though.
Right now I feel way more limited by the tires than the suspension when I push the car.
I have the BE rear C-Pillar strut which I do feel does stiffens up the rear around long high speed corners. Other than that I can't feel any difference for that bar.
I also run the J's racing front strut in combination with the BE front sway. These really perform!! I got good results trying it out on the track, car does tend to want to under steer but it easily holds through the corners. It does feel a bit more twitchy than before though.
Right now I feel way more limited by the tires than the suspension when I push the car.
#51
05-23-2008, 09:26 PM
Yep, here's the Cusco from Bulletproof. That's where I got it.
Bulletproof Automotive
I also have the J's front strut under the hood, the T1R lower bar in the front chassis, the Progress rear sway bar and I have the J's bar for the rear roof but I'm too lazy/afraid I'll mess up my expensive headliner.
Bulletproof Automotive
I also have the J's front strut under the hood, the T1R lower bar in the front chassis, the Progress rear sway bar and I have the J's bar for the rear roof but I'm too lazy/afraid I'll mess up my expensive headliner.
#52
05-25-2008, 05:35 AM
Yep, here's the Cusco from Bulletproof. That's where I got it.
Bulletproof Automotive
I also have the J's front strut under the hood, the T1R lower bar in the front chassis, the Progress rear sway bar and I have the J's bar for the rear roof but I'm too lazy/afraid I'll mess up my expensive headliner.
Bulletproof Automotive
I also have the J's front strut under the hood, the T1R lower bar in the front chassis, the Progress rear sway bar and I have the J's bar for the rear roof but I'm too lazy/afraid I'll mess up my expensive headliner.
#53
06-11-2009, 01:04 PM
bringing this thread back from the dead..
Would be nice to see what set up in bars does the Spoon's or A-J Racing's Fits use..
I too have the Rear Upper Strut Bar(not the C-Pillar) not mounted yet and I'm doing some research as if to it's really worth to have it installed or not. But it seems people here have mixed opinions about it..Also getting the Progress RSB very soon so I'll post my impressions as well.
Would be nice to see what set up in bars does the Spoon's or A-J Racing's Fits use..
I too have the Rear Upper Strut Bar(not the C-Pillar) not mounted yet and I'm doing some research as if to it's really worth to have it installed or not. But it seems people here have mixed opinions about it..Also getting the Progress RSB very soon so I'll post my impressions as well.
#54
06-11-2009, 01:36 PM
Yes I am in sales, and I dont need to be a mechanic. I have been discussing this product with a few people and from our discussions, just like kenchan said, When put on a stock car you get the "Feeling" of better cornering, but when you really Setup your suspension it actually makes it worse. You no longer are able to attain a "Nuetral steer". A car that oversteers too much is like a car that understeers too much. NOT GOOD. A Nuetral steering car is where you want to be, But that is just simply unattainable with a rear swaybar. I also Emailed Progress about how their product works, and I received some mediocre response with a one sentence explanation of "It stiffens the torsion beam". Please dont discredit me simply because I sell cars, I know what I am doing. Like I said I knew I would get flamed for this, so I knew I would get negative responses. Im sure we can sit here and argue all day and argue about yes they do work or no they dont, just like the strutbar threads.
u have absolutely no f'n clue as to what a sway bar is supposed to do
if u have to ask how a simple torsion bar works then i suggest u stay away from anything more complicated than a stick (the sway bar is basically a steel spring stick)
comparing the rear strut bar to a rear sway bar is like comparing a short ram air intake to a 10 psi turbo kit
:m ad:
#56
06-11-2009, 03:19 PM
O Kkkk... back on topic. I just wanted to know if the rear upper strut bar(the one that connects to the upper rubber mounts inside the car) was worth installing or not..
#58
06-11-2009, 06:49 PM
it smoothed out my ride and stiffened it up a little. a Rear strut bar helps but there are other mods that will make a bigger difference. without other suspension mods, those of you thinking a rear strut bar by itself will do something with little to no mods .........you really dont feel much of a difference
#59
06-11-2009, 06:57 PM
^^ Cusco knows what they're doing. How much was it, radareclipse?
------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's clear this up.
From autospeed.com
"Front wheel drive cars tend to understeer. This is the case because the front tyres are forced to perform two tasks – transferring torque to the road and also turning the car.
It’s best to fit a thicker anti-roll bar to the rear of these cars, with stiffness increases of 100 per cent over standard being common. This helps hold the car flat, counteracting understeer without causing the same problems as a bigger front sway bar which tends to lift the front inside wheel, worsening the understeer.
But can the rear roll stiffness be too great? Yes, it can. A FWD car with an over-stiff rear will have throttle-off oversteer. This can be a little tricky, especially in wet conditions or with an inexperienced driver. Someone who lifts off sharply when the car starts to understeer might be a little surprised when the back suddenly comes out! Very sporty FWD cars (and those set up for circuit use) frequently lift the inside rear wheel right off the ground because of the very stiff rear roll stiffness.
But in a front-wheel drive that understeers, upping the thickness of the rear sway bar is a great place to start. And, as we keep saying, it’s cheap too."
To my knowledge, a lot of FWD autoX'ers will put on a RSB. Some, if unhappy with the RSB addition, will also take out or swap for a smaller diameter FSB.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's clear this up.
From autospeed.com
"Front wheel drive cars tend to understeer. This is the case because the front tyres are forced to perform two tasks – transferring torque to the road and also turning the car.
It’s best to fit a thicker anti-roll bar to the rear of these cars, with stiffness increases of 100 per cent over standard being common. This helps hold the car flat, counteracting understeer without causing the same problems as a bigger front sway bar which tends to lift the front inside wheel, worsening the understeer.
But can the rear roll stiffness be too great? Yes, it can. A FWD car with an over-stiff rear will have throttle-off oversteer. This can be a little tricky, especially in wet conditions or with an inexperienced driver. Someone who lifts off sharply when the car starts to understeer might be a little surprised when the back suddenly comes out! Very sporty FWD cars (and those set up for circuit use) frequently lift the inside rear wheel right off the ground because of the very stiff rear roll stiffness.
But in a front-wheel drive that understeers, upping the thickness of the rear sway bar is a great place to start. And, as we keep saying, it’s cheap too."
To my knowledge, a lot of FWD autoX'ers will put on a RSB. Some, if unhappy with the RSB addition, will also take out or swap for a smaller diameter FSB.
handles like how a race car should handle but, way too neutral for a novice (i let somebody try my car at the track and they spun out on the first corner)
any machine to be agile must be on the verge of uncontrollability (be it a F16, F1, or even the fit)
#60
06-11-2009, 07:10 PM
NO struts on rear!!
I think most people r confused.
the fit DOES NOT HAVE REAR STRUTS therefore it is NOT a rear strut brace
the fit ONLY HAS STRUTS ON THE FRONT
struts r structural AND they dampen the springs
if u remove the front struts the wheels will flop about and not hold their geometry
if u remove the rear dampers u can still drive the car just fine (it may be a little bouncy)
notice how i called them "dampers" NOT "shocks"
the springs absorb the "shocks" of the road
the gas and oil filled tubes "dampen" the oscillations of the springs and absorb NO SHOCKS
the fit DOES NOT HAVE REAR STRUTS therefore it is NOT a rear strut brace
the fit ONLY HAS STRUTS ON THE FRONT
struts r structural AND they dampen the springs
if u remove the front struts the wheels will flop about and not hold their geometry
if u remove the rear dampers u can still drive the car just fine (it may be a little bouncy)
notice how i called them "dampers" NOT "shocks"
the springs absorb the "shocks" of the road
the gas and oil filled tubes "dampen" the oscillations of the springs and absorb NO SHOCKS