I've had my system installed since this summer and I just killed my first battery. I searched through the threads and from what I can see no one is making an aftermarket alternator. I also contacted honda and they said that none of their larger alternators make the power I am looking for, nor would they fit the Fit. I contacted Cadence and they said that my two amp's together are requiring just over 100 amps to operate properly. Anyway my questions are; What companies are likely to make an alternator in the future,( so I can prod them along), and in the mean time , What is the proper way to wire in a second battery and maintain 12 volts,( not jump to 24 volts)? and, Are there any dangers to installing the second battery inside the cabin? -Thank You.

 

are you listening to the stereo with the car off? if you want to run a second battery, you'll need a dual battery isolator and a deep cycle battery to connect your stereo to,

Goggle "iraggi" and "ohio generator" for high output alternators.

 

I never listen to the stereo with the car off, sometimes parked, but not off. I know the benefits of a deep cycle battery but I' ve never heard of a "dual battery isolator"? Thank you for alternator company names.

 

I talked to Cadence again and they said next best thing to a properly sized alternator is a second battery. He recommended a Kinetik, I found a HC600 for $75 and a small 5 amp charger that mantains a voltage of 13.5- 14.6 volts that I can mount under my seat next to the HC600 and then just "plug in" at night. Also found alot of good info on Kinetik's web site; startIeFix(); endIeFix();startIeFix(); endIeFix();startIeFix(); endIeFix();Kinetik Tech Guide & F.A.Q.Click Here To Download Tech Guide & F.A.Q.The number one reason why electronics fail is due to lack of power!
-Lack Of Power = Low Voltage
-Low Voltage = Increased Current
-Increased Current = Increased Heat
-Increased Heat = Fried Amplifiers & Electronics

By providing your amplifiers and electronics with the proper amount of power they will run cooler, they will run more efficient, they will perform better and they will last longer!

What do I need to know BEFORE installing a Kinetik Power Cell?
The first thing most that comes to mind when lights are dimming or amplifiers are going into protection is to replace or add another battery. If the alternator is not charging properly, you must fix the problem before adding power. Adding more than a few hundred watts to a vehicle will tax the factory electrical system and will not provide the peak performance, power output or lifetime of the added electrical equipment, amps etc. An upgraded alternator must be installed to insure maximum performance above this wattage.

Always check and LOAD TEST the alternator and battery currently in the vehicle. Never install a Kinetik Power Cell or any other additional battery in a vehicle that has not had a thorough electrical system check. Simply checking the voltage of a battery or alternator can not determine its condition. A load must be applied to find the maximum current output at any voltage. If the alternator and battery already in the vehicle are not in good working order, adding additional power storage devices will offer nothing more than a short term solution.

How do I choose the correct Kinetik Power Cell for my application?
Kinetik makes choosing a Kinetik Power Cell simple. We made our model numbers equal to the wattage needed for your vehicle. For peak performance and the maximum lifespan of all electrical equipment in your car, simply add up the total wattage needed including all amplifiers, lights, winches, video and all other electronics and make sure the model numbers add up the same amount. Allow from 800 to 1200 watts to run the vehicle depending on the electrical requirements if you are replacing the under hood battery also. For example; a car with a stock 90 amp alternator can use up to 1200 watts to run the factory equipment already in the vehicle (90 amps x 13.6 volts = 1224 watts). Remember, there is a reason the factory put that size alternator in the vehicle in the first place and it was not so you could have extra power to run your aftermarket equipment! You must add power if you increase the demand. If you add a 1000 watt amp and a 200 watt 4 channel amplifier and allow 1200 watts to run the car then make sure the Kinetik model numbers add up to 2400. 1200+1000+200=2400. Assuming you are replacing the starting battery with a Kinetik Power Cell, install the size that best fits the space (for example an 1800) and add the rest of the 2400 needed to the rear near the amplifier (a 600). In this car a KHC1800 and a KHC600 add up to 2400 watts total and the car should have plenty of power assuming everything else is working properly.

How do I install my Kinetik Power Cell? -Installation Location
Kinetik Power Cells can be mounted anywhere in a vehicle since they are sealed, non-hazardous and do not leak. We recommend installing the Power Cell close to where it is needed for best performance. When you install amplifiers or other electrical equipment in the rear of a vehicle you should try to provide power as close as possible to the load for maximum current and voltage. The best case scenario is to have the Kinetik model numbers match the demand near the load. If you add 1200 watts in the rear of a car then try to add 1200 in the rear if possible.

-Wiring
In an amplifier install, wire the positive and negative power wires from the amplifier directly to the Power Cell with as few breaks or connections in the wire as possible. Connect the front Kinetik Power Cell or battery to the rear Power Cell using proper gauge wire (see wire gauge chart in the manual). It is best to run both positive and negative wires from the front to the rear Power Cell. When a negative wire is not run all the way then ground the Power Cell to the frame or body of the car. We strongly advise soldering all ring terminals any time they are used. Keep in mind the most important connections you can make in an install are between the Power Cells and the amplifiers or load. Use the wire gauge chart in the manual to determine the recommended cable length.

-Mixing Different Battery Technologies
Kinetik Power Cells are compatible with most standard 12 volt charging systems and battery technologies. We do however advise using Kinetik Power Cells exclusively throughout the vehicle for maximum voltage, performance and longevity of aftermarket electronics as well as the Power cells. This will minimize self discharging of the power storage devices in the vehicle while not in use also. Kinetik Power Cells have a very low self discharge rate much lower than that of a standard ‘wet cell’ car battery. When different types of power storage devices (batteries or Power Cells) are used in parallel in an electrical system, current will have a tendency to flow between storage devices unnecessarily resulting in heat build up and loss of power where it is needed most. When Kinetik Power Cells are used throughout the install, current will flow directly from the Power Cells to the load in a balanced manner minimizing ‘fighting’ between unlike storage devices.

I bought a Kinetik power cell and after a week my lights are dimming again, why?
Professionally check your alternator and charge then load test the starting battery. When lights are dimming people have a tendency to add power storage devices instead of checking to see what the real problem may be. If and alternator or front battery is bad then adding more power will only temporarily solve the problem until the new Power Cell is dead too. The reason the lights stopped dimming when adding the Kinetik Power Cell was because you ‘recharged’ the car with the new cell instead of replacing the alternator or battery that was bad. Kinetik Power Cells rest at 13 volts after being fully charged and allowed to cool. Most car batteries rest between 12.6 and 12.8 volts. If your voltage is lower than this on a vehicle after being allowed to cool down with the motor off, check your battery and alternator immediately.

I heard that adding more batteries to my car will lower the voltage and is harder on my alternator, is this true?
Adding multiple Kinetik Power Cells to a vehicle will not add extra load on your alternator or lower you voltage in your car like adding ‘wet cell’ batteries will. Due to the low ESR and high voltage of Kinetik Power Cells, your voltage will actually increase. Kinetik Power Cells also charge more efficiently and quickly than a standard ‘wet cell’ battery reducing the stress on your alternator.

My amplifier has a highly regulated power supply that makes the same power no matter what the voltage in my car is, so I do not need and extra battery!
Wrong! Ohm’s law is not negotiable. Yes a highly regulated power supply can help stabilize output of an amplifier, but the power has to come from somewhere. If an amp is trying for 1000 watts output and your voltage is at 14 volts then you need 72 amps of current to provide this (14.4 volts x 69.4 amps = 1000 watts). If voltage drops to 10.5 volts while the amp is trying to do 1000 watts a regulated power supply will automatically demand 95.2 amps of current. If the electrical system was already taxed at 69 extra amps, then 95 amps is only compounding the original problem lowering the voltage even more and starting the downward spiral to fried electronics. No matter what type of amplifier you have, higher voltage is always better. Higher voltages reduce the required amount of current to provide the same wattage output and as a result your amplifier runs cooler. Remember…increased current results heat and heat kills amplifiers and other electronics. Woofers and full range speakers alike will always sound better at higher system voltages because it is much easier for the amplifier to maintain wattage and also damping factors which is what ‘holds’ the speaker in place keeping it from flopping around like a wet piece of cardboard.

My lights are dimming. Will adding a Kinetik Power Cell fix it?
Yes it will IF the alternator is the proper size and in good working order and the front or starting battery is in good condition. Follow all recommendations on wiring and Power Cell selection from earlier. If extra power is what is needed at the amplifier and a faulty electrical system is not the cause of the voltage problem a properly selected Power Cell will add enough power to run the aftermarket equipment. A Kinetik HC600 has many times more stored energy than a 100 farad capacitor.

How do I charge and test my Kinetik Power Cells?
Kinetik Power Cells can be charged in a properly functioning vehicle charging system or with any high quality 12 volt battery charger. For best results and maximum power output and lifecycle for outboard charging, use a Kinetik power supply or maintainer to charge and maintain your Power Cell. If you are charging with an automotive type charger always use chargers that are “voltage regulated, two stage, Automatic or microprocessor controlled”. Do not use chargers that only have amp settings such as 2, 5 or 10 amp settings that do not regulate voltage. These chargers increase in voltage as the battery or Power Cell charges leading to an over voltage situation that will ruin the cell. This is true for any 12 volt battery or Power Cell. The proper charging range for Kinetik Power Cells is between 13.5 and 14.4 volts. Any quality battery charger will stay in this range. To “bulk” charge or quick charge your Power Cell for one to three hours use voltages between 14 and 14.4 volts. To saturate (fully charge) or maintain your Power Cell for extended periods of times up to months at a time, use a float voltage between 13.5 and 13.8 volts. Kinetik power supplies and maintainers automatically switch from bulk to float charge as needed during the charging process to optimize the performance, lifecycle and charging time of your Power Cell. Kinetik "The World’s Loudest Power Cells"

I sent an email to Ohio generator, they say they'll custom make an alternator for any car, any application, they emailed me back to call them but they close before I get out of work so we haven't spoken yet. I don't expect it will be cheap.

 

i have an hc600 in my car, great little battery

 

Summit Racing carries sealed, vented to outside boxes for second battery inside the car. You can find dual battery isolators at most auto parts stores.

 

Alright, I bought a Kinetik HC1400 to replace the OE battery and a Kinetik HC600 to mount under the passenger seat along side a Schauer 12v12amp charger thats just over an inch tall which I can plug in at night. Those two batteries fully charged every night should supply my power requirements for my 1-2 hrs daily driving, a temp. solution but should work fine until,( and after), I get an upgraded alternator.

 

I didnt look before cause I wasn't reading very closely but you're pushing alot of watts for a car that comes stock with dimming lights... 650w from your sub and 120 for your fronts... I'll keep in mind to keep the power levels down when I put together my system.

 

Yeah dude I just looked up those amps u arent pushing that much power, it sounds like that many batteries is over kill. And the 1400 is a bitch to put in the stock spot. A hc600 in the stock spot should be good for you. Only time I have ever gotten dimming lights is if my car is off and I turn the bass WAY up.

 

Do you get it when your fan for your engine turns on? I get it when that kicks on, or when I turn on my heater/fan

 

u asking about dimming?

And no never even when I have my heater or ac on max

 

Theres alot of people that say they experience Dimming when turning the lights on or when the heater kicks on. I wonder whats different about your car...hmmm

 

Should be less than 1200 watts RMS. I asked Cadence what the formula is to change that into amperage requirements, he wouldn't say, just that it depends on the efficency of the amps, and that he knew because they test thier amps. He said just over 100 amps of constant power. The HC600 is about the same amperage of the stock battery, and not enough to fill my requirements. I know the combo of the HC1400 and HC600 is a bit of overkill but since my alternator is undersized I figured my batteries are in a state of constant drain. I'd rather have an abundance of power than not enough. I was wondering about fitting the HC1400 in the stock spot since it is a few hairs bigger... I thought it probably work but I won't have it until next week. Have you already tried this??? Does it work???

 

just to let you know if its 1200 watts, they are not pulling 100 amps, at least according to good old ohms law.

And I'll bet you are not pushing the amps to the limit, and the point of the dry cell battery(hc600) is not the amperage its the back up power the stock doesnt even compare to it

Its about my battery, ask injundon about it, he knows ALOT about the subject he gave me a lot of advice

 

[quote=bumblbeeracer;212873]just to let you know if its 1200 watts, they are not pulling 100 amps, at least according to good old ohms law.

And I'll bet you are not pushing the amps to the limit,




Was looking at Ohm's law and I'm not sure how you used it to figure the amperage requirements to run 1200 watts? Please give me your equations. You were absolutely correct about the HC1400 being a b*tch to fit though. Had to free up the Positive wires to get slack and run a new ground. Still doesn't really fit, crooked, not entirely level and JAMMED against the AEM cai, but the brace is on and it's secure. By the way, my stereo is ALWAYS playing between 90 and 100% power, Always.

 

I love seeing these kinds of threads filled with second hand, advertizing and misguided information. Extra batteries don't help, they prolong the inevitable. Kinetics low ESR batteries are good for competitions not daily use since they have crappy reserve times.

If both your amps combined pull 100 amps. then at absolute maximum volume wile listening to music your pulling at most the equivalent of a 25 amp constant load. that's at absolute max potential of the amplifiers.

Music is dynamic and not constant All the ups and downs and pauses between sounds etc. Heavy metal averages out to be around a 25% duty cycle, rap around 15-20%, BASS CD's around 40%. Most other music, pop, rock, R&B are around 12-15%. So that theoretical 100 amp draw, while listening to music is 25amps, if your listening to Slayer...at full output.

Keep in mind what I said above and I'll throw you another loop here. To gain just 3dB's you need to double your amplifier power. 3dB's is not a big gain by ay means. It's the human threshold for noticable increase in sound. This means that if you raised the volume about 2 dB's you wouldn't notice it get any louder unless you werepaing close attention. 10dB's (which requires 9.99x the power) is what sounds slike twice as loud to the human ear. So Chances are your only listening at around 1/4 power if you like it loud ALL the time.

Case in point. Your alternator and stock battery are sufficient. You most likely have a relatively poor ground to your amps. Liek a seatbelt bolt. which is painted steel. threading into a painted steel hole. Upgrading your battery to ground and engine to ground wires as well as properly grounding your amps will solve your issue and could have saved you a few hundred bucks.

 

was just waiting for you to post injundon lol, you are good with the technical details

 

Yeah, thanks for the info, some of it I knew already, some I didn't and some I wish I knew a week ago. Still wish I knew some of the mathmatical equations that are used to figure these numbers out. Anyway it's only been since yesterday but seems to be working well. My grounds are solid though and have been. My amp grounds are less than two feet long and grounded to a prepared bare metal bolting spot for the emergency cable. Thanks again.

 

yea, getting into speaker arrays is a whole mess of technical info... let me ask you this though, what impedance are your speakers wired to? if they're at 8ohms, you would probably get more results just dropping your speakers down to 4ohms (provided your speakers and amp can handle the difference) and just keep the gear as it is...

i usually try to drop the speaker load as low as the amps can possibly handle before i consider increasing the power of the amp. most live sound amplifiers are pulling the same amount of juice weather you're pushing them to max or not (i am a live sound guy, so feel free to correct me if car amps don't work this way, though i would assume they do.)

sometimes dropping the load can increase the output by almost double... you should also make sure your crossover network can handle the increased load, you don't want to blow up any capacitors now... that's never fun.

100 amps is a TON of current... sounds to me like that would result in alot of wasted juice. for example, i can run 3 600W(RMS) amplifiers in the room i work on a 20A fuse without much fear of exploding anything (though there was this one time... i won't get into that.) i have run these amps through the ringer at 4 ohms on most channels and still have yet to blow the fuse.

750W should only be pulling about 6-7A from 120V, at least from what i remember...

you should be able to pull a considerable thump from the fit's stock battery, it's just a matter of setting it up right.

[edit: i know dropping the speakers' impedance obliterates headroom, but a good crossover can easily keep the headroom shortage to a minimum.... lesson here: CROSSOVERS MAKE OR BREAK THE SYSTEM.]

 

The formula used is as follows, ( power/efficiency )/ voltage

so if you have a 1000 watt amp that is 75% effecient then you need to offset a load of 95 amps.

Also you dont really need an isolator, that is only for if you are listening to the stereo for prolonged periods of time with the car off, the isolator just allows the front battery to remain charged while the sub stage is ran off the rear battery.

Does anyone know the actual current rating of the fit sport alternator?