well maybe if both cars were the same cars at testing the CAI would have really showed its advantage over the other, fujita's test car for the CAI had a little more over 200 miles on the car and it was a MT car on rims, the short ram car was a automatic with about 3000 miles.

 

colder air means denser air means more oxygen which equals more boom in the engine. cai will make more power due to this and not suffer from heatsoak.

arc intakes don't make power but they offer amazing throttle response due to their design, much like the j's intake on my itr. peak power is not the most important aspect of driving but rather useable power and response. you'll find better response from a short ram then a cai, it really depends upon what you're looking for.

 

mmm, maybe -- autos tend to lose more hp to the wheels and it was still slighty higher, only slighty though. In any case, as far as I'm concerned it's a moot point -- most JDM Fit tuners agree that the best gains come from chamber-type intakes like the Power Box, Honda-Veni, or AJR's T1R. I mean, the T1R dynoed with over twice the hp increase that either of the Fujita's have shown. I haven't had the time to dyno my Power Box yet, but I definitely can feel the difference, particularly in mid to high rpm torque and response. You'll be hard pressed to find any JDM Fit tuner with a CAI, and with good reason I'd say.

 

im trying to see your point here, seeing that you go by different dyno numbers and what the JDM people use, 1st off, auto cars do show less numbers at the dyno, ive seen it many times, so im not doubting you there, BUT the auto Fit that was tested was well broken in and since it dynoed less power stock then a manual stock did, it would make good power with a intake. also remember that when cars get dyoned they always get dynoed with the hood opened with a big fan blowing air right to it. Don't compare intakes power gains with other unless they were both taken on the exact same dyno, new dyno jets are more accurate then older dyno jets. another thing here, Japanese tuners don't like CAI's plain and simple, WHY? you may ask, because it rains alot over there with alot of flash floods and such, i can't really think of any japanese company that makes a cold air for any car, its just not a good idea in Japan.
chamber intakes are just really for looks and heat soak with minimal to no gains.... just ask the S2000 guys on S2Ki

 

not to beat this silly again but not i have confirmation that short ram chamber intakes make less power then CAI's on the Fit!!! T1R overpriced chamber intake on a much newer DYNO JET similar to the dyno jet used on fujitas and injen's intakes....
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/show...4238#post94238

im guessing Bens car dynoed a bit less than stock because of his wheel maybe, but the gain was pathetic... absolutely no top end power was made, just midrange, the CAI's from the NON JDM companys made power everywhere!

 

peak hp is not your goal when adding an intake, you want to add to your midrange. how often do you power out of turns at redline? i have a j's intake on my itr, it makes really no difference on a dyno but the throttle response is immediate and at high speeds the short intake path helps with top end.

 

so are you saying that CAI's are completely useless and that everyone should go blow 400-900 dollars on a JDM short ram intake?

 

i understand that you get a BIT more mid range with a short ram, but you get power all over the place with CAI's.

 

I'm sorry, but his dyno showed +5.3 HP at 5,500. Compare this to the Fujita CAI (the only CAI for which I have seen a valid dyno sheet) I don't call this 'power everywhere' in my opinion.

http://www.f5air.com/images/dyno/ca1924.gif

http://www.f5air.com/images/dyno/sr1924.gif

In fact, both short ram and cai seem don't seem that much different than the T1R from reviewing the dyno graphs. I have two observations:

1. Even with comparing baseline pulls, it appears the manual has a ~10 HP advantage over the AT. Not suprising.

2. It appears that these intakes seem to only matter beyond the VTEC transition point (isn't this ~3,5000 or so usually?) It would seem logical that the stock airbox setup is perfectly suited for lower RPM operation, and that even w/ a CAI or short ram installed, you won't see significant increases until the second intake valve begins to open fully. And last, the cam seems to be limiting power, which drops off significantly beyond 6k (both CAI, short ram, and chamber show this).

I don't plan to do anything other than a K&N drop in. It isn't worth 5 hp to rip out a well-designed factory system, especially when the measurement techniques and correction factors all vary for the '5 hp' claims. If I had to choose, I'd go w/ the chamber...only reason I won't is a) price, and b) the thing is right in front of the radiator! (EDIT: notice that I'm not disputing the principle of CAI...just questioning the overall effectiveness at changing from the factory to some aftermarket gizmo).

Notice that even Mugen's supercharged Fit appears to utilize the factory air box setup, although they certainly swapped filters:
http://paultan.org/archives/2006/03/...c-d-prototype/

They made 145 HP using this setup. The factory intake is capable.

 

as i said before, the fujita dynoed that day had 200 MILES on it, look at both dyno sheets again, the fujita make power all the way toward redline were the T1R falls flat on its face after 5800RPMs. also keep in mind that short ram intakes will see good power gains on a dyno because cars get dynoed with the hood opened and a big fan blowing cool air to it.

 

forgot about this thread . . .

But you don't actually -- like John said, that increase in the high end isn't nearly as useful as having a midrange increase that starts to come in 500-1000 rpms lower, at least for circuit use.

And I don't think anyone is saying that CAI's are useless, cause they're not, but maybe more that for our purposes chambers and short-rams are more useful 'cause for us HP isn't everything ultimately.

oh, and to answer your question from a few posts back, my point about JDM owners was very simple -- excepting any other non-USDM/Canadian Fit owners, JDM owners have something most of us here do not: years of experience tuning the Fit. You would have to be really full of yourself to ignore the wealth of information and experience that they've accrued over the years, which is why I pay more attention to their pages and advice. Regarding intakes, they overwhemingly choose a chamber in some form or other over other designs that are readily available to them because they work best in their experience (in the Fit's case), plain and simple.

 

yes it boils down to this:

chamber / short ram intake = low/midrange driveable HP
CAI = high end gains better suited for track times when you stay in the upper power band.

 

both sheets show a common issue w/ the Fit...cams give out at about 6k. Sure the Fujita continued to show gains on the downward trend! but it looked like 2-3 HP or so. For a lightly modified car I don't see the value for the price, for any of the aftermarket intakes. As stated, even for a supercharged car, a simple drop-in filter probably has much better overall value.

Now if we change cams, exhaust, possibly some cylinder head work, build the bottom end, and go NA, surely a CAI change would be a better investment. I just think it is funny we're all sitting here evaluating such small increases in an already small engine! Remember, I come from the Mustang world where CAIs and re-flashes routinely discover 20-30 hp.

 

When you speak of value do you mean hp/$ ratio's?

I think for most drivers out there a short ram will do the job just fine. The bulk of their driving is in the city and not in the upper RPM's where a CAI would show it's true gains.

Maybe even a two section intake like Injen or AEM so it be used as a short ram and then converted on track days to a CAI.

Another option would be to even find a way to funnel cold air from the fender area up to the short ram filter.

 

That is how I tend to think, yes...cost vs gains...but of course, there are other aspects of ownership which could be affected by modifying. For example, if the air filter is relocated into the inner fender well it becomes slightly more difficult to replace/clean...people also talk about possibilty of water ingestion. To me these are really insignificant, but I do consider them in making a purchase decision.

To those who could care less and just want to buy something to bolt on their car, I say go for it! Been there done that...but w/ two kids I have to be a bit more conservative in my mods.

 

Bypass valve > water ingestion.

But yes some people out there don't really plan out what they want to use their car for and just buy the coolest or cheapest thing possible and throw things together without considering part interaction.

 

like i said in my pervious post, dyno the car with the hood closed and no big fan feeding the short ram air and it will lose or make no power at all. once the short ram starts to ingest the 130 degree engine bays temps it will not make power, better response maybe. im at the dyno at least 3 days a week ive seen it all.... if the JDM tuners have all this knowlege over us stupid Americans why is it that just about every HKS, greddy, and ARC lose power on subaru's

 

805FitSport, as I mentioned before, I do not disagree in principle that cold air is better...because it obviously is preferred by all OEMs. However, there several other variables besides underhood temps which play a part here...overall intake & runner length, duct sizing, air filter design, not to mention the hood-closed air flow driving dynamics...who knows, w/ the hood closed at 60 MPH, there could possibly be a low press zone in the area just above the radiator, and a short ram may not even see a direct blast of hot air from the radiator. Regardless, temps reductions are only a part of the equation.

But heck, forget about all of the fancy talk...bring two Fits (AT or Manual) and lets bolt on a short ram (T1R) and then a good CAI as the only mod. Bring them both to the track, and let the same driver make back-to-back passes. We can let the 60', 1/8, 1/4, and ETs do the talking. Should actually be very interesting.

 

that would be badass to take them to the track!, i have test the AEM, Fujita, and the Injen intake and we made the most power out of the injen CAI with a RSX fujita air filter.... weird!

 

sorry for bringing this thread up, i know it's a old thread. but i was just curious doesn't anybody notice the difference between the usdm market vs the japanese market? if you look at the usdm market, most of them all they care about is "drag racing" or pretty much anything to do with all out power. while the japanese market cares more about driving pleasure and response.

look at the cars what they consider "sports" cars. a 300hp nissan fairlady z isn't a "real" sports car to them, while a 135hp miata is a real sports car.

so it comes to no surprise to me that when they build their products for the japanese market, they are more inclined towards quick throttle response vs all out power. and when they on are on the racing track, midrange power and torque (and throttle control) is more important than top end power.