look what i found. this seems like it will work. ge8 tb=52mm and gd3 tb =45mm.
gd3 tb below

ge8 tb below

 

tagged for interest.

 

I 110% agree with you on this one...




Beer bottles should have larger mouths so I can drink it faster...


Very nice! How much?









Back on topic:

How much would a GE8 TB cost and where would be the cheapest place to get one?

 

You can get them brand new from Honda (Majestic Honda) for a little over $450 plus shipping.

 

im not totally sure they bolt up completely but they are plug and play. same sensors and signals sent.

 

"im not totally sure they bolt up completely but they are plug and play. same sensors and signals sent."

lol...not to go back off topic...but look at that picture of that invisible TB and say that aloud. Funny stuff

 

subscribed

 

What about the EVAP port on the ge8 Throttle body??

Marko!!

 

is there any way to just plug that off since the gd3 wont be utilizing that?

 

it's kinda like breathing thru a snorkel vs a garden hose...same diameter but garden hose is much more restrictive

 

guess u have never tried a funnel before!!!!!!!!!!!

how long does it take to drink 3 beers? about 20 sec if u were good?

i have funneled 3 beers in about 2 sec!!!!!!!!!!

with a long tube the gravity will force feed it past your mouth in a hurry (funneling is kinda like forced induction)

 

exactly

u don't understand

 

Sorry to bring back an old thread which many of you probably would prefer dead, but I'll be heading to Europe for work shortly and have some interest in the possibility of bringing back some of these throttle bodies. However, my question doesn't concern that, its more a discussion on what makes a valid modification to the throttle body area.

Let me begin by saying I spend a good amount of my time thinking about conductance (how much flow can move through a system) and all the formulas I have ever seen lead to to believe that it doesn't matter if the intake manifold flange is small, there are still gains to be made in flow by going to a larger throttle bore with this set up. The reasons for this are 1) conductance is a function of diameter and length, by reducing the length of your constriction you linearly increase conductance, so cut 2 out of 3 inches of conductance limit from your system you'll flow about 66% more air. 2) If you have two holes which are the same diameter and one has a throttle plate, the throttle plate is a serious constriction, you need this to be the big diameter part if you want to prevent it from being the pumping limit. 3) Throttle bore velocity should be unimportant at this point as their is no fuel, and if anything lower velocities here result in more laminar flow.

Can someone tell me why I'm wrong here? Does anyone have the pin outs for the Honda DBW connector as it seems an adapter will be necessary?

 

On an NA 1.5L you want flow velocity as high as possible through the intake. Too big charge piping/manifold or throttle body will adversely affect cylinder filling as well as atomization when the fuel is introduced..

This is why Honda uses such narrow runners on the primary tubes, along with tiny ports, back-cut valves and cam profiles that induce swirl. If you are looking to increase top end power you could go to 5-7" velocity stocks inside a tapered round plenum with the TB flange angled 15-45* offset. But again this would hurt your "streetable" power.

A 64mm throttle body would be complete overkill and would hurt your low and midrange power.

You can flow way more than either the L15A1 or the L15A7 could possibly use in NA form on their respective stock throttle bodies.

Under boost you should be able to flow over 500cfm @ STP even on a GD throttle body.

 

Hmmmm.....fair enough that a reasonable response but consider a couple things. Comparisons of NA vs FI flow through the throttle bottle aren't exactly apples to apples, most certainly with enough pressure you'll get the throttle body to flow outrages amounts of gas, with 14.7 PSI that engine would be breathing like a 3 L motor right? Further gas flow velocity in the intake port area and where fuel atomization and mixing occurs will be a function of the port runner design not the diameter of the throttle body. I agree that potentially too large a throttle body could hurt power in the low band, but then I also dont really understand how.

Working with carburetors its simple, to low a gas velocity and your venturi action goes away, the fuel doesn't flow or mix well and the engine has flat spots and stumbles at low revs (unless you set up a big accelerator pump valve or something), but with EFI motors? Since there is no fuel at the throttle body none of this should be a problem, and since the fuel is injected under pressure through tiny holes onto a hot surface fuel atomization shouldn't be an issue either. Then whats the problem, cylinder filling? Its possible, some engines do use tumbler valves for low rev performance increase so I'll buy it, but still I'd like to set one up myself and just check.

 

Give it a shot and post up what you find!

But there is a choke flow threshold that you can estimate based on diameter of the hole, and then how much of the hole is obstructed, and that is the reason I used CFM.

Much like a compressor inducer where you have the compressor wheel its' self taking up space in the inlet, the throttle body plate takes up a surprising amount of space as well as interupts laminar flow.

Max CFM is going to be the same NA or FI, boost just changes the density of air in those cubic feet. And while the engine might flow similar to a 3.0L at 1 bar boost, the volume that can pass through the inlet remains the same.

500cfm at 1 bar takes up the same amount of space at 500cfm at 2 bar, there is just more mass flowing in that 500cfm at 2 bar because the charge is denser.

Flow velocity is very much affected at the throttle body before it gets to the ports. If you have the air stalling from choking or turbulence or slowing down because the throttle body is too large you will not be filling the ports fast enough, so no matter how well designed your ports air they cannot make up for inefficiencies in other parts of the system.

The ports can only do so much if the charge is going slow before it gets to them. And remember on our EFIs we have the fuel being injected where the runners from the manifold get divided to feed the intake ports, you want velocity as high as possible before it gets to the ports and the bowls behind the valves.

You want to keep flow around 0.4mach through the charge pipes and throttlebody and just below 0.6mach through the runners and ports. Above that and it starts to choke, below that and low-mid range suffers from poor cylinder filling.

The throttle body determines how much flow the runners will see and at what rate it can fill the plenum, runners and then the ports. So if the throttle body is too big, flow through the plenum runners and ports will be slow, but more volume can be delivered up top.

If the throttle body is too small you will have good velocity, but risk choking the motor at upper rpm.

This is why I would stick with a stock size throttle body unless you are shooting for >350whp worth of air on a GD or even more on the larger GE throttlebody.

The whole system has to be complementary, which is why so many people just bolt on parts and wind up spending a lot of money only to hurt performance.

 

Too much throttle body reduces the velocity of air flow.... Without enough air flow velocity the combustion chamber will not take in enough air to make power.... The 4 valve Vtec system works the way it does to increase velocity at lower RPM by only opening 2 valves until more air is needed as the revs climb and the throttle opening is opened enough to provide more air flow at a higher rate.

 

Exactly right!

Our T-Bodies are already large enough to flow more than the engine can take in. 45mm diameter with a throttle plate and bar that probably take up 3-4mm across the hole at WOT should still allow for about 500cfm when compared to similar sized compressor inlets.

Instead of a bigger throttle body to increase throttle response, you would be better suited by getting an electronic throttle controller. (I know you already have one TC)

 

I can remember a lot of guys bolting huge Holleys on stock engines and one guy with 2 of them sticking up through the hood of his big block Camaro... Other guys that paid to have cams with outrageous durations and lifts with stock compression ratios... I had a stripped down 65 Chevy SWB pickup with a Crane Fireball 300 street cam kit with lifters and springs, a very trick 5 angle back cut valve job and a little 650 double pumper and it looked like shit... It was a low dollar big block Chevy project that had the right combination of parts on it. A guy that is still making a fortune building racing engines and ruled the roost at the Jack In the Box where all of the early 70s street racers hung out.... Shutting him down 2 out of 3 with all of those people freaking out was an amazing feeling..... Nobody had seen an old truck with a 2 speed Powerglide and 10.50X 15" cheater slicks lift the front wheels off of the ground before.....

 

Wheel-standing on the street in a Chevy (C10?) pickup? lol That is nuts. Did you ever twist the frame with that monster? Those 2 and 3 speed powerglides put up with a ridiculous amount of abuse.

But it is amazing what properly matched parts can do! Look at how some full race NA motors can have greater than 100% VE at parts of the map! Ram tuning is another kind of black magic area but just goes to show that you don't need the most outrageous parts to make power.

Bigger is not always better when it comes to engines and components