You don't feel the extra 115 lbs from the K motor. It's the difference between a 115 lb Asian (sorry but they don't weigh much usually) and a 230 lb American.

If you happen to be 200 lb already, then that is the way your car would have felt already. Add more weight or use a different driver to subtract weight, The difference is really felt in the acceleration more than anything else. Power/weight acceleration ratio.

Now, if you are going to Auto cross, road race, course your Fit, Stock or K-swapped you are going to need Suspension upgrades to perform better. With the K Swapped Fit you will need just a way better Suspension for the Rear and a stiffer dampener for the front. Still a very trackable car.

The J's racing Fit GT with the K24, Overall lap time in the K20 Battle (civics, integras, even an MRS) Came in Second place in over-all qualifying lap time one place below the K20 Powered Toyota MR-S! The civics and Integra's lapped slower than the Fit! check below: (RESULTS AT 2:49 seconds)

YouTube - k20a battle part 2


Power is “what you are going to use it for.” Most people (like myself included) will not be on a race track, and will not feel the difference from the weight gain. BUT will feel the performance difference of over double the HP to the wheels! It's a good "new" baseline to start from.

Add bolt ons or Forced Induction to a Kswap down the road, still reliable HP up to 350WHP.

And Legal Drag racing is Fun by the way! So there's where the more Power the better 1/4 mi
Time and MPH.


SO heres the break down:


_______________KSwap____ VS.____ F.I.

HP:_____________ 1______________ 0

Agility:__________ 0 ______________ 1

Worth it:_________ ? _______________? (to each his own)

Crash Tested
For use ON Road use__ 0 ______________ 0

 

My breakdown

K series
1. motor/tranny/wire/ecu $5k; drive shaft, mounts, cables, headers and extras 3k; ECU 1k; labor 3-5k; total roughly $12-14k is that about right?
2. baseline 220hp (roughly adding ECU/headers)
3. cutting frame/ radiator support/ shifter tunnel
4. nonreversible
5. power potential
6. 2-4 months downtime (rental car cost roughly 500 per month)

SC/Turbo 4-7lbs setup
1. kit 3-4k; labor 1k; total roughly installed $4-6k (if little extras are needed)
2. baseline 150-165 whp ~ 180-200hp
3. no cutting of frame, supports, nor shifter assemblies
4. reversible
5. roughly maxing out power potential, unless building block (forge pistons, rod, and etc)
6. 1 day to 1 week down time (rental car cost of roughly $40 per day or 200 for the week)

If these are my choices, I’d go SC/Turbo for the simple fact, I bought the car to drive, not as a project. If I was going to go all out and make a sleeper/track car, then maybe, but then I’d prefer a gen 2 GS300 with a 2jzte and a big oh turbo on it, making 500 wrhp on pump gas, or the GS430 with a S/C.

But back on topic…if we are to discuss about K20 vs SC/Turbo I think we should make another thread instead of clouding up JRSC thread…

The time of 2:06 around button willow is slow compared to other 150-200whp cars?

 

K series Swap (revised by "gettinafit")
1. motor/tranny/wire/ecu $4K; drive shaft, mounts,cables (come with the swap) , headers and extras 2k (including extras); ECU 1k; labor (should only be 2K MAX so little cutting and none of it is precision, take 15 mins) ; total roughly Lowest 6.5K to 10K MAX (seriously Just Trust me!)
2. baseline 220hp (roughly adding ECU/headers)
3. cutting frame/ radiator support (A reversible thing.)
4. Stock Engine mounting location. Stock FIT Engine Mounts are retained. ALso a reversible thing.
5. power POTENTIAL is higher!
6. If you have all necessary parts, 2 days! No rental car!! Hahaha unless for a day or two!

SC/Turbo 4-7lbs setup (posted by "ToyotaLover")
1. kit 3-4k; labor 1k; total roughly installed Lowest 3k up to 6k MAX (if little extras are needed)
2. baseline 150-165 whp ~ *180-200hp* (180-200hp Not for the 4-7 lb setup)
3. no cutting of frame, supports, *nor shifter assemblies* (In response : Shifter bolt down location is stock for the K Swap, just cut up the RSX shifter box and bolt it down.)
4. reversible
5. roughly maxing out power potential, unless building block (forge pistons, rod, and etc)
6. 1 day to 1 week down time (rental car cost of roughly $40 per day or 200 for the week)



These are the options.

There has been much discussion as to which is cost friendly, or even "worth" it, for either.

Post your comments here!

Enjoy!

 

Judging from the Above, (and kinda of knowledgeable on the K Swap.... )

I would say the the main difference is 3K for more potential.

Or save 3K and max out your healthy potential of the Stock Fit Engine.

Do whichever you like, all is FUN I can certainly tell you from the K20A2 Swap (RSX TYPE S) side of things!
One can only go up from a new stock engine, new baseline!

 

First thanks, I was just getting ready to make a thread.

Do not forget that the wiring of this said setup isn't even released yet. Currently we are waiting on the results from Hasport. So right now you can't even get anyone to help or do the swap because of the ecu/wiring.

Now to discuss.





Something not mentioned is that you will be pushing an oem engine and I honestly do not care what any manufacturer says, but your stock axles, clutch and motor are being beaten on and were not designed to handle the added power. Does that mean those items will blow out ASAP, no. It does mean they will fail much quicker and have a higher % to break than they lead on to the customer. I've seen a lot of professionals make oem parts last but the avg consumer does not. SO they can tell you it will be safe and they have had no problems but not everyone drives like them and it will be problems sooner than later.

When I debated doing a K vs a B-series in my crx I had this very same debate with myself. Is building up of one motor better than a very costly swap? I decided it wasn't. Don't forget you will have a pretty much OEM motor swap. It can take a lot more abuse than a modified engine. In most cases I would take a stock engine vs a modified engine. The stock engine will take more abuse and be more reliable than a modified one.

With all of that being said. Not everyone needs to have a K-swap. With my Fit I am more than happy with the stock motor with just bolt-ons. It is peppy and fun while doing everything I want. I know a lot of people just want a little peppier car and not the fastest thing on earth. All of this really comes down to user pref. If what you want is just as fast as you can go than the K20 is the better platform. If you want more fun but don't need what the K20 offers then that is fine as well.

To those who feel the K20 is the endall for going fast you are wrong. If this L-series is anything like D-series I know plenty of boosted D-series around me making over 300whp and are streetable. Me personally I enjoy my all motor L-series. In my crx I wanted a K-swap to have more potential and be able to be as close to a safer setup than a fully stressed out b-series.

 

From my experience with swapping a K24A2 with Quaiffe LSD equipped EP3 Si tranny into a 92 VX hatch, I would say that your total cost for the K swap is on the high side. Some of these would not be needed/applicable for a K series swap into a Fit, but here's a breakdown of the swap that we did with a lot of extra performance parts like LSD, clutch, flywheel, IM, Stage 3 axles, etc. for less than $11K, but of course we had no labor cost to deal with and down time would have been no more than 2 weeks had we sourced all of the parts prior to tearing out my bro-in-law's B16:

Engine: Complete K24A2 longblock $ 1,900.00 Transmission: K20A1 Civic Si 5 speed transmission $ 775.00 Quaife LSD $ 902.00 Clutch and Flywheel:Exedy Clutch $ 175.00 ACT flyhweel $ 258.00 Bolts and bushing for Clutch/Flywheel: $ 50.00 Mounts:Hasport $ 555.00 Upper Si transmission bracket: $ 38.00 Wiring/ECU:Hondata K-Pro w/ K20 ECU: $ 1,200.00 Conversion harness $ 376.00 RSX Engine harness: $ 250.00 RSX Charging harness: $ 150.00 Shift linkage:RSX Shifter box and cables $ 170.00 Mounting Kit $ 150.00 Intake Manifold/Intake:Complete RBC manifold: $ 175.00 RSX manifold lower cover: $ 13.50 Gasket and bolts: $ 11.00 IM gasket: $ 9.00 TB studs, Fuel rail studs, insulator: $ 9.00 RSX-S TB: $ 300.00 Karcepts TB adapter: $ 110.00 Custom Cold Air Intake for RBC manifold(K20A.org): $ 130.00 Radiator/Cooling:Radiator and reserve tank relocation kit $ 40.00 RSX-S Radiator hoses: $ 23.00 Thermostat: $ 30.00 FAL Slim fan: $ 217.00 Fuel supply: Custom Fuel system Lines, fittings, fpr, rail, and pump: $ 600.00 Exhaust/Header:RSX-S Exh. Manifold gasket $ 15.00 Custom headerDC Sports: $ 360.00 Axles: DSS Stage 3: $ 1,035.00 Misc parts:RSX-S Oil pan: $ 175.00 Civic Si Starter $ 50.00 TSX Ignition Coils $ 15.00 Oil Pan Gasket: $ 20.00 Si transmission axle seals: $ 19.00 Hondabond: $ 15.00 Hybrid insert, fan switch, thermo unit, and Golden Eagle fuel rail(fuel supply): $ 248.00 Primary O2 sensor(K20A.org): $ 165.00 RSX-S intermediate shaft(K20A.org): $ 80.00 Throttle cable, PRB TB gasket, IAT sensor: $ 50.00 Serpentine belt: $ 23.00 Misc. vacuum & coolant hoses/lines: $ 15.00 Total Money spent: $ 10,901.50

This set-up dynoed a typical 205 whp and 170 wtq w/ very heavy 24" slicks mounted to it. I'm not familiar with the radiator supports or shift tunnel needing to be cut like the hydraulic transmission equipped Civic's and Integra's do. I'd have to defer to someone that's done the swap to be sure though. Otherwise, I think your breakdown/comparison is pretty darn accurate.

 

Call Brian at Hasport!!!!!!!! He "CAN" work with you, that is his business! I told this to "ComposiMo."

And I factored that into the extras cost! (probably no more than $500 for wiring conversion).

 

don't forget about the vroommmmpshhhht... hahaha
Im gonna boost the L15 pretty soon in a few months. everything is going to cost me $1500 dollars (calculated) and im going to add another $500 on top of that for things that i can't possibly account for.
Of course for that price im going to build everything myself, i have a lot of tools and welders that i know how to use. and ill be street tuning on my own so i don't think it'll ever have to go to a shop.
for me, im not going for max power, maybe 130 to the wheels. i just want a little more power to pass people on the freeway, and just so i can tell people that i have turbo on my car.
So my predicted final cost would be about $2000 dollars max.

seriously for $6000 dollars to boost the L15, i would just take it to a reputable shop to build me a custom turbo kit, that would have a way better manifold, downpipe, exhaust system...etc. and the final cost would probably be like $5000 including engine management and a good tune.

 

Don't get ahead of yourself, Everyone knows I built my setup myself. i was estimating Labor cost for the "average Joe".

Go you guangalang. Make a build tread like mines. I wanna see your work!

 

lol for sure!! so far i've only collected about $500 dolars worth of parts, got a little more to go

 

Obviously Brian doesn't care because he never returns calls or takes them. Hard to say its that easy when the person that is the only one to help doesn't want to help.

 

Ok…I was comparing apples with apples, but if you go without paying a shop to do the work…then it’ll go like this

K series Swap (revised by "ToyotaLover")
1. a. motor/tranny/wire/ecu $4K
b. drive shaft, mounts, cables (come with the swap) , headers and extras 2k
c. ECU 1-1.5k (depending on type of ECU)
d. outside labor (should only be 2K MAX for the hard parts
e. ECU rewiring if needed including throttle body
total 9k(conservative up to 12k depending on the install)
2. baseline 220hp (roughly adding ECU/headers)
3. cutting frame/ radiator support (A reversible thing if you like weld marks.)
4. Stock Engine mounting location. Stock FIT Engine Mounts are retained.
5. power POTENTIAL is higher! (I agree)
6. it take 1 full day and 1-2 guys just to remove the motor, half a day to 1 day to do all the prep work to put mounts, on motor/tranny/frame and include cutting , 1day to 1 month of wiring and waiting on responses from HASPORT to give you detail on the drive by wire, 1 day to mount the motor and the accessories, and a few more days to clear out the bugs. I think this is achievable if 2 people had nothing to do except this car on a regular 8 hr shift. It can be done in 24 hrs, or you have more people and or more money to labor. (this is based on working in a shop or two in my history of playing with cars)
7. goes vroommmmmmm…….then bwwaahhhh!!!

SC/Turbo 4-7lbs setup (revised by "ToyotaLover")
1. a. kit 3-4k, or 2-3k if you got the hook ups (comes with all necessary stuff)
b. labor 500 or less if you get s decent shop and free if you are somewhat competent and have tools (8-12 hr install time)
total only $3k
2. baseline 150-165 whp ~ *180-200hp* (155whp(5lbs) from JRSC, and 165(6lbs) from T1R)
3. no cutting of frame, supports,
4. reversible
5. roughly maxing out power potential at 10psi with upgraded injectors and tuning (180whp max from the HKS turbo fit in China, and also HKS’s 10psi turbo fit), unless building block (forge pistons, rod, and etc)
6. 8-12 hrs down time to install….(I installed a Blitz S/C on a Xa in 3 hrs, a HKS turbo kit for WRX in 6-8 hrs, and can lower the fit in 30-40 mins, and exhaust on fit in 10 mins)
7. goes pshhhhhh!!!

So the difference is apples to apples is $5-6k in price, and whp is 20-30 more off the bat.

 

A lot more then that on the wiring guys. We have been waiting about 3mths or more and get NO feedback what so ever. They are excited about helping but regardless we are still waiting to hear something.

Also do not forget guys, All motor HP is a lot differant than boosted HP. A all motor 200whp is a lot faster than a FI 200whp.

 

no...I think you are refering to torque and response now.

vw R32 or audi TT...
mustang gt vs supra tt
etc.

 

Any chance you guys have contacted hybrid racing about a conversion harness? We used one of their K series conversion harnesses for the EG and it worked pretty much flawlessly. Only one code upon start-up that was fixed with a quick look at the wiring schematic in the service manual. So...if they don't offer one already, they might be willing to create one if you can show them the market is there.

 

In lightweight Honda's, i.e. under 2500 lbs, his statement is technically true in most cases......at least from my experience. A 200 whp NA Civic hatch that weighs, for example, 2,000 lbs, will almost always produce quicker acceleration numbers than a 200 whp boosted Civic hatch at the same weight. For example, my best friend's race hatch weighs about 1700 lbs. without him in it, produces 235 NA whp, and runs 11.70's in the 1/4 mile. Generally, you'd need to be making 300+ whp in a boosted hatch to run the same kind of times. However, where weight becomes a factor, such as the much heavier vehicles listed above, I have no doubt that the torque of the boosted machine will compensate to close that gap.

 

(**Look to top I varied the price to a scale from the starting post.)**

Yes I do my own work, but my quote for labor is for a regular shop, not what I paid.
90/hr x 22 = 2000 (roughly) and that's on the high side of hours!

Once this kit is completely available to the public, and people are familiar with doing it, people will be doing this in their driveways like b-swaps and H swaps. The K for the old eg's and ek's need welding and is non-reversible, at least the K in a Fit is reversible.

Also I didn't use DBW, I converted back to a cable throttle.

Even if you throw in an extra 1K on real Misc. Miscellaneous things, it's still 10K.

Anyway, with the yearn to do what one wants based on knowledge, then it's a good deal if that person feels it is a good deal. I just hope that I was able to educate people. Those who are interested know that I'm here to help!

I know what I got for what I spent, and I know where I'm prospectively going. Worth EVERY PENNY!

 

It all boils down to how much power does one need, and what does one want to spend to achieve that goal.

Cost wise, I believe a FI to our little L15 will do for the time being, and the utter cost to power ratio will be low.

As for the hard core, and the people wanting the most out of the Fit, the K20 will be more suited as long as it is within financial range.

I for one, don't need a whole lot of power, just enough to compensate for the AT and the ability to at least cut off minivans....damn them 4cyl minivans keep up...(wouldn't let me pass)

 

It is tough to say this swap costs X because not everyone has access to those hookup and deals. Generally you can expect to pay over 10k easily.

The problem with the wiring is you still have to run the Fit ecu in order to use your cluster and a lot of other parts. It isn't just an adaptor issue. You have to have one ecu running the engine and another running the rest of the car. The problem we haven't figured out is how you do that while making your stock ecu ignore the engine side of things. We have had all the parts to finish this project (minus the wiring) for awhile and have also for awhile been waiting on response from Hasport.

Hasport was very willing to help with the wiring but again saying your going to help and actually helping are two differant things.

To the topic at hand it really does come down to what exactly the owner wants.

 

The Fit ECU must be Re-flashed by Doug at Hondata.

Hondata and Hasport are the missing links. Comming soon!

I should tell them to come on this board. (I think I will!)

I agree, goals are key, make your own choice everyone, don't listen to one or two advices! (meaning gettinafit or toyotalover ) We are not means all / end all!
If you only want a tad more HP it is better to spend the money on FI than bolt ons at first. You could rack up a list higher than the price of a turbo or SC and still not get the gains!
And of course for the total power hungry and investor, start with a K Swap and over time maybe even FI the Kswap you'd be wicked quick!