joey joey joey, now even you can't keep up with all your BS From your own post #33 in this very thread

"If u're already running a/c, the fan is on anyways. So still a useless mod." Looks like it to me that you did write this BS.

"But most of the time during cruising the city, yes, the fan is on. Esp when its hot out."

More of your lack of knowledge I already told you the fan does not come on and stay on even in 90-95 degree weather ALL THE TIME your not listening again joey or your lack of reading comprehension is still causing you problems.

And who really cares if my gauges are a degree or two off what's the big deal your trying to make this is not rocket science we are talking here.
joey joey your just grabbing at straws now trying to make these USELESS unsubstantiated BS claims now you are trying to put down auto meter gauges with NO EVIDENCE WHAT SO EVER. Like I said even if I agreed with you (and I don't) what difference would a two or three degree difference in a gauge reading make??????? You are forgetting that the Fit/Jazz DOESN'T EVEN COME WITH A GAUGE (whoops I forgot you don't drive one anymore) I guess Honda engineers thought that information on engine temperature is not important enough to even bother putting in a gauge????

First it was spoon then it was J's racing and then Aj racing, and now your trying to put down another well known and respected company, auto meter, without ever seeing my car or gauge package you are ASSUMING mine are off with nothing to back you up.... your stretching again joey.

Again if you knew what your were commenting on... my JAZZ has the all plastic intake manifold not the half and half like the USDM one so the heat is not transferring to the manifold from the engine block so what good would ANOTHER piece of plastic do?????.

O wow the engine has to work a lot harder "to accommodate that load by adding more fuel." joey the engine doesn't add more fuel your making things up again due to your lack of knowledge. The ALTERNATOR may have to produce more power to run the fan but the increase in load on the ENGINE is minimal.

joey the BS you are trying to spread is NOT COMMON KNOWLEDGE it's just BS you are making up as you go along. BECAUSE YOU NEVER WORKED ON YOUR FIT EVEN WHEN YOU HAD ONE and yep your right anyone can do my mods BUT NOT YOU BECAUSE YOU NEVER DO YOUR OWN WORK YOU JUST STEAL OTHER PEOPLE WORK TO POST.

"From just turning a few wrenches on your Fit and doing little mods that practically ANYONE can do, you can gain VAST knowledge enough to discredit me?" you said it for me thanks yes I TURN MY OWN WRENCHES and yes I have had the knowledge BEFORE TURNING THE WRENCHES unlike you that never does the work only flapping your gums about things you never know about because YOU NEVER TURN THE WRENCHES. This is a FIT site you might TRY and learn something about them before opening mouth and inserting your foot

 

no use talking to you. you're very closed minded, and everyone can see that.

i'll continue to flap my gums, and you can continue to do nothing worthy of my respect. Most users here are also USDM (and pertains this thread pertains to USDM), so telling them a thermal gasket is useless mod is stupid on your part.

i provided proof with my examples. I will further back up my claims with pictures soon. (regarding added load and autometer)

I never bashed any of those companies. I only bash the concept of low temp thermostats/switches. You, however, are bashing Hondata and me in a very childish manner. In the end of the day, the Fit is still a Honda. Telling me to stay off the Fit site is like me telling you to "stop giving advice about the USDM Fit. You're not in the US, so stop giving advice to USDM Fits b/c u never turned a wrench on one.". Now does that sound mature or reasonable at all? Cuz its exactly how you sound. Believe me, i've turned wrenches in many cars, not including my own. From doing simple electronic installs (alarms/sound systems) to building/installing supercharger and turbo setups, please, with your Fit, do something cool if u want to prove to me that you're knowledgeable and the supposed expert in performance modifications in the Fit or any car for that matter.

I'm not a person who will not pay respect where it is due. If you do something cool to exhibit your knowledge, i'd tell you. (like your IAT testing experiment)

 

at idle, fully warmed


at idle, forced fan on (a/c off). notice the difference in S.Trim (real time fuel trim). 4% difference, CLV 1% difference, and all the other sensors. A/F, electrical load, etc, etc.


heres a datalog of the CLV+Fan on and off. flat line is idling state.


from this, everyone see turning the fan on earlier and unnecessarily affect your fuel trim in closed loop, therefore affecting overall gas mileage and adding unnecessary load to your electrical system and engine? 4% difference in fuel trim was logged in a span of a mere 10seconds. Now imagine that extra 4% fuel being dumped all the time unnecessarily in the span of your driving. thats a lot of fuel.

everyone can perform the same test with their own cars using available ELM loggers + PC. This or similar products. Its very useful to help see accurate readings of sensors.
Laptop Dyno and OBD2 Scan Tool

 

Psssttt Joey I got some news for you and your not going to like it.... the Fit/JAZZ has get this now ...... 2 separate fans yep TWO and guess what one is the engine coolant and the other is wait for it .....the A/C fan and guess what they run independent from each other. Color your face red yet again from your lack of knowledge about the Fit/Jazz. The engine coolant fan is controlled by the good old Fan switch and the A/C fan is controlled by the nope it's not the fan switch it's controlled by the A/C system.

And with all your trying to change the subject yet again guess what my added gauge is just a monitoring device all engine control is performed by the ECT sensor that guess what..... is still in the stock normal location operating as it normally would.

The difference in temperatures between gauges could be caused by many variables like sensor location and IN NO WAY INDICATES A FAULTY READING BY AUTOMETER GAUGES they work just fine. And if you installed the gauge in the car you are referring to I think "user installation problems" is probably the answer.

Your nose is going to grow again joey you are making things up about me YET AGAIN.... HERE IS AN OPEN CHALLENGE TO YOU JOEY AND IT'S AN EASY ONE SHOW ME THE QUOTE IN ANY POST THAT I HAVE MADE IN ANY THREAD WHERE I TOLD YOU TO STAY OFF THIS SITE...... NEVER HAPPENED IT'S A FIGMENT OF YOUR IMAGINATION JUST LIKE YOUR SPARK PLUG CHANGING ADVICE. I HAVE SAID YOUR ADVICE DOESN'T APPLY TO THE FIT MANY TIMES BECAUSE THAT IS TRUE.

And again another baseless simpleton post from you the only thing I have said about hondata is that they make ECUs NOT ENGINE PARTS or complete race vehicles I have never said one bad word about their products very different than you.

As for your data wow a 4 % difference like I said a minimal amount of extra load. And in the real world the difference is so minimal I can't measure the difference in gas mileage before installation or afterward same same. And joey the fans DO NOT RUN ALL THE TIME HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THAT BEFORE YOU FINALLY UNDERSTAND??? And joey am I missing something here where did you get a FIT that has a spoon low temperature thermostat and fan switch installed??? I think your trying to confuse people again..... Come on joey where did that data REALLY come from did you go out and buy a new fit and spoon parts just to prove me wrong????? If the data you posted is not from a Fit/Jazz with a low temperature thermostat and fan switch installed it's NOT RELEVANT TO THIS POST.

You were the one to try and change the subject into a post about intake manifolds when YOU brought up MY installation of insulation ON MY CAR WHICH HAPPENS TO BE A NON USDM VERSION joey you brought the subject up and now your trying to say I gave out incorrect advice your the person with reading comprehension problems you talked about MY VEHICLE NOT A USDM VEHICLE and I SIMPLY RESPONDED TO YOUR QUESTION. And the advice still stands even with the extra gasket the manifold passes right over the hot engine ( enough about the intake this is a thermostat and fan switch post so if you want to debate this advice try and make your own post).


So the bottom line is that despite what joey is babbling on about the spoon low temperature thermostat and fan switch WORK AS ADVERTISED AND SO DOES THE AUTOMETER GAUGE SET. I have had both installed in my car for over 15,000 km and NO PROBLEMS WHAT SO EVER WITH EITHER THE GAUGE OR SPOON THERMOSTAT AND FAN SWITCH AND NO MEASURABLE DIFFERENCE IN FUEL ECONOMY. SO IF YOU GUYS WANT TO LISTEN TO SOMEONE WHO HAS HAD ZIP, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA, HANDS ON EXPERIENCE WITH THESE PARTS AND HAS NEVER DONE ANYTHING ON A FIT/JAZZ BE MY GUEST.

 

um...psst..claybaby, i know the a/c and radiator have their own separate fans on MOST honda's, even mine. They both turn on when the engine and a/c is on. I have logs of that too if u want. Those above logs are WITHOUT a/c. just radiator fan. radiator fan turns on independently when a/c is not on. Want more hard proof? cuz i can def provide.

Yes, i know about the variables with Autometer gauges. I was wondering if my gauge was inaccurate or whether or not i tapped in the wrong source. To eliminate that variable, i put both the MAP sensor and the gauge on ONE vacuum source together. Gauge still read 3psi off. I researched on why it was so, i read that MANY ppl experience the same thing, even factory mounted gauges on STI's, EVOs, and SRT-4's. Comes to find out Autometer is the lower end of gauge manufacturers. Search it on google. This was not only with a boost gauge, but also an electronic oil psi gauge. I put the sender on 2 different locations, still read the same oil psi. I later sold the oil psi. Nothing beats the OBD2 sensor readings straight from the ECU.

dont try to hide the fact that you did undermine Hondata's ability and knowledge (by that stupid comparison thread you made). They are the ones who originally stated the low temp stats/switches are crap, and provided evidence. They dont build race engines? I provided the link and you can see that they build for their own race cars. Engine parts? Without a tunable ecu, how would most B, D, K, H, F series Honda's be able to be even put to the tracks? They manufacture and sell the thermal gasket as well. Point: Hondata stated such "blasphemy" about low temp switch/stats. I've talked with them about it also way back when i wanted to do such mod also. I questioned it the same way you did, but except i was open-minded to their explanation. (SAME part number as yours, they interchange between all hondas.)

Its funny, u still forget that you got owned cannot explaining the difference in brake rotors. You go back and try to delete your posts and hiding your self-ownage in other threads. When i make a claim, you refute it and ask for proof, i provide proof, and you refute my proof. Its a never ending cycle with you. And if you want to get picky about Fit advice, then stick to your non-USDM related threads. This is USDM based thread.

but yes, lets end it here (or at your next post if u decide to continue to bicker) and let the Fit owners decide for themselves. We both made our points, no need to further bicker and risk getting the thread deleted. Tossing little insults and caps locking sentences only make you look immature for your age. Its hard to not laugh at your posts when u do that.

Goodnight!

 

joey joey your doing it again that data is not from a Fit equipped with a low temperature thermostat and fan switch is it is IRRELEVANT TO THIS POST. I have to used caps so you get the points you have a hard time seeing and understanding things in lower case. So what's your point with the logging of some other car without the parts???? I guess you were just having problems with terminology again when you were talking about the fan not FANS and you still don't get that they are controlled by different things they are not interdependent and can and do run separately. Members don't need to see any more irrelevant data all they have to do is turn down the radio and listen to see when their fans are running or not or install an indicator light like I did so you can view the off/on cycles right from the drivers sat INSTANTLY. They will find that THE FANS DO NOT RUN ALL THE TIME THEY CYCLE ON AND OFF.

As for your beloved hondata like I said and you keep repeating SAY THIS TO YOURSELF THREE TIMES AND MAYBE IT WILL SINK IN HONDATA MAKES ECUs NOT ENGINE PARTS EXCEPT WHAT AN INSULATING GASKET SO I VALUE A COMPANY THAT ACTUALLY BUILDS ENGINE AND VEHICLE PARTS MORE THAN JUST AN ECU MANUFACTURER WHEN I'M BUYING ENGINE PARTS NOT AN ECU. And they don't build their own cars they put together cars from parts MADE BY OTHER COMPANIES not in house.

And joey again YOU brought up my car not me don't forget we other than USDM Fit/Jazz owners have been members and modding our cars long before you guys even got your cars in America.

Any member can delete their own posts so you could delete your but let's see posts by joey 466 or so now how about THREADS started by joey a pathetic SIX yep that's right joey has made a total of SIX threads in his name. But two of those you got DIYs from SOMEBODY ELSE so they don't count, one about houston nothing about working on a Fit, one fit totaled, one weirdo post about being anal and one about a fox. The other 460 posts are you injecting yourself into OTHER PEOPLE THREADS isn't it time you made a few threads of your own to demonstrate your (supposed) vast knowledge??

 

lets see you do something instead cuz u're the one with the Fit. You still have yet to demonstrate to me anything. I'll surely help any other Fit owner if they have questions regarding something within my knowledge. If i find any pertinent info that the Fit community could benefit from, i'll surely pass it on, even if its not my own. It doesnt harm anyone. I have my own projects to finish, you should get started on something.

If u think i never contributed anything to the Fit community, without me leading a member here to Innovative, there would never be a motor mount replacement kit for the USDM Fit so soon. Yah, call it insignificant if u want, but theres a small contribution from me.

 

Wow guys, this can go for ever

 

Can you give me the parts # and the prices, and what is the results.

 

man. i'm willing to get these parts just to see for myself.

to me it seems like 03DSM-RSX is the more closed minded. it seems that if someone has a fit, and has the parts, and has a guage, he'd probably know more about the operation of such car and parts than someone with a different care without these parts.

 

So the long and short of it is that "Joey" is saying that a thermostat and fan switch are a waste of time and a big marketing ploy by these companies are using to sell us something else.. at least for us honda guys anyways and he has backed this up with quotes/articles from Hondata.. on the other hand Claymore is saying that they do work and he is backing his opinion up with "hard" evidence and personal experience(s).

For the record I am totally open minded and some what believe Joey but also see the evidence from Claymore and then struggle to believe that the parts do very little and the little they do do has a negative effect on our cars.. is it possible that the negative effects that people have noticed is because they are DD's and not race car applications, maybe the fan switch/thermostat makes a positive difference on a race application because the engine is performing at its peak for a longer duration of time?

I'd love for someone else to jump in here, more knowledgeable than all of us and with a fit and with the parts installed and give us a 3rd opinion...

I vote for the discussions to continue with less hostility.. can't we all just get along?

 

This should be a no brainer. It's like going to the hospital and on one hand you have a EMT that's a doctor wannabe he knows a little about your problem because he has been hanging around the hospital getting coffee for the real doctors and listening to the doctors but has never done any operations.

In the other room you have a doctor that is a real doctor and has performed lots of operations like the one you need and has all the monitoring equipment to check and see how you are doing.

It's the same thing here. Joey has NO formal training in automobile mechanics he hangs around and watches others do the work while he make coffee runs. Joey doesn't own a Fit and has never installed a low temp thermostat on a Fit and couldn't tell you the operating temperature or when the fans are on or off because for one he doesn't have a Fit and any Fit he ever had did not have gauges installed or any system to monitor the fans. Joey tries to impress people with his BS and he sounds convincing while he is BSing but that is all it is.

I on the other hand have been installing and using low temperature thermostats since before Joey was born and successfully competed in and won many NHRA sanctioned events. I graduated as the top student from a 4 year auto mechanics program and have been one of the first people to be certified in auto mechanics by my state.

But the best reason to take my advice is that I was the first one here at FitfFreak to install a low temperature thermostat and fan switch and it has been in my car for 3 years with no problems and operating at the temperature I expected.

I have a coolant temperature gauge installed and an indicator light, that I built, and installed, that shows when my fan is operating or not so with those monitors I can constantly monitor my engines coolant temperature and if the fans are running or not.

I have been operating my Jazz daily for three years and have constantly monitored both the operating temperature and fan operation over a variety of operating conditions for that time so any DATA that I post is a result of direct knowledge from the light and gauges not mindless, uneducated, speculating, THEORIES like Joey would have you believe.

Your choice should be easy you want an EMT or a doctor doing your operation??

 

I like the Dr example

 

Okay, I understand this thread is old, claymore is banned and I'm just stirring up an argument, but I was wondering about the operating temperature of my Fit, and this is how it is on a GE8 Fit Sport with a CAI, 2.25" exhaust, and Denso IK22 Spark plugs:



That's the HOTTEST reading my ECT would give, even with the hardest of driving. It's 86 degrees outside, and this picture was taken after a long drive and at idle immediately after parking, and the engine was fully warmed up and running in closed loop, on 89 octane pump gas.

If you ask me, unless you are experiencing hotter combustion temperatures (due to something like say, NOS or Forced Induction and/or a higher compression ratio due to a milled head) that might cause your coolant temperatures to actually need to run cooler, with a full ECU tune, this modification might make sense and actually yield some gain. But, on our cars they're pretty dialed in from the factory. It's like Lyon[Nightroad] said in a thread once, that Honda are just about the masters at squeezing out every bit of naturally aspirated power while keeping the best efficiency out of the engine. If Hondata and other professional tuners claim that 185-200 is where the engine should be running operating temperature wise, then technically the Fits need an even hotter thermostat, not a cooler one.

 

Most modern HEMI guys put 180°-185° thermostats on their modded engines! With proper programming it seems like it's what's works the best...

Look on the internet, it seems like 180-185° is what works best on every engine regardless of brand... I would'nt go lower then that! The Switch may be useful on a Hot Auto-X session, and even more on a Automatic car, but the thermostat...

Vinyls do add horsepower too...

Marko!!

 

I am pleased with the way that the stock switch and thermostat are working... When the temperature is over 100 degrees ambient, IAT is over 160 while stopped, at an idle after a WOT run I have seen water temperature as high as 214... Cruising at 70, same ambient temperature it is seldom that it is over 185.... In cooler weather going down a long steep hill while in gear and off of the throttle it will drop to 174... I did put 2/3 of a bottle of Redline water wetter in the radiator which is supposed to lower the temperature by 6 degrees which sounds about right... Claymore is a cop in Thailand and drives a 1300cc Fit at very high speeds so the changes he made makes good sense... Kimo lives in Egypt and regardless of how he drives or what engine he has I am sure driving conditions and high ambient temperatures warrant... With the Hodata tune that came with the KWSC 10PSI kit my car runs cooler than stock without the water wetter as long as I'm not on boost.. The 5PSI setup with out the Hondata reflash actually ran hotter than it does now or when stock.... Oscar Jackson warns against using the Spoon thermostat because of the negative effect it has on the ECU function in maintaining the correct A/F ratio.

 

Both Coyote and DOHCtor have great points.

With the ambient temperature being over 100 degrees, and the temperature outside being 100 something with a high humidity, and driving as hard as possible at WOT, I could NOT get the temperature to break any higher than it did.

It would seem a 185 degree thermostat would bring out more benefit.

 

**Back from Dead**

Very interesting thread! Was ~~><~~ close to purchasing a J's Racing GK5 thermostat. Need to read a little more on how water temps are related to the CVT transmission. Thanks for all the good info here **Claymore**.