some misguided knowledge on turbos and superchargers and there heat output. superchargers do not NORMALLY use intercoolers because they do not produce much heat because air is forced by spinning a pulley.
turbos on the other hand should mostly run an intercooler if above 6psi. turbos spin at a minimum of 125000rpms so they produce more heat obviously.
most of u on here ive noticed saying they have swapped sr20s in there 240s, the stock sr20 system only runs 7psi but still utilizes an intercooler because over 6psi. the stock intercooler is a joke and is very small. u can max this thing out at 14 psi. also the ca18det, most years didnt run an intercooler or even a BOV. all of us 240 owners should know this!
the thing is, if u have a turbo or supercharger, it doesnt mean u HAVE to run an intercooler. think about it, if ur only running 5 psi it is pointless to block the air with an intercooler because there is no reason for it. just more "lag". im rambling now and im confusing even myself lmao.

anyway this is my first post so ill introduce,
btw i ive been on this forum looking around for a lil while lol
names christian
from california
dont have my fit yet, waiting for them to get my color in.
im a tech for honda
kinda unorthodox but its nice to meet u all and hope i didnt come off as a smartass

 

Since when did an INTERCOOLER have ANYTHING to do with the engine temps???? hahaha!


omg, thatsfunny.

An intercooler cools down the intake air charge temperature, not your engine... your engine doesn't increase much in water-temperature, because the radiator does its job... the intercooler cools down the intake air, which is heated a lot by the COMPRESSION of the air...

Speaking of which, the air is heated by COMPRESSION, not cause the air comes out of a turbo since its connected to the exhaust.... or the supercharger from heatsoak.... my goodness.

A supercharger at 10psi can be JUST as hot as a turbo at 10psi, assuming they are both at the same efficiency level. A turbo can be more effient at 10psi, and can blow out cooler air than a supercharger by the way.

They BOTH can DEFINITELY use an intercooler obviously. The big restriction on superchargers is the lack of a good intercooler system. LHT in Tampa fixed this for the Jackson guys by developing a good water-air unit..... this allowed guys to run more boost, and make VERY nice power numbers.

The air coming out of a turbo or supercharger can approach and exceed 200degrees.... again, this is from the physics of the air compressing... NOT from heatsoak or anything.

As for intercooled on low boost setups.... it DEFINITELY helps, even if you're only running 5psi. The cooler the charge temps, the more aggressive and safe your engine will/can run. Every bit helps, even at the lowest boost levels.... sure, a lot of guys "get away" with it... and even some oem's "Get away" with it.... but once these cars are upgraded with them, they always function better. The oems don't put them in there because they are detuned cars, and the turbos aren't high CFM units.... another thing to remember is that 10psi out of one turbo is NOT the same as 10psi out of another turbo of a different size/efficiency. We've got a car at the shop that made 350hp at only 8psi... the turbo is a NICE and very good turbo. With another car of mine, and a much smaller/less efficient turbo, it took 16psi to break 300whp... so its not about psi level... its about hp level desired, and the amount of CFM required to get the motor there...

Read some books or something.... don't listen to just everyone on the internet... a lot of people here don't have good information.

 

i feel like the fit's 5lb unit will be one of those that, 'gets away' with it, JDM chris has over 10k trouble free miles, and the jacksons have bullied theirs even more.


granted, i'm going for the whole shabang, and gettting the intercooler. aside from its cool looks, it should free up some hidden ponies and i agree with it being a more efficient approach, albeit not necessary.

plus, whatever small, heck miniscule even, issue that may arise with the lack of intercooler be it long term or not, one will not have to fret over it if you just buy the intercooler. (whats the price on this? have the jacksons not yet released it?)

 

since when does throwing hot air from a turbo into an engine without an intercooler not raise engine temps? OF COURSE IT DOES. if u dont intercool a turboed car ur gonna get mad detonation and melt the pistons and rings. no where did i say u shouldnt intercool a turbo. just the fact some oem turbo cars come without it because its unnecassary or tuned for it. ppl who supercharge dont regularly intercool the system because the blower isnt sitting on the exhaust manifold. yes reading some books might help a bit. go for it.

 

I have been into Honda's for along time, i have had a fairly nice EK for years, and as far as superchargers go everyone knows that Jackson Racing is both the most common and most cost effective for d,b,and k series engines. Now i have found that someone has spit from that facility and is now offering a new alternative to the roots style for Honda's. His name is Oscar Jackson Sr and im assuming he is the founder due to his bio.. now is new idea and bio..(i copied from site)

The new Rotrex supercharger combines the throttle response of the Roots supercharger with the compressor efficiency of a turbo, but without the lag. And the Rotrex does this without noise, without oil lines connected to the engine, and without the heat common in turbo applications. With boost capabilities of over 20psi we can address any special needs you might have in a custom application. And here is a list of the cars they will soon cater to..


2007-08 Honda Fit , 1.5L
2000-08 Honda S2000, 2.0L/ 2.2L
2006-08 Honda Civic SI, 2.0L
2002-06 Acura RSX Type-S, 2.0L
2002-05 Honda Civic SI, 2.0L
2005-07 Lotus Elise / Exige, 1.8L
1990-08 Mazda Miata, 1.6L/1.8L/2.0L

If ya need to see pics or read further..
Jackson Racing

 

good info! i think i might try the supercharge route on the fit. ive had 2 turbo cars and never have felt a superchraged car lol. as long as the price is right i will definately go s/c

 

How could you have missed the giant thread about Jackson's supercharger it's out there if you search.

 

wait..what? who was that directed at?

 

im sure it was to cmm

 

Keep reading...

Putting hotter air into the motor, like ComposiMo said, will make the engine run less safely and efficiently. Yes, you are right that you'll get detonation, but you won't melt anything with detonation. Detonation (pinging) is when the charge is too hot and ignites early, and you get two flame fronts that collide and make a 'pinging' noise. That breaks things in a mechanical way (cracked ring lands, broken rods, loss of power). Generally, your engine isn't going to run hotter with a condition like this, because the heat is still leaving out the exhaust ports, though not as efficiently as it should (since this indicates a lean condition). PREIGNITION is something different, that's when things start to melt. This is when the whole cylinder gets so hot that it's igniting the charge so early that all or most of the heat is absorbed by the cylinder walls, piston, and head. This is a self sustaining process, since it makes the chambers hotter, and in turn they set the next charge off early.

The exhaust manifold doesn't heat the turbo up when the engine is running, at least not to the extent that it's going to create insanely high intake temperatures. If you have ever seen a real turbo in person you might notice that it has oil and sometimes water lines running to the center section. This is one way the unit is kept cool. Also, if you consider the difference in heat transfer via conductin between the hot and cold side of the turbo vs all the air rushing through the other side...

Gases heating up under compression makes a much bigger difference in heat... I could go on about that for a while, but basically, pV=kT (pressure*volume = constant * temperature). The volume of the charge piping, intake manifold, intercooler etc is constant... so the only variables are T and P, so if you increase P you have to increase T to keep the equation balanced.

 

ok yes im sry the ringland will crack not melt, but u get the idea right? and yes turbos do still blow out hot air because they sit on the exhaust side of things so whether u like it or not it IS going to get heat soaked. even if its water or oil cooled, most ppl just delete the coolant passages anyway. and yes running a turbo on an engine while running will heat the engine up alot more than an engine without one. boost is pressure and the more pressure then the more heat.
i understand where u guys are coming from and neither of us know everything lol. originally i said that it would be okay to run no intercooler ONLY AT LOW PSI. u better at least have the right tune for it. that was my only argument. but to stay on the safe side and so most of u can sleep at night (lol) put an intercooler on. cheers sirs!

 

I've got a nooby question (sry dont know much about this stuff).

I've read above that it isnt 100% necessary, but does climate have a effect?

If u plan on running a S/C in a really hot climate where you could get temperatures as high as 45*C - 50*C (113*F -122*F) for a couple of months out of the year, would an intercooler be necessary ?

 

yes climate does have effect. Yes run a intercooler.

 

I have read quite a bit about super/turbo'ing on these forums. But i haven't seen a good answer to this. Is it safe to install a SC (the K.W. preferably) on the stock engine with no mods?

 

This is what it was built for. Built to work semlessly with the stock motor.

 

thank goodness someone said it.

chris, you probably know all of this, but you were arguing more than explaining. the air compresses to a higher pressure by the sc screws and because Pv=nRT, the pressure change causes the temperature to go up. the variables are volume, density and temperature... if you're going to stuff a lot of air into a small space, it's going to get hotter. it doesn't matter what you're stuffing it with, hot exhaust gases or not. boost raises intake air charge temp!

an intercooler is heavier, restrictive, and requires more plumbing. this is the reason cheaper lower boost kits don't have them... they are not cost efficient. you don't need one, but the higher the boost the higher temp increase your intake charge will see, so the higher the boost the more power an intercooler will get you. compared to other things, the intercooler is well worth the weight and restriction because it keeps the air charge dense and cool so you can have lots of fuel in it and make more power.

composimo with the knowledge drop.

 

so this net KW s/c out yet? what number is it getting if so?

 

jscooter, it not out yet, but were getting very close. KW is now saying we should have it by the end of April. I you want to see some numbers, they have a few dyno's posted here: Kraftwerks USA Dyno Results
EDIT
Sorry, man i didnt see your other post saying the site is blocked. Heres the numbers.
1st Dyno: Stock Fit w/ base kit - 121.3 hp, 103.9 lbs/ft
2nd Dyno: Header, cat-delete, exhaust, injector package - 144.3 hp, 122.7 lbs/ft
3rd dyno just shows a comparo of the first two...

 

i asked this in another thread is this 121+ the stock hp? or just 121 total with the kit on it.

 

these are the dyno #s, meaning a completely stock fit, with just the base SC kit, produces 121 HP. meaning total.