Please help-- 2008 FIT stalling/idling and vibrating--
#1
11-03-2014 | 04:13 AM
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From: seattle, wa
Please help-- 2008 FIT stalling/idling and vibrating--
Hi, I have a 2008 Fit (sport model). It has about 70k miles on it. About once a week, after I start it up, it will die on me. What I mean is this-- today I started it up, drove about two blocks, braked at a stop sign, and then when I put my foot on the gas, nothing happened and it died. It always happens after I come to a braking stop and it also always happens within just a few minutes of first starting it. It also vibrates a little bit. I turn it off, turn it back on and it starts up without a problem and then runs just fine for the rest of the day. This has been going on for almost six months now. It seemed to be worse in the colder months but I'm not sure.
I just got a brand new battery in so I know that isn't the problem. Any ideas or suggestions on what might be the underlying cause? I read somewhere that it might help to just "warm it up" each day before I drive it but I am looking to "fix" the problem and not just bypass it like that. Thanks a lot for any insight!
I just got a brand new battery in so I know that isn't the problem. Any ideas or suggestions on what might be the underlying cause? I read somewhere that it might help to just "warm it up" each day before I drive it but I am looking to "fix" the problem and not just bypass it like that. Thanks a lot for any insight!
#2
11-03-2014 | 12:32 PM
It needs a valve adjustment. The valves are out of spec and when it's cold, it's enough to stall. After it warms up, the valves are still out of spec, but it's not enough to stall anymore.
#3
11-03-2014 | 02:09 PM
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thank you so much doctordoom for the reply. is this something that can be done myself or is this something I should have a mechanic do? I'm not the most savy car person but know a few things. I don't have a sense of what a 'valve adjustment' entails. thanks for any more information-- really appreciated
#4
11-03-2014 | 02:18 PM
I've done it myself and I wouldn't say it's very difficult, but it's definitely a lot more extensive than changing your motor oil or rotating your tires, for example. The individual steps in the process aren't difficult (unscrew this, bolt that, torque this, etc.), but when you look at the whole process, it can take several hours. I can't tell you whether or not you should do it yourself really.
I say do some research about it and then decide for yourself if you want to try it out. Otherwise, have a mechanic do it for you. If you buy the Honda shop manual for your car, it outlines the entire procedure in detail so you'll have a complete understanding of what the job will require, as well as what additional tools you'll need to acquire (if any).
I say do some research about it and then decide for yourself if you want to try it out. Otherwise, have a mechanic do it for you. If you buy the Honda shop manual for your car, it outlines the entire procedure in detail so you'll have a complete understanding of what the job will require, as well as what additional tools you'll need to acquire (if any).
#5
11-03-2014 | 04:02 PM
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From: seattle, wa
Thanks for the help! It looks like it is a bit complicated for my skills. It also looks like if I mess it up then I could really mess my car up!
So next question-- is this something most mechanics can do or should I try to specifically take it to a Honda dealership?
Thanks again-- I can't stress how much help this is! I never would have figured this out on my own.
So next question-- is this something most mechanics can do or should I try to specifically take it to a Honda dealership?
Thanks again-- I can't stress how much help this is! I never would have figured this out on my own.
#6
11-04-2014 | 01:44 PM
Most mechanics can do this, since most (if not all Hondas) require periodic valve adjustments. You probably want a mechanic who will pay attention to details since each valve has to be adjusted fairly precisely. Look for an auto shop that is neat and clean/well-kept. That's usually a good indicator that someone cares about the work they put out.
#7
11-04-2014 | 02:08 PM
You're welcome, I'm glad to be of help.
From the symptoms you described, it sounds like a textbook case of a car needing a valve adjustment - I'm almost certain of it. Many others have had your same issue, myself included. My car had a rough idle on cold starts (1st start of the day) until it was warmed up (usually after a minute of idling or driving ~100 meters). I could hear it in the exhaust and could feel the car shaking, but mine never got bad enough to actually stall. Immediately after the valve adjustment, the engine ran smooth at initial start with no more shaking or sputtering exhaust.
Here are more threads addressing the same issue:
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/1st-...when-cold.html
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/1st-...t-started.html
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-...lling-out.html
Of course, nobody can guarantee that the valve adjustment is going to fix your specific issue - not even the mechanic. But it's definitely the most likely culprit and I'm almost certain it will solve your problem.
Please update this thread after you get it done. There is plenty of misguided information on car forums and your real, first-hand experience will be an extremely valuable contribution for other Fit owners.
From the symptoms you described, it sounds like a textbook case of a car needing a valve adjustment - I'm almost certain of it. Many others have had your same issue, myself included. My car had a rough idle on cold starts (1st start of the day) until it was warmed up (usually after a minute of idling or driving ~100 meters). I could hear it in the exhaust and could feel the car shaking, but mine never got bad enough to actually stall. Immediately after the valve adjustment, the engine ran smooth at initial start with no more shaking or sputtering exhaust.
Here are more threads addressing the same issue:
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/1st-...when-cold.html
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/1st-...t-started.html
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-...lling-out.html
Of course, nobody can guarantee that the valve adjustment is going to fix your specific issue - not even the mechanic. But it's definitely the most likely culprit and I'm almost certain it will solve your problem.
Please update this thread after you get it done. There is plenty of misguided information on car forums and your real, first-hand experience will be an extremely valuable contribution for other Fit owners.
Last edited by doctordoom; 11-04-2014 at 02:11 PM.
#8
11-05-2014 | 11:19 PM
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Ok... so I took it into a Honda dealership... and they told me that a valve adjustment isn't in order until 100k+ miles... and they didnt look at the valves. They kept it all day and were unable to make it stall again 
. I will look for another mechanic and try again...
. I will look for another mechanic and try again...
#9
11-06-2014 | 02:46 AM
In the links I posted, some people have had issues with the valves as early as ~30k miles.
I agree that you might want to bring it to an independent mechanic. Sometimes dealership mechanics or "service advisors" don't really know anything besides what they're told to regurgitate to customers. A knowledgeable independent mechanic might be a lot more helpful.
I agree that you might want to bring it to an independent mechanic. Sometimes dealership mechanics or "service advisors" don't really know anything besides what they're told to regurgitate to customers. A knowledgeable independent mechanic might be a lot more helpful.
#10
11-07-2014 | 12:41 PM
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Posts: 1,226
From: Canada
Doing a valve adjustment is a pretty involved procedure. I wouldn't attempt it unless you are well versed in mechanics or at least have access to a service manual. If you do attempt it, plan to work on the car for a good few hours (4 or 5) since you will be slow if it's the first time you attempt such a procedure.
Also, if you decide to attempt this: absolutely get the bent style feeler gauges. I looked all over and couldn't find them so I settled on a cheap set of straight ones and it made the job painstakingly difficult and I'm still not 100% confident i tôt the clearances right since it's near impossible to get straight feeler gauges in there.
Another thing to consider are coil packs. If you have never changed them, you are close to needing them changed. You can order the Hitachi ones from rockauto and change them yourself. It's very easy; even easier than doing spark plugs.
You might also try the idle relearn procedure. This would be necessary if you have modified the air intake or if the throttle body was cleaned recently. Search the forums for the idle relearn procedure. It's easy, you basically have to hold the engine at about 3k rpm until the radiator fan turns on and then let the car idle for 5 minutes (after the fan has turned off). This procedure is free so might as well try it and see if it solves your problem.
Good luck! PM me if you have questions about a valve adjustment or coil pack installation. I think a valve adjustment should run you between 200 and 400$, maybe more. I don't know because I did it myself.
Also, if you decide to attempt this: absolutely get the bent style feeler gauges. I looked all over and couldn't find them so I settled on a cheap set of straight ones and it made the job painstakingly difficult and I'm still not 100% confident i tôt the clearances right since it's near impossible to get straight feeler gauges in there.
Another thing to consider are coil packs. If you have never changed them, you are close to needing them changed. You can order the Hitachi ones from rockauto and change them yourself. It's very easy; even easier than doing spark plugs.
You might also try the idle relearn procedure. This would be necessary if you have modified the air intake or if the throttle body was cleaned recently. Search the forums for the idle relearn procedure. It's easy, you basically have to hold the engine at about 3k rpm until the radiator fan turns on and then let the car idle for 5 minutes (after the fan has turned off). This procedure is free so might as well try it and see if it solves your problem.
Good luck! PM me if you have questions about a valve adjustment or coil pack installation. I think a valve adjustment should run you between 200 and 400$, maybe more. I don't know because I did it myself.
#11
11-07-2014 | 12:44 PM
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From: Canada
I adjusted my valves at 55k miles and they were very much out of spec. The intake valves where all too loose and the exhaust valves where all too tight. I didn't notice a difference in performance afterward since my engine wasn't running poorly to begin with.
#12
11-12-2014 | 12:43 PM
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From: seattle, wa
Great-- thankyou SO much for the help guys-- so I just called around and a mechanic wants 300 dollars for a valve adjustment job-- that sounds about right?
thanks again, would be so screwed without you guys
thanks again, would be so screwed without you guys
#13
11-14-2014 | 01:00 AM
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From: Canada
While he's in there, ask him to check the state of the spark plugs. They say they are rated for 100k miles but that depends on many factors and I think that's a best case scenario. Spark plugs are 10$ each so it won't break the bank to get em changed if it helps the car run better.
I'd still give the idle learn procedure a try first. It might cure your problem.
#14
11-14-2014 | 01:03 AM
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Yes, 300$ sounds about right. It involves removing a bunch of stuff (air box, battery, intake manifold) and is pretty time consuming if you take the time to do it right.
While he's in there, ask him to check the state of the spark plugs. They say they are rated for 100k miles but that depends on many factors and I think that's a best case scenario. Spark plugs are 10$ each so it won't break the bank to get em changed if it helps the car run better.
I'd still give the idle learn procedure a try first. It might cure your problem.
While he's in there, ask him to check the state of the spark plugs. They say they are rated for 100k miles but that depends on many factors and I think that's a best case scenario. Spark plugs are 10$ each so it won't break the bank to get em changed if it helps the car run better.
I'd still give the idle learn procedure a try first. It might cure your problem.
Great thank you so much! One question, though-- would the idle relearn procedure be applicable for me? Is there a reason why my idle could have gotten messed up? I read that changing a battery can do this... but this problem was happening before I changed my battery. However, my previous battery died several times-- could this possibly screw up the idle? Any ideas on how this might be the cause?
Thanks-- I'll give it a shot this weekend before I take it in. Just trying to learn more about what the idle relearn procedure is.
Thanks again you guys have been extremely helpful!!!!
#15
11-14-2014 | 12:11 PM
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Posts: 1,226
From: Canada
Great thank you so much! One question, though-- would the idle relearn procedure be applicable for me? Is there a reason why my idle could have gotten messed up? I read that changing a battery can do this... but this problem was happening before I changed my battery. However, my previous battery died several times-- could this possibly screw up the idle? Any ideas on how this might be the cause?
Thanks-- I'll give it a shot this weekend before I take it in. Just trying to learn more about what the idle relearn procedure is.
Thanks again you guys have been extremely helpful!!!!
Thanks-- I'll give it a shot this weekend before I take it in. Just trying to learn more about what the idle relearn procedure is.
Thanks again you guys have been extremely helpful!!!!
The idle learn procedure is simple: simply run the engine in neutral with the hood popped. You can hold the engine at 3k RPMs until the radiator fan turns on. Then wait 'till the radiator fan turns off and let the car run at idle for 5 minutes. If the fan comes on during idle, do not count that time towards the five minutes. Shut off the engine and you are done. Apparently it can fix idle problems.
Another possibility is a vacuum leak but hopefully that would trigger the check engine light. That's why I like the other posters recommendation: out of spec valves could cause problems and will most certainly NOT trigger the check engine light.
I would still inspect the spark plugs and the coil packs. If you decided to replace a coil pack, I would replace them all. I recommend buying the hitachi coils from RockAuto Parts Catalog and doing it yourself. Replacing coils is very easy, even for someone with practically not knowledge of mechanics.
There is a sticky in the GD3 forum about hiccuping and hesitation as it relates to old/failing ignition coils. I'd check that out to see if certain symptoms are similar to your problem.
#16
11-14-2014 | 05:37 PM
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Posts: 382
From: Titusville, Fl
In my 45+ years of working on all types of vehicles and engines, I have to disagree about the valve adjustment. Even a "bent" valve will usually allow the engine to idle ok, with a slight miss. Instead of spending $300 for a valve job that may not be required, change the plugs and clean the throttle body/intake. Also, potentially the throttle position sensor could be worn...and if so, the point of wear is always just above idle position. I once performed an electronic tune-up on a FI Ford 3.0 engine...and changing out the TPS made such a huge difference. It would stumble just touching the gas pedal, and changing that out solved the problem. I cracked open the part afterwards and could see the wear near the idle position. Bottom line...start by changing the plugs (be sure to get the correct ones and gap them correctly) and clean the throttle body first. See what that does. Then watch some YouTube videos on how out of spec valves affect engine performance.
Also, when the engine is cold, the valves will have max clearance...are you hearing a lot of valve train noise? If no excessive noise, then they are either ok, or too little clearance (out of spec, i.e. too tight). Too tight can result in burned valves, but the engine would run no worse cold than hot.
I just changed plugs in a vehicle (Chrysler) at 80K miles...and every plug had excessive gap measurement and were ready to be replaced.
Also, when the engine is cold, the valves will have max clearance...are you hearing a lot of valve train noise? If no excessive noise, then they are either ok, or too little clearance (out of spec, i.e. too tight). Too tight can result in burned valves, but the engine would run no worse cold than hot.
I just changed plugs in a vehicle (Chrysler) at 80K miles...and every plug had excessive gap measurement and were ready to be replaced.
Last edited by Spacecoast; 11-14-2014 at 05:47 PM.
#17
11-14-2014 | 06:16 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 382
From: Titusville, Fl
However, I did find this quote in one of the attached links. And this guy seems to know what he's doing.
Fixed it....can't believe how great it runs now. Total cost of repairs: ZERO DOLLARS
Did more research. For many years, due to my work, I have been a member of IATN (International Automotive Technicians Network). Did research there and elsewhere. Decided that I would start with making sure the engine was sound. After all, if the computer system assumes a mechanically perfect (or nearly so) engine. I had two hours this evening before our son, wife and child would be over so I popped the engine open and took a look.
OMG! Every stinking valve on the engine was WAY out of spec. Never seen a car with 100% of the valves that far off.(and in my years of working in import shops I set a ton of valves). Looking back it seems all the intakes were way loose, all the exhausts were way tight. Its like the settings were reversed back at the factory when this thing was built. I set all the valves, stuck it back together and as soon as I hit the key that first time I knew we had it. The engine sounded like it had been replaced with a new one. I didn't realize how bad it had been running until I fixed it. The power had faded over the past year or two. It was so gradual it didn't strike you until you saw the sudden improvement. After the car had sat out in the cold for three or four hours I had the wife try it. She is car numb. If she notices anything, its severe. Again, as soon as she hit the key and put it in reverse she was amazed at the sound and feel. She said it felt like a different car, smoother and more powerful. That's it, she confirmed my feelings.
Did more research. For many years, due to my work, I have been a member of IATN (International Automotive Technicians Network). Did research there and elsewhere. Decided that I would start with making sure the engine was sound. After all, if the computer system assumes a mechanically perfect (or nearly so) engine. I had two hours this evening before our son, wife and child would be over so I popped the engine open and took a look.
OMG! Every stinking valve on the engine was WAY out of spec. Never seen a car with 100% of the valves that far off.(and in my years of working in import shops I set a ton of valves). Looking back it seems all the intakes were way loose, all the exhausts were way tight. Its like the settings were reversed back at the factory when this thing was built. I set all the valves, stuck it back together and as soon as I hit the key that first time I knew we had it. The engine sounded like it had been replaced with a new one. I didn't realize how bad it had been running until I fixed it. The power had faded over the past year or two. It was so gradual it didn't strike you until you saw the sudden improvement. After the car had sat out in the cold for three or four hours I had the wife try it. She is car numb. If she notices anything, its severe. Again, as soon as she hit the key and put it in reverse she was amazed at the sound and feel. She said it felt like a different car, smoother and more powerful. That's it, she confirmed my feelings.
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