engine oil additives
#1
02-18-2007, 01:57 AM
engine oil additives
what are your experiences with engine oil additives ??
today i went to the canadian international auto show and there was an exhibit where a company showcased their product which was an engine oil additive which claimed to reduce friction and increase engine life/power economy etc
as usual my bs flag went up but he did quite a convincing demonstration where he used this machine (i forgot the name) which spins this metal cylinder thing and grinds it against this other piece of metal which has weighs suspended on it. the more weights on the arm, the more pressure and thus friction right ??
without any lubricant the aparatus stopped due to friction after 4 weights and with amsoil 10w30 it stopped after 5 weights, after adding in just a few mililitres of his product the machine kept going until 8 weights were placed on the arm
now i'm thinking this is bs cuz i seriously doubt engine oil would only decrease the coefficient of friction by 20%, and i highly doubt that an additive can reduce friction by an additional 30%. but i aint no lubricatn specialist so i cant say for sure
the thing is i'm just wondering what your experience has been with engine oil additives and how they've worked out
today i went to the canadian international auto show and there was an exhibit where a company showcased their product which was an engine oil additive which claimed to reduce friction and increase engine life/power economy etc
as usual my bs flag went up but he did quite a convincing demonstration where he used this machine (i forgot the name) which spins this metal cylinder thing and grinds it against this other piece of metal which has weighs suspended on it. the more weights on the arm, the more pressure and thus friction right ??
without any lubricant the aparatus stopped due to friction after 4 weights and with amsoil 10w30 it stopped after 5 weights, after adding in just a few mililitres of his product the machine kept going until 8 weights were placed on the arm
now i'm thinking this is bs cuz i seriously doubt engine oil would only decrease the coefficient of friction by 20%, and i highly doubt that an additive can reduce friction by an additional 30%. but i aint no lubricatn specialist so i cant say for sure
the thing is i'm just wondering what your experience has been with engine oil additives and how they've worked out
#2
02-18-2007, 02:10 AM
just read up some tables of lubricated vs dry coefficients of friction between some metals
between steel and steel the dry vs lubed coefficient of friction was between 60-90 percent depending on the grade of teh steel, this is the same for other metals too which i would consider serious proof that this experiment was bs
i was sceptical at first but now im almost certain that something was wrong in the test
between steel and steel the dry vs lubed coefficient of friction was between 60-90 percent depending on the grade of teh steel, this is the same for other metals too which i would consider serious proof that this experiment was bs
i was sceptical at first but now im almost certain that something was wrong in the test
#3
02-18-2007, 02:28 AM
i'm also curious about the effectiveness of oil additives too. but with synthetic oil, its definitely not needed. even the manual states its not needed.
the only additive i MIGHT consider trying is LucasOil.
the only additive i MIGHT consider trying is LucasOil.
#4
02-18-2007, 08:51 AM
I've been very happy using BG MOA (Motor Oil Additive) over the years. It does a good job of removing deposits and keeping the engine clean too.
#5
02-18-2007, 09:25 AM
I've used Duralube, Lucas Oil Stabilizer, Molybdenum, Bardahl's, & Rislone. None of them works or at least, I've not noticed any sort of performance gain or oil life span extension of any kind. I've used them on a '90 Integra, '92 Jetta TD, '92 Previa, & '89 Accord. If anything, it just replaced the oil that I lost.
As for your ball bearing test, I first saw that test when Duralube first came out in an infomercial way back in the early 90s. I have to admit, I bought the product based on that test alone. Just as a thought, btw, if you've ever managed to examine the product such as Lucas Oil Stabilizer, pay attention to the thickness/viscosity of the oil at room temperature. That sucker is maple syrup thick, and it makes me wonder if it will get any thicker when exposed to cold temperatures (such as Canadian winters).
As for your ball bearing test, I first saw that test when Duralube first came out in an infomercial way back in the early 90s. I have to admit, I bought the product based on that test alone. Just as a thought, btw, if you've ever managed to examine the product such as Lucas Oil Stabilizer, pay attention to the thickness/viscosity of the oil at room temperature. That sucker is maple syrup thick, and it makes me wonder if it will get any thicker when exposed to cold temperatures (such as Canadian winters).
#6
02-18-2007, 02:01 PM
ALL A.P.I. rated motor oils are made with their own "secret" Extreme Pressure additives. Among these additives are chemicals like chlorine, heavy metals like zinc,and dry lubricant powders like molybdenum disulfide. The quality brands of motor oil have in them all of the extreme pressure additives that can stay in suspension and work through the usable life span of the oil.
In previous posts I have warned against the belief in lubricants and additives sold through "infomercials". Products like "Duralube", "Motor-UP" and the like are just more extreme pressure additive. In fact, I believe that Duralube is chlorine. This is not a case of "if a little is good, then more must be better".
Certain metals are known as "gliding metals". The two with the most "gliding" properties are copper and molybdenum. These metals have their own friction reducing ability. Bullets are commonly clad with copper, particularly high pressure/high velocity bullets, to reduce friction that produces heat that causes barrel deformation that reduces accuracy. Lead bullets clad with copper do not leave lead deposits in the rifling of the barrel to destroy accuracy and create more friction and more heat.
ALL compression and oil piston rings are coated with a thin (.010" thick) layer of molybdenum. The moly is so slippery and wear resistant that you can still see the crosshatch finish from the factory honing when new, in Honda engine cylinder liners, well maintained, with 300,000 miles on the engine. Pure molybdenum melts at 5760 deg. F., and is applied to the steel piston ring outer edge while molten. It literally melts the lower melting-point steel and the moly/steel molecules on the ring surface mix. Piston rings last a LONG time because of this "welded" thin coating of moly.
If any of you are machinists, I'm sure that you remember the last time you tried to machine anything out of molybdenum.
The main bearings that surround the journals of your crankshaft and the bearing materials in the crank and piston pin bores of your connecting rods are made of copper, or a composite of copper and other metals. These bearing shells resist friction and wear because they glide over the harder steel surfaces with the aid of oil. The wear resistant abilities of these bearing materials is dependent upon the presence of a quality oil. All the oil does is impose an extremely thin, slippery film between two metal surfaces that are moving. Bearing wear occurs when the oil loses its chemical composition due to age or chemical contamination (like water condensation or a coolant leak from a broken head gasket), or the oil becomes contaminated with solid particles. Both of these conditions will happen with low quality oil or with good quality oil that is used too long under harsh conditions like high/low operating temperatures and dusty air.
An example of a good sounding, but very bad in reality, idea for an oil additive to reduce friction, was engine oil with graphite in it. That stuff went off the market quickly, after it ruined thousands of oil filters and harmed the engines.
Again, ALL motor oils contain the right amount of the additives that marketers are trying to sell you MORE of that won't do you any good, unless you have back problems caused by a wallet that's too heavy.
And there you have "The Gospel According to St. Manxman".
In previous posts I have warned against the belief in lubricants and additives sold through "infomercials". Products like "Duralube", "Motor-UP" and the like are just more extreme pressure additive. In fact, I believe that Duralube is chlorine. This is not a case of "if a little is good, then more must be better".
Certain metals are known as "gliding metals". The two with the most "gliding" properties are copper and molybdenum. These metals have their own friction reducing ability. Bullets are commonly clad with copper, particularly high pressure/high velocity bullets, to reduce friction that produces heat that causes barrel deformation that reduces accuracy. Lead bullets clad with copper do not leave lead deposits in the rifling of the barrel to destroy accuracy and create more friction and more heat.
ALL compression and oil piston rings are coated with a thin (.010" thick) layer of molybdenum. The moly is so slippery and wear resistant that you can still see the crosshatch finish from the factory honing when new, in Honda engine cylinder liners, well maintained, with 300,000 miles on the engine. Pure molybdenum melts at 5760 deg. F., and is applied to the steel piston ring outer edge while molten. It literally melts the lower melting-point steel and the moly/steel molecules on the ring surface mix. Piston rings last a LONG time because of this "welded" thin coating of moly.
If any of you are machinists, I'm sure that you remember the last time you tried to machine anything out of molybdenum.
The main bearings that surround the journals of your crankshaft and the bearing materials in the crank and piston pin bores of your connecting rods are made of copper, or a composite of copper and other metals. These bearing shells resist friction and wear because they glide over the harder steel surfaces with the aid of oil. The wear resistant abilities of these bearing materials is dependent upon the presence of a quality oil. All the oil does is impose an extremely thin, slippery film between two metal surfaces that are moving. Bearing wear occurs when the oil loses its chemical composition due to age or chemical contamination (like water condensation or a coolant leak from a broken head gasket), or the oil becomes contaminated with solid particles. Both of these conditions will happen with low quality oil or with good quality oil that is used too long under harsh conditions like high/low operating temperatures and dusty air.
An example of a good sounding, but very bad in reality, idea for an oil additive to reduce friction, was engine oil with graphite in it. That stuff went off the market quickly, after it ruined thousands of oil filters and harmed the engines.
Again, ALL motor oils contain the right amount of the additives that marketers are trying to sell you MORE of that won't do you any good, unless you have back problems caused by a wallet that's too heavy.
And there you have "The Gospel According to St. Manxman".
Last edited by manxman; 02-18-2007 at 02:19 PM. Reason: add comment
#8
02-18-2007, 11:40 PM
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 1,920
I used to use the MOA from Justice Brothers on my 4Runner. Now with the Fit, i'll use straight Mobil 1 synthetic.
#9
02-19-2007, 01:29 AM
ALL A.P.I. rated motor oils are made with their own "secret" Extreme Pressure additives. Among these additives are chemicals like chlorine, heavy metals like zinc,and dry lubricant powders like molybdenum disulfide. The quality brands of motor oil have in them all of the extreme pressure additives that can stay in suspension and work through the usable life span of the oil.
In previous posts I have warned against the belief in lubricants and additives sold through "infomercials". Products like "Duralube", "Motor-UP" and the like are just more extreme pressure additive. In fact, I believe that Duralube is chlorine. This is not a case of "if a little is good, then more must be better".
Certain metals are known as "gliding metals". The two with the most "gliding" properties are copper and molybdenum. These metals have their own friction reducing ability. Bullets are commonly clad with copper, particularly high pressure/high velocity bullets, to reduce friction that produces heat that causes barrel deformation that reduces accuracy. Lead bullets clad with copper do not leave lead deposits in the rifling of the barrel to destroy accuracy and create more friction and more heat.
ALL compression and oil piston rings are coated with a thin (.010" thick) layer of molybdenum. The moly is so slippery and wear resistant that you can still see the crosshatch finish from the factory honing when new, in Honda engine cylinder liners, well maintained, with 300,000 miles on the engine. Pure molybdenum melts at 5760 deg. F., and is applied to the steel piston ring outer edge while molten. It literally melts the lower melting-point steel and the moly/steel molecules on the ring surface mix. Piston rings last a LONG time because of this "welded" thin coating of moly.
If any of you are machinists, I'm sure that you remember the last time you tried to machine anything out of molybdenum.
The main bearings that surround the journals of your crankshaft and the bearing materials in the crank and piston pin bores of your connecting rods are made of copper, or a composite of copper and other metals. These bearing shells resist friction and wear because they glide over the harder steel surfaces with the aid of oil. The wear resistant abilities of these bearing materials is dependent upon the presence of a quality oil. All the oil does is impose an extremely thin, slippery film between two metal surfaces that are moving. Bearing wear occurs when the oil loses its chemical composition due to age or chemical contamination (like water condensation or a coolant leak from a broken head gasket), or the oil becomes contaminated with solid particles. Both of these conditions will happen with low quality oil or with good quality oil that is used too long under harsh conditions like high/low operating temperatures and dusty air.
An example of a good sounding, but very bad in reality, idea for an oil additive to reduce friction, was engine oil with graphite in it. That stuff went off the market quickly, after it ruined thousands of oil filters and harmed the engines.
Again, ALL motor oils contain the right amount of the additives that marketers are trying to sell you MORE of that won't do you any good, unless you have back problems caused by a wallet that's too heavy.
And there you have "The Gospel According to St. Manxman".
In previous posts I have warned against the belief in lubricants and additives sold through "infomercials". Products like "Duralube", "Motor-UP" and the like are just more extreme pressure additive. In fact, I believe that Duralube is chlorine. This is not a case of "if a little is good, then more must be better".
Certain metals are known as "gliding metals". The two with the most "gliding" properties are copper and molybdenum. These metals have their own friction reducing ability. Bullets are commonly clad with copper, particularly high pressure/high velocity bullets, to reduce friction that produces heat that causes barrel deformation that reduces accuracy. Lead bullets clad with copper do not leave lead deposits in the rifling of the barrel to destroy accuracy and create more friction and more heat.
ALL compression and oil piston rings are coated with a thin (.010" thick) layer of molybdenum. The moly is so slippery and wear resistant that you can still see the crosshatch finish from the factory honing when new, in Honda engine cylinder liners, well maintained, with 300,000 miles on the engine. Pure molybdenum melts at 5760 deg. F., and is applied to the steel piston ring outer edge while molten. It literally melts the lower melting-point steel and the moly/steel molecules on the ring surface mix. Piston rings last a LONG time because of this "welded" thin coating of moly.
If any of you are machinists, I'm sure that you remember the last time you tried to machine anything out of molybdenum.
The main bearings that surround the journals of your crankshaft and the bearing materials in the crank and piston pin bores of your connecting rods are made of copper, or a composite of copper and other metals. These bearing shells resist friction and wear because they glide over the harder steel surfaces with the aid of oil. The wear resistant abilities of these bearing materials is dependent upon the presence of a quality oil. All the oil does is impose an extremely thin, slippery film between two metal surfaces that are moving. Bearing wear occurs when the oil loses its chemical composition due to age or chemical contamination (like water condensation or a coolant leak from a broken head gasket), or the oil becomes contaminated with solid particles. Both of these conditions will happen with low quality oil or with good quality oil that is used too long under harsh conditions like high/low operating temperatures and dusty air.
An example of a good sounding, but very bad in reality, idea for an oil additive to reduce friction, was engine oil with graphite in it. That stuff went off the market quickly, after it ruined thousands of oil filters and harmed the engines.
Again, ALL motor oils contain the right amount of the additives that marketers are trying to sell you MORE of that won't do you any good, unless you have back problems caused by a wallet that's too heavy.
And there you have "The Gospel According to St. Manxman".
And read your Manual. I don't read Fit manual, but i my EP3 manual it's saying "add additive for oil don't make better effect, better power or better life, just cost better $."
)I eu we have "the white oil", but not tested (a friend what test it) cost...
100$ / 5lthttp://www.spheretech-europe.com/doc...retech0w40.pdf
Huile blanche Spheretech
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