The Honda factory service manual for the Fit allows 2 bolts per side. It's there in black and white in the manual. I read it carefully. 'Nuff said.

 

Could you send me a copy of it then?

Did you put your grill or glovebox back in?

 

Be glad to. In fact, I can post a .jpg of the relevant manual page right here if you give me a day or two. There's no safety issue, BTW, with running two bolts because they are so robust -- almost hard to tell apart from the standard bolts and not at all like the aftermarket camber bolts you see:



I never took the glovebox out, but I've had the grille out for months and ran two autocrosses without it and nobody batted an eye. It only weighs ounces so it's not doing anything for my times. I just like the stealth look without it (see pic).

I also took the rear muffler off for those two events, which is legal and it trims 10 pounds.

 

Sorry... I'm having a shitty day, so if I come across as a dick I apologize.

I called up the dealer and asked what the manual said, so I've never seen the actual page myself. The JPG would be more than helpful.

The stealth look isn't that bad actually. Have you considered painting the center tab flat black to make it go away? Super quick and would be nice.

We were considering dropping the muffler for events too (Kate is running STS), but I'm thinking the noise would annoying at best. 10lbs is worth it though.

 

Yeah, that's not a bad idea and I've thought about it. But I think any paint I put on there might just get chipped by road debris and then look crummy. But I might try it.

I'll try to post that page tomorrow or the next day.

 

I've had good luck with the Krylon for plastics (the no primer stuff). Just scuff it really quickly, clean it with alcohol, and then shoot.

 

yay my bolts are in! now to get them installed... i don't need new nuts right? just the bolts?

do you have the pages of the manual for alignment? that would be helpful thanks
or is it the same as the online manual for the up to '05 fits?

 

No, you don't need new nuts. I can't say anything about pre-'05 Fits and I haven't looked at any online manual. But my printed manual doesn't say anything about how to align the car anyway. Basically my strategy was to install the bolts loosely, push in the strut as far as possible to obtain max negative camber, then tighten the bolts while I held the strut in that position. Then you have to get a wheel alignment done to get the camber as close as possible on each side and then set toe-in by adjusting the tie-rod ends. You'll be OK to drive the car a short distance to an alignment shop after installing the bolts, but I wouldn't take it on the freeway. You can also get the toe pretty close by eyeballing it and then drive it to a shop. You can also do the whole alignment yourself using the procedure I described here:

https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-...tml#post241035

 

Let's just say that, in some imaginary world, some poor Fit driver managed to get his or her car wedged equally in to some pie-shaped space. Both sides of the front end were pushed in equally. The dealer's body shop had to replace both front fenders and the hood, both struts, and had to un-tweak the front subframe horns. Potentially, the result of all that pushing and pulling could result in tolerance-stacking that gave GREAT camber numbers with all new stock parts.

To the degree that you can pick and choose one spindle over another to get the best results, why not choose a "sloppy" chassis to start with? If you know what the tolerances are, what's to keep someone from fudging a chassis to get what they wanted/needed? A clever frame rack technician could achieve almost whatever you wanted and it would be very difficult to detect.

HF

 

The frame and other components have to be within factory spec, so a "sloppy" chassis to the point of a camber advantage wouldn't be legal.

People used to use ratchet straps to pull the strut towers of their cars closer together, but a quick check with a tape measure vs. the manual with the factory measurements shows them to be illegal.

On top of that, changes in camber has effects on toe and other settings, so the car may have more camber, but could handle far worse than stock.

 

I wasn't saying to do something illegal, just that there's a range to all the specs in a given chassis, and it COULD be possible to have a chassis in range that was better than another that was also within range. If the hypothetical repair was done well and within spec, it might still be possible to provide a little better camber potential than it might have otherwise been. It's also possible that some untouched cars leave the factory that way... or at a significant disadvantage. Is it still against the rules to repair a disadvantaged car?

HF

 

I wasn't saying to do something illegal, just that there's a range to all the specs in a given chassis, and it COULD be possible to have a chassis in range that was better than another that was also within range. If the hypothetical repair was done well and within spec, it might still be possible to provide a little better camber potential than it might have otherwise been. It's also possible that some untouched cars leave the factory that way... or at a significant disadvantage. Is it still against the rules to repair a disadvantaged car?

HF

 

i don't think this arguement should go on any further...it's pointless and anyone that has the money to do it can go do it if they want, but i don't think any of us will be bending any frames cause we do 'love' our cars so much right?

 

And it's really not worth it when you consider that we are talking about a Fit. Take that money from the extensive "within spec" frame modification and buy a car that has a chance of winning the class.

 

i think the fit definitely has a chance of winning the class

 

Maybe locally in a weakly packed class, but at a larger event with more drivers, or a national level event, it doesn't stand a chance.

The Mazda3 and Mini have so many advantages, bring a Fit is like taking a knife to a gun fight.

I promise you, if it truly stands a chance, you will see one in the top 5 at Nationals this year. I can also promise you that no one is selling their Mazda or Mini for a fit.

 

Below is a .jpg image from the Honda factory repair manual for the Fit. The very first sentence says "one or both" of the smaller diameter strut bolts may be used to adjust camber. Unfortunately, the previous page in the manual gives the actual factory camber specs, and I didn't photograph that one.

For those who are interested, the next page in the manual describes the procedure to set toe. I won't include the image here to save bandwidth, but if you want to see it, here's a link:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2402/...e6893633_b.jpg

As for intentionally tweaking the frame to take advantage of the max negative factory camber specs, I guess I'd have to agree that's probably not legal. But if you get in an accident that produces said permanent changes to the frame, I don't think that's a problem. FWIW, when I did my alignment I attempted to lever the strut tops inward to get more camber, but it didn't seem to work. The inside of the bodywork where the strut tops sit seems to be cone-shaped, so it sorta wedges the struts in there and there was no ability to move them around.





Here's a link to a larger version of this image if you find it hard to read:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2347/...8350b6be_b.jpg

 

That is fantastic! Thanks!

 

I guess I'm a bit more optimistic. I think the Fit can be competitive, and win, regional events even against even Minis and Mazdas where the driving skill is more varied. In other words, a well-driven and well-prepped Fit ought to be able to hold its own. But I agree at Nationals it will probably be outgunned by other cars/drivers. It doesn't help at the moment that we don't yet have the aftermarket support that the Mini enjoys. Can you say adjustable shocks and swaybar? Sub-10-pound wheels?

 

I agree that parts availability would help, but there are issues like CG, rear suspension design, lack of camber in the front, wheel size, hp and weight - the other dominant cars in this class best the Fit in most, if not all of those areas.

I think it's a great local car, and I'm surprised every time I take it out on course, but I just can't see it going all the way...

Then again, no one thought the 89 civic could be beat in STS, and it was.