My 2015 Fit EX CVT had multiple CEL come on at 57,000 miles. Service diagnosed it as bad egr. A week later same code, same problem. Honda engineer first tried to blame it on non tier one gas. I don't know where anyone could buy gas that isn't tier one quality? They tested the fuel in my tank, found it to be top grade, tier one. So Honda put in new injectors. That was 37,500 miles ago. At first, it ran fine. Gradually the mpgs dropped below 40 and tbe engine started missing again. A few weeks ago, it threw a misfire code so the recommendation was a major tune. At 96,000 miles, I figured it was almost due, so I had the tune up done. A week later the car was back in the shop with the too lean code it had last Sept. Running too lean. Same issue again. I found out that a few months ago Honda issued a TSB for bad injectors. So this has been happening enough to generate a TSB. The shop diagnosed my engine problem as a bad MAF sensor, since my injectors had already been replaced. I replaced the MAF sensor. Drove 44 miles. Same code again. Running too lean. Honda engineer again tested the gas. They scoped the back sides of the valves anf found carbon build up. They cleaned up the carbon. It still running too lean. The engineer has concluded just replace injectors again? This time they want me to pay 30%. No logic as to why they think replacing the injectors again will fix it. Anyone out there have any experience with this? I think Honda knows they have a problem with the fuel delivery and carbon management with this Earth Dreams direct injection engine. But they just want to fix the symptoms, not figure out the cause and fix it. I need help from anyone who is dealing with this same issue.

 

Did they considered reloading the computer software, or even replacing computer itself? When you said "engineer", are you communicating with Honda or the dealer service adviser and or technicians? At 96K, are you out of warranty? I have not heard anyone in this forum having the same problem.

 

Too bad. It's a mess when you get into this type of diagnostic/failure to repair, cycle.

I can't really help here. But I'd say, I don't like the technician blaming the fuel.
And you would think, with good injectors and using Top Tier fuels your injectors should last more than 37,500 miles.

Are you past warranty? If the vehicle is still under warranty, I don't think you should pay 30% for new injectors.
If you've passed warranty? 30% is a good deal.

I think the Fit has the annoying within the gas tank fuel filter. Has anyone checked that? Something seems to be gumming up the works too quickly.

Which would mean, I think they could replace the injectors again, but in about 35,000 miles you could experience the same problem.

I agree that the injectors are probably the symptom. What is causing them to fail prematurely is the problem.

 

What fault code number would that be?

 

Code is PO171, it is Honda of America engineers that are involved. It is Honda engineers who keep testing the fuel and questioning the fuel. Trouble is the fuel never touches the back side of the valves. So I do not see the reasoning. The carbon builds up on them because the fuel does not reach them. Regarding Honda insisting I pay 30% for another set of injectors, I disagree because I am reasonably sure it is not the source of the problem. Regarding warranty, I am out of the warranty period. But this problem started prior to the manufacturers warranty expiration. So this is an unresolved warranty failure. The tech, service advisor and service manager and now the GM are squaring off vs the DM and Honda of America regarding their conclusion to repeat what they tried last time.

 

The code is P0171

 

They checked the ECM it is functioning okay. It is reading the problem accurately by what symptoms of fuel mixture / carbon mismanagement we see going on inside the engine. I just had a major tune up and valve adjustment 900 miles before it spit out the P0171 code again. The tech and service are stumped as to what the root problem is. Apparently, so is Honda America.

 

The engineers are all at Honda America. I believe it may have been my Fit that was one of the autos that was the basis for the TSB on the shoddy injectors. Unfortunately my problem goes deeper than just a bad lot of injectors.

 

This time they drained and dropped the gas tank, once again Honda engineers wanted assurance my tank was clean and running tier one gas. All passed inspection.

 

I'm assuming when they did this it included inspecting the fuel filter? BUT..I've gotten into trouble sometimes in life assuming.

You can be running top tier gas, and the tank can be clean but if the fuel filter is bad, it won't matter.

 

They checked the filter and put their own fuel in the tank to run it and it error coded the same. Also, the problem is that the process that is causing the trouble is taking place in the combustion chamber where the air to fuel mixture is off. Also the coked up valves and stopped up MAF SENSOR and injectors all appear to point to the PCV tube as the culprit. All the symptoms point to this part of the DI process. The Honda engineers have not arrived here yet. They are looking at outside factors first. I think this 2nd round of blame the fuel, inspect the service records, etc has run its course and now they have to look at their technology as the suspect. I hope they stand behind their engineering and product and offer a realistic and fair remedy soon.

 

Good Luck.
I'd be frustrated too, at the repeated attempt to blame fuel.
I was just hoping for the simplest, most obvious IMO possible solution. But as often happens in life...it's never that simple.
Good Luck again and keep us updated. I'm curious as to what solution finally gets applied, and whether it actually IS the solution.

 

The first set of injectors may have been the same as original. They may now have a revised part number. That's just a guess as to why they may think a new set will solve the issue.

I hope that it works and your troubles disappear!

The gas testing does make a bit of sense. Many people run the cheapest stuff they can find. Cheaper (non tier 1 fuels) can burn less efficiently which can lead to more vapor. That vapor, as you pointed out, can end up on the back side of the valve which is no longer "cleaned" by fuel. Running cheap gas in a DI car is not a good idea.

 

GAFIT could be onto something. There is a possibility your old fuel injectors were replaced with more of the same ones that had the TSB on them although that's a slim chance. Is the fuel pump putting out enough fuel pressure?

The carbon on the back of the valves is coming from the crankcase ventilation system. No fuel ever gets on the back of the valves to keep the deposits cleaned off. While direct injection is a wonderful tech the carbon build up due to it is a major drawback. Honda isn't the only one with this problem.

I'd be inclined to pony up for the offer of new injectors for 30%. Good luck I hope they get this sorted out for you. Please post the results when they get your Fit sorted out.

 

if you go that route, I would request the "bad injectors" back. They are legally required to give you the parts they replaced if you request them beforehand. Then you could compare part numbers from the physical injectors with the work order. Just a thought.

 

All the dashboard check engine lights came on in my 2015 fit. The car was losing power over 3500 rpm and not accelerating smoothly. The fuel mileage has gone from 30-40 mpg around town to 19-20mpg. I brought my car to my Honda dealer who said the P0171 code in my car meant the engine was running lean and that I needed to replace the fuel injectors to fix the problem. My car had 58,000 miles on it when I brought it in. I complained to Honda corporate that this was far too early to have to replace my fuel injectors and asked for help because the warranty ended at 36,000 miles. Honda corporate agreed to pay for a portion of the $1180.00 charge to replace the injectors. So I had the injectors replaced. The Honda dealer said they did find carbon buildup on the injectors and that was the problem with the acceleration and mpg loss. I have had the car back for a few days now and my gas mileage shot way up and the car is accelerating like new. I will use top tier gas and will run the car to it's redline once in a while to burn the carbon out. Will also at oil change time add fuel injector cleaner as recommended in these forums. I now have a one year or 12,000 mile warranty on the repain in which to decide whether to keep or trade in the car over concern that it might happen again in another 58,000 miles.

 

I'm confused. Isn't the powertrain warranty 5 years/60,000 miles? Why wouldn't this be under warranty?

 

I'm glad your Fit is up & running correctly now. My recommendation is to pour a bottle of Chevron Techron fuel system cleaner into the tank every 5,000 miles or so. It's cheap insurance to keep the carbon off the injectors.

 

Your story sounds so familiar. I don't know if you will have 58,000 miles before it happens again. In my case, I only had about 36,000 miles of use out of the second set of injectors before I was back in the same situation as before at 57,000 miles. After all the trouble shooting and process of elimination and investigation for a second go round in less than one year between full injector replacements, Honda America refused to concede that there might be an engineering/design problem going on. The Honda dealer addressed every one of their what ifs and they ruled out every other possible factor and basically it all came down to the cold hard fact that the Earth Dreams engine in my 2015 Fit has a serious defect. This engine does not have a PCV valve, it is just a tube. Pair that with the fact that there is no waste gate to trap the excess vapor and prevent it from coking up the valves, which is what it needs. Honda America would not hear it from me, or the dealership.... The Honda Engineer had one solution, put another set of injectors in it, and this time they charged me 30% of the cost and basically told me that the next issue is all mine to pay.... The Honda dealer was speechless. They knew, as well as I knew, this was just Honda kicking the can down the road. Honda America had no interest in getting to the cause and figuring out how to remedy the defect. All they wanted to do was treat the symptom again, for the third time. So I got screwed. I drive about 52K per year. The maintenance on that Fit was meticulous and documented. So, I had to fix it so it would run. Then I had to dump the car and take a loss on the trade in and get into something else that did not have the same design and history of DI carbon issues. So, now I hear that the Civic DI engines are coking up just like mine and the new recommendations from Honda America is a valve job every 30,000 miles, like that is normal. I have never had to have a valve job done on any vehicle I have ever owned and many were driven over 250K miles, with valves in good shape. So all the fuel savings go right into the cost of having to do a valve job every 30,000 miles which is preposterous.

 

I hope someone from Honda America reads this because they are still running and hiding from this DI carbon problem. I just drive too many miles so I was probably one of the very first customers to get screwed on their Earth Dreams experimental engine. Everyone else who bought 2015 and 2016 Earth Dreams engines are now experiencing what I dealt with back in September of 2016 with my 2015 Fit. They still do not have a remedy. Instead Honda is pushing it off on their customers to pony up the money for a valve job every 30,000 miles. This is not fixed by adding Techroline to the tank every 5000 miles. If you research how this DI engine handles the fuel, or mis-handles fuel; where fuel touches and where fuel never reaches, you will understand why it makes no difference regarding the carbon build up on the valves. Do not be fooled.