I can understand the difference in opinion. I sold cars for 5-6 years and everyone coming in always wants the top dollar for their trade and the most money off the sticker price and in some ways that is NOT the best way to make a deal.


Now, one item I should've noted. My buying process works for someone like me. Meaning, younger and need to finance without the best credit. My father would say what you did above and laugh at the way I explained everything. But as they say "different strokes for different folks".


Another thing that always needs to be mentioned which we may have touched on is the disgusting joke of a "dealer prep free" or a "doc fee" or a whatever they want to charge for jack shit fee. Its literally 100% crap and dealerships try to justify it in a number of ways by saying "its the cost of documention and drive program so that we can register/plate/inspect vehicles all in one shot". I remember being pissed about it being $149...and unfortunately this number is exploding because no one can stop it. I heard dealerships on the west coast, specifically Arizona where I have a friend that works for GM financial, $699 dealership prep/cleaning fee for every car and they will not budge on it.... Time for a new dealership! But if everyone in the state charges the same you are screwed!

 

No worries, I buy cars the same way Randy Moss used to pay his fines...straight cash homey. For me time is more of a premium up to a certain point than cost, thus the out the door price really comes in handy.

You are right about the most people part though. A lot of people trade in their old vehicle, and finance the rest. I about fell out of the chair when the dealer told me what they would offer me for my car. I just sold it myself and got an extra $2k. To me the crazy part was they probably could have made the $2k by cleaning it up a bit (I didn't even both to wash or vacuum it), and still given me a number I wanted. Luckily for them they had the car, trim, and color I wanted. They would also at least match the price I had gotten through another Costco affiliated dealer. That was good enough, but like you and the fees I would have walked if that wasn't the case. My wife at one point even commented to me, aren't they supposed to be nice to you.

 

I'm new on here and joined because my girlfriend just bought a Fit LX CVT and I've been learning a lot about her new car by reading stuff on here. I've owned nothing but new Hondas since 1975. I currently own a 2008 Civic Coupe.

The "Doc Fee" nonsense is actually a good example of why the OTD price IS important. It allows dealers to give a lower price quote and then, later, when the paperwork is drawn up, they add in the Doc Fee. If the price you were quoted didn't already include it, you're in for a surprise. The dealer just claims that it must be added to every sale. In reality, the "Doc Fee" is really just part of the price of the car. If you focus on the OTD price, it doesn't matter how much the Doc fee is. If you're paying 20k OTD, the car could be 19k and the Doc fee 1k or they could list the car price as 10k and 10k for the Doc fee - who cares? Bottom line is what matters.

When you're trying to get a price on a new car, dealers always want to include trade-in and financing in the same conversation. Why? . . . Because it's confusing, which makes it easier for them to get you to pay more. You're more likely to get a better deal if you separate car price, trade-in and financing into three different conversations. If you allow the dealer to include all of these factors in a single negotiation you're just making it easier for them to bamboozle you. It's easy to overlook the bottom line if you're wowed by them offering you a high price for your trade-in that you know is worth much less. In the car price conversation, if you focus on the OTD price there won't be any surprises later.

I agree that there are a lot of variables involved including regional differences, when you buy and differences in tax rates. So for comparing your deal to someone else's deal, the OTD price has it's limitations. But when you're making your deal, it clarifies the situation and will likely help you to get a better deal.

My girlfriend was very intimidated by the prospect of negotiating with car dealers. I explained the process I use but made her do most all the talking. Her OTD price on the LX CVT was $18,400. It's a base car with no factory options. There was, of course, a package of dealer installed stuff . . . window tinting, cargo tray, pinstripes and I forget what else.

I've seen several recommendations on here for using the TrueCar service. When you look at a site like that you have to figure out what their price includes and what it leaves out. In the case of TrueCar, the prices listed only include the cost of the car including factory options and the destination fee. The Doc fee and any other fees and taxes are not included. Looking at their site they claim the average TrueCar deal for this car is $17,072. When you figure it that way, in order to compare apples to apples, she paid $16,308. According to the National chart on their website, anything less than $16,446 is "exceptional" and only 5 buyers out of 66 paid $16,362 or less. So it looks like she did pretty well.

 

If anyone's interested, I started a new thread dedicated to new car purchase strategies: https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/3rd-...good-deal.html

It includes some of what I posted above but expands on it quite a bit. The intention is to go beyond "How Much Did You Pay?" type posts to discuss "How to Get a Good Deal". Hopefully, other members will post some of their successful strategies there too.

 

I paid 18,400 OTD in Texas for a 2018 Fit sport CVT. no trade ins, only tint as the add on. Tax here is 1.0625%, add maybe 1-200 for TL. How did I do?

 

Hard to say . . . because you say $18,400 OTD but the rest of your post indicates that you may not be aware of the meaning of OTD. OTD means total price "out the door", which includes everything, including all add ons, all other fees (including destination fee and the infamous "documentation fee") sales tax, tag and registration fees - everything. Nothing is added to an OTD price.

The tax figure you mentioned seemed awfully low, although I know that some states don't have a sales tax, so I looked it up. Sales tax in your area is 6.25%, not 1.0625%. So, yeah, you would multiply the sales price of the car times 1.0625 to get the after tax price but the tax itself is 6.25%.

That said, prices vary and the goal should always be to get the best price possible in your area at the time you purchase.

As I suggested above, one good way to compare is to go to the TrueCar site: https://www.truecar.com/#/

In order to compare apples to apples, keep in mind that the prices listed on TrueCar only include the cost of the car including factory options and the destination fee. The Doc fee and any other fees and sales taxes are not included. Looking at their site they claim the Market Average for this car is $18,667 or $19,821 if you got the Honda Sensing package. Those are national averages and they change as more sales of a particular model and trim combination are added to their database. On their (free) site they have a graph that shows the range of prices paid and the number of buyers who fall into each range. If you put your curser on each bar in the graph, it displays the info for that bar in the box on the left. So you can determine how many of those buyers paid more than you did and how many paid less. Currently, the national graph for the Sport CVT without Sensing lists data for 89 sales.

So take a look at your paperwork and make sure you compare apples to apples by comparing only the price of the car itself and the destination charge, no other fees, taxes, etc.

So, how did you do?

 

Whoops, yes I meant 6.25%, just typed in the wrong number after calculating. 18,400 is truly the out the door price. I just mentioned the rest of the variables so that others that are shopping will know what went into my OTD price. Before TTL, my "sale" price was approximately 17,200. 17200 + 6.25% tax + ~150 TL = 18400 in Texas.


I just ask how I did as I found it hard to find good examples of OTD prices in this forum, and just want some validation. It was much easier with more people/data points in the CivicX forums to find a good OTD price.

I also don't really trust TrueCar since I've always been able to get better prices than them, and a "car shopping tool" that conveniently gives prices and is paid by dealers sounds like an easy way to influence/price fix against buyers.

 

 

There's definitely no substitute for shopping around for the beat deal, which is why I posted this thread in hopes that everyone would share their strategies: https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/3rd-...good-deal.html If you have any buying tips please post them there.

Sounds like you did quite well. If the $17,200 includes a Doc Fee you should subtract that in order to compare your deal with those listed on TrueCar. Doc Fees seem to vary a lot from state to state. California even limits Doc Fees by law. I'm sure dealers have other ways of jacking up the price though. That's why using the OTD price is important if you're trying to compare deals. That is one of the limitations of using TrueCar data, you just have to make sure you're comparing apples to apples.

Yes, there are much fewer Fits sold than Civics and, ultimately, there is limited data on either one. TrueCar presumably only lists prices of transactions which are done through their service. From what I've read, it seems that dealerships pay them ~$300 per referral. But given that the range of prices is so wide, it doesn't seem like there is any price fixing going on. Looking at their chart for the Sport CVT without Sensing, for the 89 deals listed the prices paid range from $16,979 to $20,356, which is a huge difference. I'm sure a lot of that is due to the time of year that the sale was made. Those who buy when the car first hits the showroom for that model year, are going to pay more. As the model year goes on, prices drop. Plus, individual dealerships are under varying pressure to meet sales goals in order to get bonuses from manufacturers. The podcast / transcript posted in the thread referenced above is a fantastic inside look at what goes on in a dealership sales department. If you have the time, check it out.

Still, from what I've seen, TrueCar seems to have the best data available. Forum membership (for any type of vehicle) is tiny compared to the actual number of owners out there. And only a few forum members post info about what they paid in a thread like this. So having price data for 89 2018 Fit Sports with CVT and without Sensing is a pretty large number. You may be the only person here who has posted about that particular 2018 version, or perhaps there a couple of others, but nowhere near 89.

 

We paid sticker for our blue 2018 EX, but they gave us $3000 for our orange 2008 Sport with 190k. It was only worth about $1400 trade-in, so works out to about $1600 off the new car price.

They also knocked $250 off the GAP insurance & threw in all-weather mats... so that helped too!

 

I am in Plano Tx May I ask what dealership? My daughters 10 Sport just got totaled on 121.

Thanks,