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You are one of the very few here, in not the only one, that I see as who understands the DI system and somewhat knows about this problem, and why this is happening on DI gas engine but not on DI diesel.

And this problem is NOT a BS like some are saying. This has been happening on many DI gas engines, especially on Ford's EcoBoost DI engies. All that dirty oily fume is reintroduced back into to the intake system via PCV/EGR because crankcase is always at a positive pressure when engine is running. Thanks for your research about he Earth Dreams' improved EGR/PCV system.

Here is how I do intake cleaning on my other cars.

 

Hi guys
1st post... be easy on me
If there is anybody wondering about the reliability of this system... I woke up this morning to a dash full of warning lights, ended my day with my dealership informing me that my car was down for a week. A full set of injectors were on their way after they attempted to set the valve lash without any change to the ECM fault. As this just happened & I was called after the dealership was closed.
A little background, I 1st noticed surging & misses under load @ less than 5000km. Was told @ 1st service there was no problem that I should increase my revs to solve the perception of a problem (& yes @ 6000 RPM under full throttle the issue wasn't as noticeable (so much for fuel milage)). Closer to 10,000km I started noticing under no load situations surging & missing (very slight). Now just short of 14000km total failure.
The failure lite up VSA, Check Engine Light (ECM) & EPS. The only thing I can add right now is the technician said "Honda is having problems with these right now", & "they are trying to figure out how to fix the problem". Which I think is the most important thing I could add right now.

2015-EX/Manual (no external temp monitor)

cd

 

Yikes, that's not good. Please keep us updated on what the dealership finds. Best of luck to you. I've been keeping my cars for more than 10 years before getting something new, but not sure if I'll be able to do that with the Fit.

 

Diesels have always used direct injection, but they are not really applicable to gasoline situations.

 

I have come around on this after understanding it better more recently. I almost want to get a boroscope just to monitor it. Has anyone considered fitting a catch can???

 

So this might help?

 

our mini cooper had 80k on it and it was on its death bed due to this.

 

Has the problem been resolved ? I'm up in Canada & brought in the car for the christmas tree in my dash, which was caused by misfires. The dealer told me the injectors have to be replaced, that there's a Technical Service Bulletin to fix this. Looks like it's been out since June '16. 2015 Honda Fit TSBs (Technical Service Bulletins) | HondaProblems.com

 

Honda has a lot of homework left to do. My 2015 Fit has them stumped right now. At 57,000 miles, I was told the fix was to replace the egr. I paid $600 to replace it. The car failed on the drive home the same day I picked it up. The engineers then blamed it on the fuel quality. They took a fuel sample and found that I am running tier one fuel. Ultimately, Honda replaced the injectors. All that did was kick the can down the road. The problems returned 37,000 miles later. This time, the first diagnosis was replace the MAF sensor, which I paid for... I drove 44 miles and the same failure happened. So the car has been in the shop for 2 weeks, issues unresolved. The Honda engineers have tested the fuel, again... again found it is tier one quality. So all they can suggest is another set of injectors and that I pay 30%, for repair of a symptom! The shop manager is pushing back, refusing the directive. A week ago, the shop scoped the valves and found A lot of carbon build up, which has been removed. But the engine is still coding too lean. What makes this so aggravating is that the constant question about the fuel quality and if new injectors did not fix it at 57,000 why would the outcome be different at 94,000 miles? Also, the fuel never gets to wash off the back sides of the valves, so why keep questioning the fuel quality?

 

Nah, I am not going to buy more expensive fuel! If I have to pay 15, 20 or more cents per gallon
I could have gotten a bigger nicer gas hog and not lost a bit of economy.

Any problem with mystery lights the dealer will tell you "CARBON, buy better gas!" I may add some Marvel Mystery Oil (Here come the nay sayers) or other injector cleaner from time to time.

Honda needs to step up and own this problem. I will be trying my 6th dealer this week, we will
see how that goes. Along with posting here how about we beat on Honda with these problems?

 

FWIW
I use off brand gasoline for my Fit, BMW, and Porsche Turbo. I have been driving for over 50 years. I have never had any issues with fouling injectors or sticky or dirty valves using gasoline that is not a name brand. Some of you are convinced engine hesitation or less power is due to insufficient detergent in the gasoline and is willing to pay more for gasoline for assurance. Off brand and name brand gasoline have the same energy whether it has more or less detergent.

 

More expensive? Hardly.

I suggest y'all read the informative pages of this website

Home | Top Tier Gas
Why Top Tier Gas | Top Tier Gas
Deposit Control | Top Tier Gas
Licensed Brands | Top Tier Gas

 

The solution to this problem is to use dual injection systems, Direct and Port injection at the same time to keep efficency and valves clean.
Toyota, Suzuki, Volkswagen, Ford, to name a few, are doing this in several models.

 

Completely agree! Doesn't help those of us stuck with this first iteration of DI, but it is the solution going forward.

I have a Ford/Lincoln with DI and my model has all of the typical DI issues. Just like the Honda's will with enough miles. Honda was just late to the DI game.

Some improvements can definitely be made with better EGR systems. Wife has a '17 VW Golf and, supposedly, VW has made several improvements to the EGR system in '15+ models. So far the failure rate has been much less, but there are still some reported failures.

Problem with the dual fuel method is that you literally have double the amount of things that can break and cost the manufacture nearly double for the motors fueling needs. Not likely to see that technology in lower end models any time soon.

For whatever reason, the issues seem to happen much more frequently in the US and specifically with people who drive their vehicles easier and at lower speeds. Cars that see regular high speed use seem to have near zero failures reported. Possibly the extra heat over longer periods is doing a better job of cleaning the valves or the EGR systems are able to operate more efficiently. Not sure, but it's good enough reason to romp on the thing!

 

Are owners going to be obligated to clean intakes and carbon by spraying water into the engine like we did 30 years ago? Probably not...here's a discussion I found:

https://www.physicsforums.com/thread....793344/page-3

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Amen, brother! I do that periodically on all my cars. (Don't tell my wife that I flail her minivan, OK?)

 

I am going to tank your theory. I have had two new sets of injectors replaced in 24 months and 98000 miles of highway driving of my 2015 Fit EX CVT. Honda paid 100 % on the first set, 70% on the second. They just want to put a bandaid on the problem, not fix it. ZERO interest in fixing the source of the carbon problem. This is my first Honda. So disappointed in Honda America for not stepping up and fixing the problem.

 

I agree that it's a problem. Sadly, it's not solely a Honda issue. VW and BMW were the first adopters of DI and were the first to experience major problems. Ford, Kia, and Hyundai were the next adopters and next affected. Honda is just following in others footsteps.

The downsides to DI are much greater than the upsides to me unless you greatly value that extra 1 (one) mile per gallon.

Curious, what fuel are you using? Many problems are being faced by those not running top tier fuels. Which is why Honda is rightfully doing fuel tests. It is the first concern.

My Dad drives a car like he stole it and ran top tier fuel in his Kia with an early DI system and made it to almost 200,000 miles before trade in. I have a Ford with DI and only run premium Shell fuel. So far so good.

The better quality fuels do not do anything to clean the backsides of the valves, but in theory produce less vapor to get deposited.

 

Tier one gas used always. I even run techroline through it every 5K which is about 1x per mo. Trust me this issue is nothing Honda can pin on me. They basically think I drive too much,so this problem is reoccurring too often. LMAO. So thanks to Honda, I have no option but to dump the car.

 

They also don't discuss that by design ,, the valve seals don't stop all the oil, some oil does need to get in to the valve guide to lubricate the valve stem, it exits by being burnt through the engine.. On the intake valves, it can build up.

I wonder if adding water/methanol injection would help to reduce the problem? Use a very small amount of water (Not trying to cool a turbo here... ) to help keep the valve cooler and clean it off..

 

My Mazdaspeed6 had DI a decade ago and same thing as you, I drove it hard and had no issues in the 100K I owned it. Admittedly that isn't that long. My new Fit will only be the second DI car I've owned since that one and since I plan to keep it for a long time, am going to watch this carefully. I only use Shell gas, V-Power 91 in my current cars, but was going to use 87 in the Fit.