Parking the fit this morning and the car was rolling slightly backward, with the clutch fully engaged it was producing grinding noises trying to get into reverse. If the car is at a complete stop everything is fine.

Is this normal? With my BMW I can be rolling and grab whatever gear I want as long as the clutch is engaged.

Not sure if the clutch isn't engaging completely or if theirs some sort of lockout feature going on.

Thanks
Fizz

 

I believe this is normal on lots of manual transmission cars as the reverse gear has no synchronizers. Just make sure you are stopped before going in reverse. All is OK.

 

Makes sense, thanks!

 

No car I've ever owned has has a syncro on reverse.

The question isn't what's different with the Honda, it's what's different with BMW!

 

Reverse on this car is pretty rough indeed. If you have a hard time getting into reverse try putting it back in neutral, then letting out on the clutch, then going back into reverse.

Or shifting into First, then reverse.

 

From the manual: "NOTICE Do not shift to R before the vehicle comes to a
complete stop. Shifting to R before stopping can damage the transmission." p.325

But I also have a question about Reverse. I had to reverse past a deep rain gutter at the end of a driveway that I got stuck in. I tried letting the clutch out slowly as I usually do and it just made grinding sounds before it stalled. This happened twice. Finally I just revved it a little and dropped the clutch. It got me out of the gutter, but the car was jerking and grinding and just generally not happy with what happened. The thing is, I don't know how else I could have managed it; the rear wheels were in the gutter and going forward wasn't an option, so I had to just go backwards out of the driveway.

If you are ever reversing up a steep driveway, or in a situation like I described, what are the best practices to do it?? Reverse just seems like such a sensitive gear and I don't want to think I'm damaging things in situations that are pretty routine. Some rain gutters are deep, some driveways are steep, can the reverse gear not handle those types of everyday situations?! Do I need to avoid backing up in any situation other than a flat level place? Any advice is good advice! I don't want to drop the clutch like that again.

 

Used for decades. Its now a habit w/ me. Works every time.

Had a '67 MG Midget and 1st gear had no synchro's. Double clutching into first was a necessity.

 

The answer that the reverse gear doesn't have synchros is correct. It is a straight toothed gear that connects directly to the countershaft and the mainshaft to reverse the motion of the engine. When the wheels are turning, they are turning the countershaft even when in neutral; the clutch isn't connected to the countershaft so even with the clutch you can't disconnect the countershaft from the differential or the axles. Trying to connect the reverse idler gear to its corresponding gear on the countershaft while it spins will cause grinding/clashing of gears.

When having difficulty shifting, double declutching (pressing and releasing the clutch twice in neutral) has worked for me. Don't ask me to explain the physics of it but apparently it straightens out the synchros. I believe there is a "guard" in the transmission which will prevent you from going from 5th to reverse so I believe some drivers might trip this guard accidentally when trying to reverse which makes it temporarily impossible to move the stick in the reverse positions. I don't know how this would apply to a 6 speed.

For reversing in a steep hill when advancing is not an option, there is not much other choice than to shift in reverse, firmly engage the handbrake, release the foot brake, bring up the engine revs and slowly release the clutch. I can "feel" the car moving out of the grip of the handbrake at which point I release the brake. The jerking is most certainly because you didn't apply enough gas. It's ok to slip the clutch slightly so you don't spin the wheels or go flying backwards. Perhaps you released the handbrake a little late and hear the rear brakes grinding slightly as you started to reverse?

Doesn't the GK have some hill holder system that would help with this situation?

 

It wasn't that the car wanted to roll forwards down the driveway; it was that the wheels were stuck in a gutter. I didn't set the handbreak at all, which may be the problem. So you are saying to let the clutch out while revving into the grip of the handbreak, and then once your fully off of the clutch let the break off? Reverse doesn't really like to slip; it makes grinding sounds. Maybe I'm doing it all wrong?

It does have a hill holder that will stop you rolling forward/backward (respectively) on a hill, but I wasn't on a hill so it wouldn't have engaged.

 

[QUOTE=m_x;1276069So you are saying to let the clutch out while revving into the grip of the handbreak, and then once your fully off of the clutch let the break off? Reverse doesn't really like to slip; it makes grinding sounds. Maybe I'm doing it all wrong? [/QUOTE]

lol. No. What I meant was, as you are letting off the clutch and you feel it "engage" I remove the parking brake. Letting off the clutch completely in reverse is often much too fast to reverse safely and on a hill (or in a gutter) a full out clutch might cause you to spin your tyres. As soon as you feel that car start to move backwards you can disengage the parking brake.

I your situation however, it is not necessary to use the hand brake. The only goal of using the handbrake in the technique I described is to prevent the car from rolling forward when releasing the brake pedal to use the accelerator. Again, of reverse gear is rough, I might try to double declutch. Simply fully depress the clutch pedal twice while in neutral before attempting to shift. It might straighten out the synchros or shift forks? Honestly, if you are getting a grinding sound, I might take the car in to get checked. Here are some possible reasons for a sound:

-too little gas pedal input causing the car to shudder
-too sudden a release of the clutch pedal causing the tyres to spin and rattling the cabin
-running over some trash or debris in the gutter?
-having the car inadvertently inch forward while attempting to engage reverse gear

If it's none of the above, I'd take it to a dealer. The reverse gear should have a whine sound because it is straight toothed but it shouldn't make grinding noises.

 

Thanks for the advice! I didn't think about double clutching but I bet this would have taken care of it in my situation.

Also thanks again everyone else for the info, learned a lot from this thread!

 

I have to disagree and assume we aren't understanding each other. I don't believe there is anything wrong with my clutch or reverse gear that would warrant taking it to a dealer.

Imagine you are up against a bump or something that you need to reverse over. You can slip the clutch all you want but until you have enough power to push the car over the bump, you are going to stay still and I find that if you give too much gas while slipping in reverse, you will get a grinding sound because it isn't fully engaged. Once it is fully engaged, I don't grind, but when slipping the clutch if I give too much gas or do it too quickly it will grind a bit. Coming off the clutch too suddenly is a perfect explanation if you are moving and slowly gaining momentum, but if something else is preventing the car from moving at all (in my case I was stuck in a gutter), you're not gaining any momentum, so whatever the speed of the clutch release, you are engaging a stationary car and the R gear doesn't really seem to like that.

I don't think I am explaining it well.

 

Well there's no use arguing semantics and it's difficult to imagine exactly what you mean by "grind". To me, grinding occurs when clashing gears or shifting incorrectly. However, you talk about grinding and slipping the clutch. So that would imply that your clutch is making grinding sounds; mine doesn't (GD3). Whether you release the clutch suddenly or not now should have no impact on whether or not your reverse gear will grind, since before you even start releasing the clutch, the reverse gear should be fully locked in place.

I think we just have different ideas of what a "grinding" sound is. Maybe I call it squeaking

 

I had to just go out and drive it around haha. I think you're right that I didn't give it enough gas. And maybe grinding isn't the right word; maybe vibration is better. It's more physical than audible. The gutter I was stuck in is outside my girlfriend's house, so I'll try it again next time I'm there and give it a little more rev. Maybe I just did it poorly.

I really appreciate the advice. It seems like you know your stuff and I hope I didn't seem indignant.

 

If it's more of a shuddering then ya - maybe a touch more gas on the clutch release. It takes a little while to smooth out the amount you give when getting used to a new MT

 

With the clutch pedal on this car being so light, I can see how people might have problems like this.

 

I think from the Manual it might mean for Automatic Trannys? but either way prolly don't wanna go into reverse gear in a manual before stopping either way lol.

 

No, it is 100% referring to Manual Transmission Models. Page 325, Manual Transmission Models: Shifting -> side bar.

 

It is absolutely a bad thing to attempt to shift a manual car into reverse when the car is rolling. Even with the clutch to floor, you are attempting to interlock gears that are moving and I don't think the reverse gear is designed to allow that.

 

Yeah I mean I figured that, I just meant I was wondering if that section of the text was referring to the auto tranny. Either way bad for both lol