Gas Gauge/Range Way Off
#21
I guess need to talk to American Honda and see what they think
#22
Possible reasons for Honda to have pesimistic Fuel Guage Measurements
Here are some reasons why Honda may have intentionally been frugal in calibrating fuel gauge readings.
From AAA:
Potential Costly Repairs from Running on Empty
Running a vehicle extremely low on fuel may cause sediment in the bottom of the tank to clog the fuel pump pickup, the fuel filter or even the fuel injectors. In addition, when a minimum level of fuel is not maintained it could cause the electric fuel pump inside the tank to overheat. The cost to replace that one component alone can be $500 or more in parts and labor.
Dangers of Running Out of Gas
Running out of gas also can put the personal safety of a motorist and their passengers in jeopardy should the vehicle suddenly become immobilized on the roadway. “Power steering and brakes can be lost when the engine dies, and drivers can end up stranded in the middle of a busy highway without the ability to move their vehicle. Fortunately, out-of-gas situations are completely avoidable just by keeping an eye on the fuel gauge,” noted Nielsen.
From CONSUMER REPORTS:
Waiting until your gas tank is almost empty before a fill up can be pricey, could be dangerous and downright inconvenient. “While the cases are rare, there is real potential of a costly mechanical problem,” says Consumer Reports Auto Test Center shop supervisor and certified mechanic John Ibbotson.
The gasoline acts like a coolant for the electric fuel-pump motor, so when you run very low, this allows the pump to suck in air, which creates heat and can cause the fuel pump to wear prematurely and potentially fail. The repair could end up costing a couple hundred dollars to fix—much more than the $4.00/gallon fill up.
Also, if there is dirt in the fuel tank, it could lead to blocking the fuel filter; again, another expensive repair.
Another effect of driving on a low tank is the risk of getting stranded or even in an accident when the car suddenly stops running--you could be in the middle of a busy highway or on a deserted road.
Luckily, these scary scenarios are preventable. Here are some tips to keep in mind to avoid running out of gas.
Honda most probably is avoiding potential legal costs!!!
From AAA:
Potential Costly Repairs from Running on Empty
Running a vehicle extremely low on fuel may cause sediment in the bottom of the tank to clog the fuel pump pickup, the fuel filter or even the fuel injectors. In addition, when a minimum level of fuel is not maintained it could cause the electric fuel pump inside the tank to overheat. The cost to replace that one component alone can be $500 or more in parts and labor.
Dangers of Running Out of Gas
Running out of gas also can put the personal safety of a motorist and their passengers in jeopardy should the vehicle suddenly become immobilized on the roadway. “Power steering and brakes can be lost when the engine dies, and drivers can end up stranded in the middle of a busy highway without the ability to move their vehicle. Fortunately, out-of-gas situations are completely avoidable just by keeping an eye on the fuel gauge,” noted Nielsen.
From CONSUMER REPORTS:
Waiting until your gas tank is almost empty before a fill up can be pricey, could be dangerous and downright inconvenient. “While the cases are rare, there is real potential of a costly mechanical problem,” says Consumer Reports Auto Test Center shop supervisor and certified mechanic John Ibbotson.
The gasoline acts like a coolant for the electric fuel-pump motor, so when you run very low, this allows the pump to suck in air, which creates heat and can cause the fuel pump to wear prematurely and potentially fail. The repair could end up costing a couple hundred dollars to fix—much more than the $4.00/gallon fill up.
Also, if there is dirt in the fuel tank, it could lead to blocking the fuel filter; again, another expensive repair.
Another effect of driving on a low tank is the risk of getting stranded or even in an accident when the car suddenly stops running--you could be in the middle of a busy highway or on a deserted road.
Luckily, these scary scenarios are preventable. Here are some tips to keep in mind to avoid running out of gas.
- Keep your gas tank no less than ¼ full.
- Fill up before heading out on a long trip or to work as you could get stuck in traffic and have a longer ride than intended.
- Don’t rely on your car to tell you how many miles are left, as those range numbers can be deceiving and run down quickly, depending on how you drive.
- We all want to save money at the pump, but instead of driving miles away to the gas station, use online tools or even smart phone apps to find the cheapest gas near your house.
Honda most probably is avoiding potential legal costs!!!
Last edited by ROTTBOY; 07-23-2014 at 02:23 PM.
#23
This is exactly why people are seeing different numbers, just like you see your gauge tell you that your MPG is 42 but upon calculating it is only 36, for all it knows you hot rodded the thing the first 100 miles then drove very conservative. It is using the latest data to compute. I don't agree with the method as it seems measuring how much fuel ran through the line and divide miles by it seems simpler, perhaps in the I/O world that is a PITA.
#24
No fuel guages are perfect. Aircraft guages, which are built to a much higher standard, are only certified to be accurate when they read zero. (and you can verify that when things get quiet real fast) You just should never get that low. Anywhere near it, in fact. Look, and plan ahead.
#25
I've never owned a car with an accurate, linear fuel gauge. Most have indicated a bit less gas than I actually had at the low end and a bit more than I have at the high end.
The fuel sender is just a variable resistor connected either to a lever arm or to a helical rod that rotates as a float slides up and down it. A voltage is applied to the resistor and the resulting current is interpreted as the fuel level and displayed on a gauge. Since the tank is irregular in shape the reading is not linear.
Hooking this crude sender up to a fancy electronic display and range calculator does not make it more accurate. It just makes the inaccuracy more apparent.
BTW, fuel pumps are cooled by fuel that has been sucked up by the pump on its way to the engine. The pump will not overheat until the tank is empty and the pump becomes unprimed and overspeeds. A properly-designed tank includes a sump that makes sure that the pump has a good supply of fuel until the tank is truly empty. You don't want to approach this state, but it is safe to use all but the last gallon or even half-gallon.
The "dirt will get sucked in" argument isn't really valid because dirt is denser than gasoline and will end up in the bottom of the tank no matter how full the tank is. There is a sock filter over the pump and an in-line filter after the pump, both of which are usually good for the life of the car.
Would anyone be disappointed with a 15-gallon or bigger tank? I'd love to see fillups at 600-mile intervals!
The fuel sender is just a variable resistor connected either to a lever arm or to a helical rod that rotates as a float slides up and down it. A voltage is applied to the resistor and the resulting current is interpreted as the fuel level and displayed on a gauge. Since the tank is irregular in shape the reading is not linear.
Hooking this crude sender up to a fancy electronic display and range calculator does not make it more accurate. It just makes the inaccuracy more apparent.
BTW, fuel pumps are cooled by fuel that has been sucked up by the pump on its way to the engine. The pump will not overheat until the tank is empty and the pump becomes unprimed and overspeeds. A properly-designed tank includes a sump that makes sure that the pump has a good supply of fuel until the tank is truly empty. You don't want to approach this state, but it is safe to use all but the last gallon or even half-gallon.
The "dirt will get sucked in" argument isn't really valid because dirt is denser than gasoline and will end up in the bottom of the tank no matter how full the tank is. There is a sock filter over the pump and an in-line filter after the pump, both of which are usually good for the life of the car.
Would anyone be disappointed with a 15-gallon or bigger tank? I'd love to see fillups at 600-mile intervals!
Last edited by GeorgeL; 07-23-2014 at 03:57 PM.
#27
So to summarize: the general consensus seems to be that the Low Fuel Indicator showing up at 2.5 - 3 gallons fuel remaining is normal? Despite the owner's manual saying it should light up when 1.59 gallons is remaining?
Not trying to sound suspicious or anything just trying to figure out if I should be worried about a bad sensor or not.
Thanks guys!!
Not trying to sound suspicious or anything just trying to figure out if I should be worried about a bad sensor or not.
Thanks guys!!
Last edited by heltov.riddle; 07-23-2014 at 04:29 PM.
#28
Back in the Fuel Crisis era, I was driving a Datsun 510 which had a stock 12 gallon tank. At 25MPG that was good for about 250 miles with reserve. I added another tank of similar size so I was good for 550 miles with reserve. Both tanks filled through the stock fill port and, since gas attendants commonly pumped your gas at that time, it was great fun to watch their reaction as the pump reading passed 15 gallons. They would often look under the car to see if the gas was leaking out!
Unfortunately, adding fuel capacity isn't nearly as simple these days.
Unfortunately, adding fuel capacity isn't nearly as simple these days.
#29
I would agree to the extent that going to empty is not really a situation I want to be in anyways. I generally look to fill up again when the gauge hits a quarter tank or not too much under that.
Last edited by gunm; 07-23-2014 at 05:29 PM.
#30
I actually fill up just below a quarter tank. It's an old habit that was attached to the thought that going too low would suck up crud from the bottom of the tank. True or not, the habit stuck. Haven't seen a warning light in decades, lol.
#31
This proves that automakers no longer believe the average American consumer know how to do basic math, so they are trying predict the remaining range for them. Of course that is always wrong as driving condition varies highly(for example, I can coast down a hill at 200MPG). In order to prevent lawsuit, automakers have to be super conservative. Better save than sorry.
In my opinion, the fuel gauge should just show you exactly how many gallons are left, nothing more. A half intelligent driver can get a better range estimate based on that than any computer.
In my opinion, the fuel gauge should just show you exactly how many gallons are left, nothing more. A half intelligent driver can get a better range estimate based on that than any computer.
#32
be careful
I never let my tank get that low and if it does (girlfriend leaving no gas) I put in a cleaner to be safe. to be honest its a fail safe to keep you from running out of gas so you don't get stuck so technically you benefit. I also had to get gas and help girlfriend cause she ran out
#33
I'd be disappointing in the reduced fuel efficient that a larger tank would cause. As it is, I can't drive through an entire fuel tank without wanting a rest stop anyway, so I don't see any advantage that would outweigh the diminished fuel efficiency.
#34
Bad gauges are bad, mmmkay?
DTE statements are dangerous because they assume that you'll get the same mpg over your next 50 miles as you've gotten over the course of the measurement (this tank? since you reset something a few months ago?). Honda made a big mistake here by trying to have their cake and eat it, too: We'll give you all this information, but because someone, somewhere might screw up, we'll deliberately make the information wrong. To protect you. Because real information is dangerous. If you're stupid, which we're going to assume you are.
Speaking of that, have we really descended to the level of using AAA and CR as sources of practical advice? Instead of listing every horrific possible eventuality from running out of gas while crossing train tracks while hauling explosives during tornado season in dingo territory, how about just having an accurate gas gauge?
I do like the reference to watching the gauge (if it's accurate). But my Fit doesn't lose power steering with the engine off and has a few complete stops' worth of brake assist in the reservoir.
DTE statements are dangerous because they assume that you'll get the same mpg over your next 50 miles as you've gotten over the course of the measurement (this tank? since you reset something a few months ago?). Honda made a big mistake here by trying to have their cake and eat it, too: We'll give you all this information, but because someone, somewhere might screw up, we'll deliberately make the information wrong. To protect you. Because real information is dangerous. If you're stupid, which we're going to assume you are.
Speaking of that, have we really descended to the level of using AAA and CR as sources of practical advice? Instead of listing every horrific possible eventuality from running out of gas while crossing train tracks while hauling explosives during tornado season in dingo territory, how about just having an accurate gas gauge?
“Power steering and brakes can be lost when the engine dies, and drivers can end up stranded in the middle of a busy highway without the ability to move their vehicle. Fortunately, out-of-gas situations are completely avoidable just by keeping an eye on the fuel gauge,” noted Nielsen.
#35
I always noticed this on my 2005 Scion xB. It would turn on the "I need fuel now!" light long before the tank was empty. Usually the maximum amt of gas I could put in was 8.5-9 gallons. I think they just err on the side of caution.
#36
In a 2500 pound car this is less than 1.5% of the total vehicle weight. Even if weight were directly proportional to efficiency (and it isn't!) that would be a mileage hit of less than 0.4MPG.
It also means that, for everyday use, I would fill the tank every other week rather than every week. Half the hassle.
My '04 is the same. I treat the light as "You have 30 miles to get gas," not "I need fuel now!" The most fuel I ever put in was 11.5 gallons but a typical fillup (at about 300 miles) was around 10.2 gallons.
Last edited by GeorgeL; 07-24-2014 at 05:36 PM.
#37
My UltraGauge tells me actual fuel level, although I lied to it and told it the tank is 0.5 gallons smaller than it really is. So I'm working off the gas I'm willing to burn and have a half gallon reserve. Depending on where I am (hills, traffic, my schedule) I can plan accordingly.
#38
Makes me think of the honda odyssey where the low fuel light came on with like 4 gallons of "reserve" left.
I heard it was because mainly females drove it so they did that because of females not paying attention to dash lights..... now of course I'm sure that is a total myth, but it what was whispered in the service department about the overly large fuel reserve....
On my 96 civic which I owned for 10 years that fuel light came on when I had about a .5 gallons left, when I ran out on what I felt was fumes the most I can fill the tank was 10.8 gallons
I heard it was because mainly females drove it so they did that because of females not paying attention to dash lights..... now of course I'm sure that is a total myth, but it what was whispered in the service department about the overly large fuel reserve....
On my 96 civic which I owned for 10 years that fuel light came on when I had about a .5 gallons left, when I ran out on what I felt was fumes the most I can fill the tank was 10.8 gallons
#39
My UltraGauge tells me actual fuel level, although I lied to it and told it the tank is 0.5 gallons smaller than it really is. So I'm working off the gas I'm willing to burn and have a half gallon reserve. Depending on where I am (hills, traffic, my schedule) I can plan accordingly.
#40
I had the windshield mount on my last car (and have it on my wife's), but suction cups on windshields suck- or rather, don't. Hers fell and stays in place on the dash because the suction cup is stuck in the defrost vent. That holds it better than the windshield ever did!
For the Fit, I sent my UG back to get updated software and bought their "Horizontal Surface Mount" at the same time. It's on top of the steering column, offset to the left a bit to let me see the trip odometer. I dropped the cable down into the steering column shroud and it pops out right at the OBD connector. I'm very happy with that location.
My screen is set up the same way they show it on the UG homepage. The upper half of the screen shows instant mpg on the left and short trip mpg (since starting up) on the right. The lower left has coolant temp above fuel level, and the lower right has trip mpg (since reset when I filled up) above DTE. I don't use any other screens, and the car's display shows the trip mileage, reset at every fill.
For the Fit, I sent my UG back to get updated software and bought their "Horizontal Surface Mount" at the same time. It's on top of the steering column, offset to the left a bit to let me see the trip odometer. I dropped the cable down into the steering column shroud and it pops out right at the OBD connector. I'm very happy with that location.
My screen is set up the same way they show it on the UG homepage. The upper half of the screen shows instant mpg on the left and short trip mpg (since starting up) on the right. The lower left has coolant temp above fuel level, and the lower right has trip mpg (since reset when I filled up) above DTE. I don't use any other screens, and the car's display shows the trip mileage, reset at every fill.