new flywheel and check engine light
#81
#83
LoudBang's best of thread posts:
Reader's Digest version:
Twist, turn, obfuscate, all so you can "prove" your point, Loud?
And the conclusion is: too light a flywheel may cause misfire codes, exactly the response that was given on the first page before you went off on a flywheels can't cause this and besides Fits don't have one or need one binge...
Thanks for playing
Ok put on my professor's hat for a minute. Lets think about this logically for a minute.
Changing the clutch and flywheel (if done correctly) is exactly like changing your lugnuts it SHOULD have no effect on how the engine runs (except revving and slowing down quicker) there is no connection to anything else.
Changing the clutch and flywheel (if done correctly) is exactly like changing your lugnuts it SHOULD have no effect on how the engine runs (except revving and slowing down quicker) there is no connection to anything else.
The "torque converter assembly" provides the same function as a flywheel. Both for engaging the starter motor and providing rotational mass. The diagram at the link shows both the manual clutch and the torque converter.
And for those to want to say automatic transmissions have no flywheel I'll forgo the explanation why thats not correct by quoting FIT SHOP MANUAL pg 14-33 third sentence under Toirque Converter, Shafts, and Clutches:
"The entire torque converter assembly serves as a flywheel while transmitting power to the transmission mainshaft"
"The entire torque converter assembly serves as a flywheel while transmitting power to the transmission mainshaft"
Ignition timing is controlled by the camshaft position sensor. This is an electronic pick-up that sends a signal to the ECU corresponding to the camshaft position for the purpose of ignition timing. There is no "erratic" signal any more than there would be with a mechanical distributor unless your timing chain gears have stripped their keys.
The crankshaft position sensor was introduced with OBDII in order to sense "misfires." These are a function of the time it takes the crankshaft to turn. Small differences in partial rotation times are counted and stored. If these "erratic" counts exceed some threshold a misfire code is signalled. There may or may not be a misfire associated. If an actual misfire occurs, the rotation speed of the crankshaft is less for that part of the rotation.
The flywheel helps maintain a steady crank speed. Lessening its mass will result in more frequent differences in rotation resulting in flagging a misfire whether one has actually occurred or not.
The crankshaft position sensor was introduced with OBDII in order to sense "misfires." These are a function of the time it takes the crankshaft to turn. Small differences in partial rotation times are counted and stored. If these "erratic" counts exceed some threshold a misfire code is signalled. There may or may not be a misfire associated. If an actual misfire occurs, the rotation speed of the crankshaft is less for that part of the rotation.
The flywheel helps maintain a steady crank speed. Lessening its mass will result in more frequent differences in rotation resulting in flagging a misfire whether one has actually occurred or not.
item 3 in the illustration: TDC pulser. phhhtdtp
And the conclusion is: too light a flywheel may cause misfire codes, exactly the response that was given on the first page before you went off on a flywheels can't cause this and besides Fits don't have one or need one binge...
Thanks for playing
#85
The Other Side of the Coin
09 sport with k&n intake, axle back hks exhaust, little else. installed new clutch masters fx200 flywheel and clutch recently. check engine and limp mode with light load at cruising (65-70+mph). miss fire in all four cylinders. checked and adjusted valves and installed new (oem) plugs. no help. anyone?
#89
I hate to resurrect this thread, but saw something that might be useful to some members.
The same issue was happening on a CRZ whose owner installed a lighter flywheel (it was causing a "false misfire", Hondata just added a misfire code disable feature... unfortunately since the OP has a GE8 it won't help him much, but for the GD3 Flashpro owners who are having a similar problem with a lighter flywheel check if Hondata updated that feature as they have on the CRZ Flashpro.
Honda CRZ Forum: Honda CR-Z Hybrid Car Forums - View Single Post - ITEM9's Build Thread: Rotrex Supercharged PWP EX 6MT
hondata tells me there is a harmonic vibration at that rpm that sends a false misfire signal to the computer shutting the engine down. kinda learned to drive around it, engine just needs a slight load or no throttle at all. drove from Pittsburgh to mid ohio last wkend and only set it off once. hondata says there is NO damage being caused to the engine. the reflash for the 06-08 fits will not work on 09 and up fits. petition hondata to offer a reflash. they have one for the crz, odd.
The same issue was happening on a CRZ whose owner installed a lighter flywheel (it was causing a "false misfire", Hondata just added a misfire code disable feature... unfortunately since the OP has a GE8 it won't help him much, but for the GD3 Flashpro owners who are having a similar problem with a lighter flywheel check if Hondata updated that feature as they have on the CRZ Flashpro.
Honda CRZ Forum: Honda CR-Z Hybrid Car Forums - View Single Post - ITEM9's Build Thread: Rotrex Supercharged PWP EX 6MT
Originally Posted by ITEM9
Thank you Hondata!
I can finally put this false misfire situation behind me now... Miami-Homestead on 2/8/2014!
It turns out that the lighter weight of my HKS LA Clutch was the culprit of this misfire. In addition to the knock sensor, the CKP (Crankshaft Position) sensor can also detect misfires. It is accurate enough to read each impulse of each combustion event and it compares this information with a learned pattern to detect anomalies in the engine's operation. Apparently, a lightweight flywheel can change the engine harmonics enough to cause the ECU to think there is a misfire, when there actually is not... There is a CKP pattern clear and learn procedure that you can do with the HDS, which had I tried one time before and it did not work. The Honda tech that I was working with was pretty mediocre though and I wasn't sure if he did it right... Recently, I bought a knock-off HDS module (GNA600) and tired clearing the pattern WITHOUT doing a pattern learn. So far the car runs fine without it... No misfires yet, but they were so random and intermittent before, it's still kind of too early to tell. I'm going to test it further to see if that is another option to solve the false misfires...
For months I thought it was a real misfire... I tried pretty much everything you could think of to get it to stop misfiring without waiting for the Hondata update. Searching for vacuum leaks and changing plugs... It took two times on the dyno to figure out it wasn't a real misfire. We even dropped the transmission again to make sure the clutch was balanced... My heart was literally aching during this whole process... Happy to have this behind me now...
I can finally put this false misfire situation behind me now... Miami-Homestead on 2/8/2014!
It turns out that the lighter weight of my HKS LA Clutch was the culprit of this misfire. In addition to the knock sensor, the CKP (Crankshaft Position) sensor can also detect misfires. It is accurate enough to read each impulse of each combustion event and it compares this information with a learned pattern to detect anomalies in the engine's operation. Apparently, a lightweight flywheel can change the engine harmonics enough to cause the ECU to think there is a misfire, when there actually is not... There is a CKP pattern clear and learn procedure that you can do with the HDS, which had I tried one time before and it did not work. The Honda tech that I was working with was pretty mediocre though and I wasn't sure if he did it right... Recently, I bought a knock-off HDS module (GNA600) and tired clearing the pattern WITHOUT doing a pattern learn. So far the car runs fine without it... No misfires yet, but they were so random and intermittent before, it's still kind of too early to tell. I'm going to test it further to see if that is another option to solve the false misfires...
For months I thought it was a real misfire... I tried pretty much everything you could think of to get it to stop misfiring without waiting for the Hondata update. Searching for vacuum leaks and changing plugs... It took two times on the dyno to figure out it wasn't a real misfire. We even dropped the transmission again to make sure the clutch was balanced... My heart was literally aching during this whole process... Happy to have this behind me now...
#90
Originally Posted by ITEM9
There is a CKP pattern clear and learn procedure that you can do with the HDS, which had I tried one time before and it did not work. The Honda tech that I was working with was pretty mediocre though and I wasn't sure if he did it right... Recently, I bought a knock-off HDS module (GNA600) and tired clearing the pattern WITHOUT doing a pattern learn. So far the car runs fine without it... No misfires yet, but they were so random and intermittent before, it's still kind of too early to tell. I'm going to test it further to see if that is another option to solve the false misfires...
#92
From looking around on the net there's not a ton of info on the HDS. I saw some cool stuff you can do with the HIM HDS on Acurazine which translates to the copies as well. I didn't see anything regarding the limiter (most were running tuning software anyway so able to disable it there). Either way it'd be cool to program TPMS, keys, and all that stuff BESIDES all the diagnostic info.
It seems you would definitely be able to relearn the Crank Position Sensor with the tool, I would think it would stick as long as the harmonics from the flywheel were consistent and repeating, I don't see why they wouldn't be but someone correct me if this is wrong.
It seems you would definitely be able to relearn the Crank Position Sensor with the tool, I would think it would stick as long as the harmonics from the flywheel were consistent and repeating, I don't see why they wouldn't be but someone correct me if this is wrong.
#93
I just stumbled on this info. I am not running a lightend flywheel, but I am having a similar problem with my recently Sprintex supercharged Fit. I have seen P0300-P0304 misfire codes two times. But other than those the car runs great? So I have a clone HDS HIM ($150 on ebay). I believe it can do everything the GNA600 can ($$). So over the weekend I used it to relearn the idle and CKP functions. So far I have not had any more CELs.
#94
I just stumbled on this info. I am not running a lightend flywheel, but I am having a similar problem with my recently Sprintex supercharged Fit. I have seen P0300-P0304 misfire codes two times. But other than those the car runs great? So I have a clone HDS HIM ($150 on ebay). I believe it can do everything the GNA600 can ($$). So over the weekend I used it to relearn the idle and CKP functions. So far I have not had any more CELs.
I would be surprised if nobody tried CKP reset in the case of the flywheel CELs but who knows, it'd be an easy answer if not.
#95
Outstanding! Where did you pick up the clone HIM? I know I heard mumblings on the internet of China offerings in the $100-$150 range? How is the clone working out for you and how long have you had it? Would be great to have for idle relearn and ECU reset with a button press in addition to all the other functions.
I would be surprised if nobody tried CKP reset in the case of the flywheel CELs but who knows, it'd be an easy answer if not.
I would be surprised if nobody tried CKP reset in the case of the flywheel CELs but who knows, it'd be an easy answer if not.
Here is another cheaper option that looks to run the same software:
OBD Tuning HDS Cable OBD2 Diagnostic Cable for Honda | eBay
I would love to know if this one does the same thing. It would be much more compact.
#98
http://www.ebay.com/itm/K-TOOL-KTI-71990-TPMS-TIRE-POSITION-SENSOR-TOOL-NEW-/390722956269?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item5af8e72bed&vxp=mtrI found one used for $50
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