AC refrigerant - What type to buy?
#21
Anyone have anything to say about Enviro-Safe 134a replacement refrigerant?
A pro will NOT let that stuff go into their AC station that probably cost more than most cars that old are worth.
from the enviro safe website
Chemical Ingredients:
72.48% Propane
26.52% Butane
1% Dipentene
#22
It may work for the DIYers but you might never get a professional to deal with it because it's considered a contaminant in the system that was supposed to contain only pure HFC134a refrigerant: 1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane, Formula: CH2FCF3
A pro will NOT let that stuff go into their AC station that probably cost more than most cars that old are worth.
from the enviro safe website
Chemical Ingredients:
72.48% Propane
26.52% Butane
1% Dipentene
A pro will NOT let that stuff go into their AC station that probably cost more than most cars that old are worth.
from the enviro safe website
Chemical Ingredients:
72.48% Propane
26.52% Butane
1% Dipentene
I'm assuming that has something to do with why professionals don't use it – they don't want to get into legal trouble. DIYers won't be scrutinized by the epa as diligently.
Also, propane and butane are quite flammable. Not sure how easy it is to set them aflame should you get in a fender bender and cause the condensor to leak.. Now sure how long they will burn. Enviro safe recommends using about 1/2 I think it was, the amount of enviro-safe, as the amount of 134a that is used for the system. So in a Honda Fit that would be about 1/2 a pound. Which is about 1/2 the amount that is in a little portable bottle of propane sold for home use. But i'm imagining someone's car catching fire and a professional getting sued for the consequences, even it it wasn't actually the propane that was on fire. Even as a diyer I'd be rather leary about putting it into my AC system. I'm sticking with 134a.Something about the Enviro-safe company is making me feel uneasy.
Last edited by nomenclator; 09-07-2020 at 12:45 PM.
#23
ezone writes "There are different sniffers (leak detectors) for each of various types of gases.
Unless someone thought they could do better (non-standard refrigerants and blends), or unless an old R12 system has been converted to R134a, automotive refrigerants will be R12 (pre 1996), R134a (~1994-current) or R1234yf (~2014-current)....and Benz may be using CO2 now as well......... and each requires a dedicated sniffer (I think someone markets a dual purpose sniffer, but I don't know anything about the quality of it)
You can find sniffers for other purposes too, like stationary refrigeration (R22, R410a, etc) and combustible gases."
My sniffer does its "speedy-beep" thing for both R12 and R134a. It is a tif 5500. It also detects sodium hypochlorite bleach. If I recall correctly it detects other hydrocarbons such as gasoline and mineral spirits. I didn't buy it. I found it lying on the side of the road about 35 years ago – at a time when it was rather expensive and cheaper China-made alternatives were not yet available in the US.– so I felt myself rather fortunate to have acquired it without having to pay for it.
Unless someone thought they could do better (non-standard refrigerants and blends), or unless an old R12 system has been converted to R134a, automotive refrigerants will be R12 (pre 1996), R134a (~1994-current) or R1234yf (~2014-current)....and Benz may be using CO2 now as well......... and each requires a dedicated sniffer (I think someone markets a dual purpose sniffer, but I don't know anything about the quality of it)
You can find sniffers for other purposes too, like stationary refrigeration (R22, R410a, etc) and combustible gases."
My sniffer does its "speedy-beep" thing for both R12 and R134a. It is a tif 5500. It also detects sodium hypochlorite bleach. If I recall correctly it detects other hydrocarbons such as gasoline and mineral spirits. I didn't buy it. I found it lying on the side of the road about 35 years ago – at a time when it was rather expensive and cheaper China-made alternatives were not yet available in the US.– so I felt myself rather fortunate to have acquired it without having to pay for it.
Last edited by nomenclator; 09-07-2020 at 01:04 PM. Reason: typo
#24
EnviroSafe and others like it (Duracool, HC12, etc) are NOT illegal as an R-134 replacement. They are illegal as an R-12 replacement in the US ONLY in highway vehicles. It is very commonly used on farm and other off road vehicles here. I buy it at a local farm store. . The real question is why bother putting it in a R-134a system other than it is more efficient and runs cooler?. I have never installed it in R-134 vehicles but I have installed it in many, many older R-12 vehicles. Especially motor homes. There is a legal way to do this.
#25
EnviroSafe and others like it (Duracool, HC12, etc) are NOT illegal as an R-134 replacement. They are illegal as an R-12 replacement in the US ONLY in highway vehicles. It is very commonly used on farm and other off road vehicles here. I buy it at a local farm store. . The real question is why bother putting it in a R-134a system other than it is more efficient and runs cooler?. I have never installed it in R-134 vehicles but I have installed it in many, many older R-12 vehicles. Especially motor homes. There is a legal way to do this.
#26
l have had acceptable A/C with R-134 on 4 Fits (2009 - 2017) considering that there is only a 1.5 liter engine available to drive the AC. I did have to adjust the charge level down a little on the 2009 to get better cooling. I suggest that you find someone with a set of gauges and a thermometer and adjust the charge level slightly. You are going to have to do the same thing if you go to one of the frosty cool / duracool substitutes.
#27
l have had acceptable A/C with R-134 on 4 Fits (2009 - 2017) considering that there is only a 1.5 liter engine available to drive the AC. I did have to adjust the charge level down a little on the 2009 to get better cooling. I suggest that you find someone with a set of gauges and a thermometer and adjust the charge level slightly. You are going to have to do the same thing if you go to one of the frosty cool / duracool substitutes.
I'm still not happy with how cool the car gets and how long it takes to get there. I did see about 75° temp in shady spots inside the cabin, after the a-c was running for about 12 minutes. That was on a mostly sunny day, not a cloudless day. When I pressed the AC button to shut off the compressor the cabin got up to about 80° F within about 2 minutes. Very poor thermal insulation; lots of radiant heating through the windows.
Last edited by nomenclator; 09-09-2020 at 04:50 PM.
#28
Thanks for the info ezone. I did a little research myself, after asking the questions and, with the usual disclaimer "i am not a lawyer so I'm not responsible if you get into trouble as a result of believing me," from what I can figure out, yes enviro-safe refrigerant is an effective refrigerant; it is legal for EnviroSafe to tell you it is an effective substitute for 134a, however it is illegal to actually use it on systems that are designed to use 134a
I'm assuming that has something to do with why professionals don't use it – they don't want to get into legal trouble. DIYers won't be scrutinized by the epa as diligently.
Also, propane and butane are quite flammable. Not sure how easy it is to set them aflame should you get in a fender bender and cause the condensor to leak.. Now sure how long they will burn. Enviro safe recommends using about 1/2 I think it was, the amount of enviro-safe, as the amount of 134a that is used for the system. So in a Honda Fit that would be about 1/2 a pound. Which is about 1/2 the amount that is in a little portable bottle of propane sold for home use. But i'm imagining someone's car catching fire and a professional getting sued for the consequences, even it it wasn't actually the propane that was on fire. Even as a diyer I'd be rather leary about putting it into my AC system. I'm sticking with 134a.Something about the Enviro-safe company is making me feel uneasy.
I'm assuming that has something to do with why professionals don't use it – they don't want to get into legal trouble. DIYers won't be scrutinized by the epa as diligently.
Also, propane and butane are quite flammable. Not sure how easy it is to set them aflame should you get in a fender bender and cause the condensor to leak.. Now sure how long they will burn. Enviro safe recommends using about 1/2 I think it was, the amount of enviro-safe, as the amount of 134a that is used for the system. So in a Honda Fit that would be about 1/2 a pound. Which is about 1/2 the amount that is in a little portable bottle of propane sold for home use. But i'm imagining someone's car catching fire and a professional getting sued for the consequences, even it it wasn't actually the propane that was on fire. Even as a diyer I'd be rather leary about putting it into my AC system. I'm sticking with 134a.Something about the Enviro-safe company is making me feel uneasy.
#29
Why in the world would anyone (pro or DIY'er) want to put "Enviro-Safe" flammable refrigerant into a system designed for R134a when you can buy R134a all day long across the nation at Walmart for under five bucks a can and most cars use less than two cans? Beats me. Maybe those folks like taking chances...?
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