Whether you're shopping or not, you're probably getting offers for new Fits that talk about payments but not actual purchase prices.

Avoid the game, ask for the actual price with all dealer fees and local taxes detailed.

If you base your purchase on a monthly payment you will overpay by thousands.

Here's an example:

I played along and responded:

The $205 amount they quoted @ 0.9% over 60 months is equivalent to $12,022 financed. With this and my trade they'd have over $19,000 of my money for a '13 Base Fit.

Don't play that game.

If you're curious how much you paid, here's an excel sheet I did (download or use online "edit in browser" if you don't have excel). It's a simple formula using the "present value" function if you want to diy.

The dealer responded:

I countered:


Dealer's response:

While $14,8 sounds kinda close, it's miles away based on the "+++" and the payment amount he's talking.

$290/month is equal to $17,008 financed. Taxes and fees should not be over $2000 (they're closer to $1000) so the actual offer is $15,800 for a 2013 Base Fit.

Don't play the payment game. Talk in actual amounts. Yeah you need to know the payment to know if you can afford it (or better yet, pay cash). But not when you're negotiating a price.

Here's the end of story (not bothering with them any more. we'll see if the long holiday weekend changes their tune, but with these tactics I wouldn't enter serious negotiations with them...)

 

Good post and very true. Many people get screwed out of money with this tactic.

 

The 1st Honda dealership I went to to purchase my '12 Fit played this game with me despite the fact that I told I already had my own financing. I was furious when they came back with a monthly payment scratched on a piece of paper.

I guess some sales people just can't help themselves with that tactic or they are told to do so.

 

See, I didn't get to play this game at all. I bought mine after the tsunami and wanted a white, base 5mt.... There was one on the east coast and I payed sticker+tax and title on it. No BS fees or anything.

 

Good credit score = Power to make the number whatever you want basically I love buying cars they get so damn angry you can see the stream coming out there salesmen ears

 

How about the DOC fees
I have see them from $99.00-$599.00
Is this negotiable at all?

 

You can always ask. I suspect most dealers wouldn't budge on it (or, if they do, they'll compensate by raising their prices by an equal amount). I think you'd have more luck by asking about what it is up front and mentally adjusting your offers accordingly.

You should perhaps take a bit of care to see what is included in the documentation fee—in particular, does it cover just the document preparation, or does it also include the government fees that go with the paperwork? I think usually it covers both the preparation and the government fees, but I wouldn't bet on it being universally true (and I also might well be mistaken in my thinking).

 

It costs them just as much to go through the process of selling you a $10k new car as it does to sell you a $100k new car. Go after them on the price of the car, not on the fact that they have people in the office, parts, service and recon departments all doing work to get you out the door in your new car.

 

doc fees are just "additional dealer markup." Many states cap these at a modest amount. NY limits them to $75.

But yeah, ask them before negotiating on a car price what their dealer fees are. Subtract these from the amount you're willing to pay on the negotiated purchase price price up front and just add them back.

It's not fair to have an agreed upon price and then have them tack a half grand in profit on the back end.

If you feel bad about not paying the doc fee, why are you bothering to negotiate a price at all? Just pay whatever they ask; they have to pay the salespeople too.

They created the game, perpetuate it, and use tricks to obscure it.

My purchase here in GA I had an agreed upon price through Costco. I was happy with the amount and didn't feel the need to negotiate further. When they drew up the sales contract it had an additional $600 tacked on. "Oh we have to charge that." I walked. They called me before I got home and reduced the price by $600.

 

I tried this a little bit and got a small reaction, maybe in can get more. Thanks

 

Yes and no. If a dealer charges one person a fee they must by law charge everyone the dealer fee.

If you are a tough negotiator you can get them to reduce the price of the car by the amount of the dealer fee. You are still charged the fee but it is subtracted from the selling price. So you are being charged the fee on paper, but not paying it.

The dealer fee is regulated by some states, if the dealer will not budge go to another state and buy the car!!

If there is a popular car that the dealer cannot keep in stock, then you are stuck paying, unless you go to another state.

They use to rip us off with rust proofing and paint sealant, now it is dealer fees.
JIm

Average Dealer Documentation Fees by State

 

Here, have a car. Oh, you wanted a 20 day plate and an inspection sticker? Sorry, those don't come for free. Walk over to the DMV and register it yourself. And you can fill out the title app too, if you can find one.

The price of the car and the price of all the other things are separate, and should be. The car is a mass produced commodity that anyone can sell you, but a tech with a state inspection license needs to get paid to do the SI no matter who owns the car. He isn't getting involved in a bidding war with another dealership to sell a car. Remember what you used to get with an airline ticket back when they were expensive? Then we used the internet to drive prices down. Eventually the airlines said "okay, here's your cheap seat- but food, headphones and luggage are extra. Happy?"

Now instead of tricking you into buying rustproofing, dealers are saying "This is what it costs me to sell you any car at all. Now let's talk about the price of the car itself." It's more level and honest. No, they're not going to flood the radio with what their charges are, but that's not what advertising is for and you shouldn't expect them to.

Call around and find a dealer that doesn't have separate fees (that is, one who pretends that all of its overhead is "free"). Tell them what your local dealer (the one with the fees) is quoting you and ask them if they'll match it. If they don't actually laugh at you, buy it from them. If you don't want to buy it from them but still want to buy it from the first store, do it and don't whine that they aren't the store an hour away.

 

I think you're confusing Dealer Fees, the so called "documentation fees," with actual Tax, Tag and Title fees charged by the state.

It doesn't cost them $600 to mail the paperwork to register a car. Actual registration fees and taxes are separate from this.

They know their overhead and should consider this when negotiating a selling price, not adding half a grand after you have ended negotiations and agreed on a purchase price. If you haven't bought a car in the past 15 years you might not be aware of it. They are counting on this so you don't try to include this in your negotiations. This is deceptive.

If you fall prey to this, just leave: your feet are your best negotiating tool.

 

Be happy to and save $600. It's not complicated.


Those items are optional and not required to buy the seat. Any airport fees, taxes, etc are estimated up front on any website you visit. That's not to say these add-ons aren't deceptive: they are.

They've gone beyond rustproofing. Now it's extended warranties, gap insurance, interest rates, service contracts, and document fees.

All dealers fees in GA are different. They range from a zero to $900. The more honest dealers are including their overhead in the sales price they agree to. The less honest ones are tacking a fee on the end and way overcharging Fit buyers.

 

The last time I had a dealer try DOC fees on closing, I simply said " I do not pay added on doc fees or advertising fees". I was told that they are required. I walked and by the time I got home there was a message on my phone that they would drop them. I let him wait 4 days and in the mean time bought an identical car at another dealership. After 4 days I called the first dealer back and told him I bought a new car at a competing dealer without doc fees. Here you pay sales tax at the dealership and get a free 30 day cardboard plate. Registrations and licenses are done at the BMV. They only documentation the do is write an expiration date on the cardboard plate, and hand you the manufacturer Certificate of Origin, and a sales receipt showing the sales tax paid just like the one you get a the drive-thru at McDonalds.

You then have 30 days to show up at any BMV in the state for registration and plates.

 

Anytime I go to buy a car I always tell them I'm paying cash for the car before hard to avoid the payment game. When I bought my fit recently every dealer I went to asked what my monthly payment budget was. I did end up paying cash anyway but at the time was on the fence if I was going to finance and still always told them I was paying cash. You can always finance after the car price is finalized.

 

Telling them you'll pay cash could work against you. They make a lot of money selling financing, so just say I'll finance with you if the rate is competitive and negotiate a price for the car. They can't change the sales contract later if you pay cash or finance elsewhere.

Either way you shouldn't talk in terms of a monthly payment. It will only obscure how much you're actually paying for the car.

 

I don't think they really care. The last 2 cars I bought, each dealer didn't care if it was cash or financing. I was also clear that I don't care about the monthly payment, just the total price out the door.