I know there's a lot of threads on this, but I couldn't find one that specifically answers my questions....

1) I just bought a 09 Sport with 100k miles. There is a noticeable surge/lurch when shifting from 1st to 2nd. Other times, the car seems to get a little "confused" about the gearing, but only at lower speeds requiring 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. Anyone else have this issue and find a resolution?

2) I'd like to replace the ATF. I'm thinking DW1, MaxLife, or Amsoil. Question is, what's the best way to do near full fluid replacement. I'd rather not do 3+ drain and fills (more effort and money). Has anyone figured out a way to maybe pump more fluid out via the dip stick. Or maybe tilt the car one direction or another to train more ATF?

overall, love the car, especially the steering and handling, however the transmission shifts a less smooth and confident then some of my other cars (Ridgeline and Volvo S40).

Thanks everyone!

 

1) the transmission is very busy. It locks the torque converter in all gears and has 5 gears, so this is 10 states (i.e. 2nd locked, 2nd unlocked...). So it will seem to be confused, but really it knows what it's doing. It also has grade logic and frequent brake/gas logic (for the twisties) to avoid frequent shifts. Lazy driving around town and it will work the gears and torque converter lock.

Decelerating it shifts from 3rd to 1st (I think) which does cause some surge when coming to a complete stop. While accelerating I haven't noticed surges (it seems pretty smooth).

Changing ATF will smooth things out though.

2) The problem is the fluid is trapped in the torque converter and there are only small passages from this to the drain. There's no practical way of draining it all short of tearing it down. People have disconnected the ATF cooling lines to the radiator and used these to drain and siphon new ATF. Have 6 quarts or more handy. I have no idea how you regulate ATF level doing this (I don't recommend it). Honda emphatically requires Honda ATF. I don't think I'd go off-brand. Honda DW-1 works better than the older fluid in your car and is compatible.

Your S40 and Ridgeline are heavier, have larger engines, and less busy transmissions...

 

Simple to replace nearly 6quarts of DW1 ATF via the transmission coolant line.
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/2nd-...ill-flush.html

Buy a case of DW1 and do another 6 quart replacement in 10-20K miles to "clean" the transmission if you still see the same symptoms. I would replace the transmission filter too.

FYI, use Google to find what you want in this forum
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i had the lurch from 1st to 2nd. did one drain and fill from dealership and that removed it. nice and smooth now.

 

Only way to get a almost 100% is by doing the 3 drain approach. Even that would only get you at a 90% of the old ATF removed.

 

Did the "flush" above this weekend. Car has 102K miles. Fluid was old but full.

Drained 3+ qrts, refilled. Then used the "cold" line out of the transmission cooler to train the rest. The "cold" line was pretty easy to get to, plus it gives you more hose hanging down below which is helpful.

I did the "noob" drain by myself. FYI, it takes about 9 seconds for the engine to pump out 1 qrt. By the 3rd quart (6th quart if you include the gravity drain directly from the trans), I could see that the color was less brown. It was a mix of old and new fluid so I'm pretty sure I got just about all of the old atf out of there.

After buttoning everything up and getting up to operating temp I checked the level (manual says get to op. temp, turn car off, wait about 60 seconds, but not more than 90 seconds, to check dipstick). I needed about another 1/2 qrt so I topped up with Valvoline MaxLife, which I'm comfortable with.

Results: Much better shifting. A little smoother, but the main difference are the shift points. More power transfer at lower rpms, and it upshifts sooner and stays in higher gears longer. It doesn't do the confused upshift, then downshift, then upshift thing as much. Noise level is the same.

Overall it performs more like I would expect it to perform.

Thanks for the help everything. GREAT forum!

 

I'd highly recommend to NEVER use anything but HONDA ATF for Honda auto transmissions. . . .

 

and why's that? is there evidence that alternative fluids are not as good?

 

Z1 has been superceded by DW-1 which is backwardly compatible.

While Honda makes no statement like this for engine oil, This is pretty emphatic.

 

Somewhat off topic, but I really want to know. How long do you guys have to idle before the fan comes on and you're therefore at "operating temperature"?

I've had to wait anywhere from 20-35 minutes for the fan to come on, even though the cold engine indicator usually turns off after 5 minutes or so.

I do rev it a bit with the hood shut to help it heat up faster, but still usually takes longer than 20 minutes. Of course I could always just drive it, but that probably just slosh around the fluid and give me an inaccurate reading.

Makes checking the level somewhat of a tedious procedure having to wait that long.

 

Summer or Winter? Georgia or Alberta? It's important.


(I got bored waiting for it to come on, I think 10 minutes is more than enough. I touch the upper radiator hose and when it feels toasty warm I figure the thermostat has opened up and it's at operating temperature. This helps heat up the transmission fluid (it's not just to cool the fluid). Driving it around the block probably does better.)

 

Connor you've inadvertently hit the nail on the head. Surprise! your car does move and fluids slosh around and is not the same at initial startup, running ,going uphill, downhill. And yet the car still works fine despite these fluid level changes.
As a result getting a precise level for atf or oil isn't mission critical. Go drive around the block, getting through all the gears, wait for a min to check on level and wipe the stick and check again

 

Yeah at one point I said screw it it's been long enough. Was just me being anal about following Hondas steps.

True but I thought the marking on the dipstick was set for where the fluid is expected to be when it's "warm" and 60-90 seconds after cutting ignition. (And presumably not driven??) the service manual steps do not mention anything about whether or not to drive it.

I don't know enough about the tranny to know if driving it (ie. sloshing it) will skew the reading, even after waiting for a minute after shut off. Again, I'm still a newb at DIY maintenance so I'm paranoid I'll screw it up if I don't follow hondas steps lol. Looks like I didn't screw it up though cause it's been over 1000 miles since then and the car still works lol..

thanks for the help though!

 

I think letting it sit for 60-90 seconds covers having driven it. Remember it's for Honda mechanics that really don't have the luxury of driving around customers' cars to warm them up.

 

dont go by the top hose being hot, the thermostat isnt mounted to the top hose, it is on the BOTTOM hose.

I would go for a short drive, allow it to shift a few gears. When the car has been driving for 10 minutes or so, you can bet its probably fully warmed up the tranny fluid.


Anytime I have people coming to me with tranny problems that are solved with a drain and refill, I tell them to come back in 1-2k miles and do another drain and refill. One more about 5-6k miles later, and then you can usually go on to regular intervals of 25-30k miles

 

My dealer just recommended that I change my transmission fluid ('10 Sport Auto with 18,000 miles on the clock). When I questioned him (I think the maintenance minder will tell me to do so at about 100,000 miles, right?), he said I should do it now because of our extremely cold winters. Thoughts?

 

My first thought was to mock him, but actually he may have something.

I believe 2011 Fits were the first to have the reformulated DW-1 ATF. 2010s and older have ATF Z1. DW-1 shifts smoother and tastes better, so there is a benefit even at these low miles. But it's not critical.

Someone check my years (did DW-1 first come on 2011s?).

Also the service involves draining less than 3 liters of fluid, and refilling. Less effort than an oil change as the filter doesn't need changing. Here they overcharge for this (about $100). I think $60 would be reasonable (not sure about Canada). But it's also an easy job with minimal tools if you're inclined to DIY... The DW-1 is about $12 quart stateside full retail.

 

Does the Fit have cleanable solenoid screens like other Honda automatic transmissions?

 

Shop manual doesn't show any or describe any. Just talks about checking movement, cleaning, reinstalling with new gaskets.

 

Parts diagram shows the usual gaskets under the solenoids. Not clear if they have screens. Will take mine apart in a few weeks and report back.