I bought my '08 Fit Sport in November and I've been loving the car. I ran into my first issue with it this week. The car has been having issues starting. To get it started I have to use Quick Start. If I give it gas right after it starts, the engine stalls. If I let it run for ten minutes or so it's good to drive.

I took it to a mechanic yesterday. He told me that it started fine every time they tried to start it. He kept it over night, and sure enough, it didn't start today. All the diagnostic tests came back as normal. He told me he can't guarantee it, but he's pretty sure the valves have come out of alignment. According to him, it's the only thing that makes sense, but he can't know for sure until he gets into the engine and that it's a $600 fix.

Has anyone else had a similar issue? I'm very cautious to agree to spend $600 when they can't promise me that this is the issue, but for something like this I probably don't have much choice. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

adjusting valves sounds like a righteous fix above 80K miles. Honda calls for this around 100K along with new plugs. $600 does not. This should be in the $300-400 range.

 

I may be totally wrong but I can't see a valve adjustment curing this hard start problem. They would have to be so far off that would there not be some damage to them requiring replacement etc.

Before dropping $600 and maybe still have it not start I would take it to a Honda dealer for a second opinion.

Please let us know the result.

 

Yeah, I'd only go there if it has high mileage and it needs doing anyway.

I'd make very sure it's not the MAF/IAT sensor either way.

 

I talked the guy down to $525. He said he got in there and they were misaligned. This makes sense as the car has 93,000 miles. The car worked for a day and then wouldn't start again. After a few more days, we had figured out that I had received bad gas from a Valero station. They flushed the tank, put new gas in, and it's starting fine. I just wrote an e-mail to Valero, as I'm going to try and get them to reimburse me for the repair costs.

Thanks again for everyone's help and input!

 

yikes. I'm sorry I steered you the wrong way. If it's any consolation, the valves need adjustment at 100K; you can check this off the list of maintenance items.

 

Does anyone know how much the valves are out tolerance when they are checked at 100K? I suspect they are out very little to none. I've not seen big changes in valve clearance on cars or motorcycles using overhead cams.


Clifton

 

Anecdotal accounts have it being far out of adjustment at 30k. Other accounts talk about exhaust valve burnout at above 150K which could result from the exhaust valve clearance having been too tight, resulting from valve "recession" into the head. The net result is exhaust gases leak around the valve causing it to burn and fail. I always thought valve adjustment was primarily intended to correct too loose clearance and the accompanying noise but someone here wiped my nose with it.

Historically Honda called for valve adjustment every 30K (97 Odyssey I had) but the service guy later told me to skip it after I'd been doing it religiously for 10 years. I normally don't listen to service guys, but when they suggest spending less money my ears perk up. Also there's probably only so much it can recess over the life of the engine.

Personally I think Honda has it engineered so if you have it checked at 100K (when the MM goes off) you should be good. Same time as changing the plugs. I wouldn't skip it but I wouldn't obsess about it, unless you dragrace the thing.

 

I fully understand what can happen if valves are too tight, I just thought someone may know how far from normal clearances in .001" increments typical valve clearances are when checked at 100k miles.

On other OHC cars I have owned I have seen very little valve clearance change at high miles. My son had a twin cam Isuzu Stylus XS break a cam belt at well over 100k and the valve clearances were all within tolerance.

My guess is some Honda dealers may not check them at 100k.

Clifton

 

For what it's worth, here in Australia. The manual states that the GE's need to have clearances checked every 40k km's (20k miles?).

I did mine the other day at 46k km's with a perfect service history and the clearances were quite a bit off, all exhausts valves were tight to the point I couldn't get the feeler gauge in and the intake valves were all slightly loose.

End result is that valve chatter has been reduced significantly and idling is much smoother.

 

That's about 25,000 miles. That's similar to what they recommended here 20 years ago (30K miles). I don't know if cars have changed that much, but people here would balk at a $400US valve adjustment every 2 years on an economy car.

On the '03 v6 accord we have it called for checking clearance @100K miles (160,000km). The "trusted" mechanic I took it to said not to bother. I paid for it anyway...

I'd say unless there are noticeable performance issues, leave it alone until 100K miles (when the MM calls for it here).

 

If the car is still under warranty than it would make sense to have the dealers do it, but at $400USD thats a "bit" much. Performance wise there wont be a noticeable difference, but idling and chatter is where the symptoms show up.

Not sure how things are in the US, over here in Australia. There is still a stigma attached to dealers being dodgy. I.e I was quoted 270AUD or so for a valve clearance and was told I could drop the car off in the morning and pick it up by lunch. Common sense tells me that is not enough time for the engine to cool down and to adjust it in that condition would make things worse.

but seriously, its not a hard thing to do. If you take your time and make sure you have a new gasket and the right tools, it will only take 3hours max and most of that time is spent taking the cowling and other components off.

 

My understanding is that it's easiest to remove the spark plugs so the crank can be rotated more easily (I think there's an access hole through the wheel well to extend a socket to move the crankshaft). How did you torque the locknuts on the adjusting screws (I'm thinking just good judgement, or another specialty tool)?

 

Yes there's a access port in the wheel well (passenger side for USDM). I did mine with plugs still in, easily rotatable with a basic 1/2 socket and extension.

As for torquing the lock nuts I purposely used a 1/4 socket with a 10mm attachment to avoid over doing it. Basically tighten it till it won't move any more and go an extra 1/8 of a turn. They won't come loose.

Alternatively get yourself a micro torque wrench as the standard ones start at 24nm or so which is too much for this scenario (lock nut is 14nm).

 

Thanks for the information tonkatsu. I'm surprised the feeler gauge wouldn't go in the exhausts at that mileage. Maybe I'll check mine before 100k.


Clifton

 

it could be your fuel pump relay

 

I would almost guarantee this to be valve adjustment. You can do it yourself with a feeler gauge.

Take a couple of hours sometime and do it yourself.

 

A valve adjustment didn't fix the problem. A bad tank of gas was the problem, after cleaning the fuel system and adding good gas his car is running well.


See post #5.


Clifton

 

Had this issue with my '08, valve adj. and plugs cured it. Showed up at about 85K.