yessssssss, my preciousssssssss premium ul.... mussssssssst have my preciousssssss....

 

Hey Steve you should try it some time.

 

tonkatsu, Any update yet from the dealer?

 

I have, in cars that required/recommended it. The Fit is neither.

 

Hey, Yes though not directly from a dealer.

I have a few honda contacts and one is a certified mechanic that works for a local dealer as well as doing work for himself, so I filled him in on what the symptoms were and showed him the videos. Basically he can hear a slight knock as well but at this point he wants to eliminate the easiest cause which is bad fuel. He noted that a valve clearance check/adjustment could be in order given the slightly rough idle.

In Aus our standard fuel is quickly becoming 91 E10 ( which is a blend of 91 octane with ethanol). Our premium options are 95 and 98. Since I bought the car I have been running 91 E10 as per standard recommendations. So I will try a tank of 95 next and halfway through the tank I will take another set of videos for comparison.

If there is no improvements, he suggests that I take it in again to get it hooked up to the diagnostics for assessment and they will go from there.

 

Octane requirements go up as the engine ages. 95 octane should be as high as you need. Its our California premium grade. I use the 98 ron fuel here in Chicago. Oil can be a issue too but it depends on the octane of the base oils. Most are lower than the minimum octane requirement around 82/85 which because there is some oil that gets past the rings it lowers the octane in the combustion chamber and the use of higher octane raises the knock threshold.

 

Does he realize this is at idle. No load? That's a rhythmic mechanical sound, not random pre-ignition "knocking". Really I don't think it's a problem.

Also, if you can actually hear fuel pre-ignition on these cars, there's something wrong with the knock sensor, or the fuel is so bad it can't retard the timing far enough (but it would be throwing codes either way). But this would be under load. not idling. in neutral.

 

Timing is based on knock retard from the octane and knock which controls the drive by wire throttle. There is nothing wrong with the knock sensor and at idle its in close loop which is using learned parameters. This is what the idle learn procedure clears the learned conditions that some people say don't exist. Its not a cable throttle with a idle control valve and the set up is way more sensitive and knock is the cause of most of the problems. On the GE8 there is even more control that is applied to each cylinder.

CONTROL SYSTEM FOR INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE - Patent application

Patent EP2372141A1 - Ignition timing controller of internal combustion engine - Google Patents

 

Thank you, Mr. Non-Sequitur.

 

I myself would say just do the valve adjustment and see what it sounds like. It is definitely not a rod knock. Rod knock would get louder with engine speed. Also, Honda engine are not known for rod knocks. They build there bottom end very stout. Can usually handle allot more HP before the rods need upgrading. The D series 1.5 engines could run with 300 plus HP with no issues at all. Unless, your engine was run with low oil at some time. Personally, I would not think twice about it in fact I will listen to my fit which has 2000 miles and let you know if I hear the same thing. Remember, the valve train noise can travel and that is what you are hearing more than likely. If you still think it is rod knock pull one spark plug at a time to see if noise goes away if it does you found the bad rod, not likely. I feel the noise is all so present in the video for your valve train. To me it is just resonating down. Most cars today have noise cancelling devices under the hood so they are whisper quiet at idle. The Fit is too cheap for that technology to be used. The Accord uses it though I believe. Also, no engine is noiseless when you put your ear to the oil pan allot swirling around under it. Also, this engine does not use lifters, they re called lost motion assemblies so one rocker arm does not flop around when vtec is not engage. They are spring activated sought of a plunger from my days of building B16 Vtec engines for my Ef civic if I'm correct.

 

Sounds fine to me. These engines are busy and noisy. You could always take it to the dealer and see what they say.

 

Okay minor update

Filled a full tank of 95ron and this is what it sounds like 1hr into the new tank of fuel.


Sounds similar to original video, had some time to check out a few possibilities.

- Definitely not rod knock as it's only present when idling around 600-700rpm.
- Faulty idler pulley can give a similar noise, not the case here. Idler is nice and quiet with no vibrations.

It's going back to the dealer tomorrow so I will have a update then, at this point I will request a valve clearance job if I can since there is a slightly rough idle.

 

Any updates from the dealer?

 

Yes, there has been some developments but haven't reached a conclusive answer yet.

So, the dealer I purchased the car from predominantly deals with toyota's and they could not determine if the noise was abnormal or not (after having the car for 5hrs). So their advice was that I would need a report from a Honda dealer before any further investigation can commence.

Fair enough, I took the car into my local Honda dealer. I had the head technician and his colleague inspect my car. Both came to the conclusion that there is a definite knocking coming from the bottom end. They also noted that my valves were considerably louder than what they should be.

We compared mine against 2 other GE's and sure enough they were both substantially quieter than mine (valvetrain wise) and neither had the bottom end knock.

Next steps: Valve Clearance to be done as a first point of call then reinspect bottom end knock.

Updates to come.

 

awesome. Valve adjustment removed a lot of noise in my car. Hopefully it works for you.

I really do think if it was rod knock, or any bottom end noise, it would have grenaded the motor by now

 

Yeap, out of the 2 cars we compared it with. One of them had twice the mileage compared to mine but was still very very quiet and coincidentally had its valves adjusted on that very day.

neither of us believed it was rod knock as the only time it can be replicated is during warm idle *and yes the engine wouldve been toast by now*.

Now I'm waiting on confirmation from the original dealer to see if they will pay for the valve clearance job.

 

There is only 1 problem, the noise is on the bottom end and there is no other symptoms. Typically when valves need to be adjusted the noise is on top and rough idle with power loss. Hope they fix it but don't think they try all that hard to fix it. The Honda dealer should of taken ecu data logs to report to Honda. They could tell if all cylinders are running right very easily with no effort. They would be able to see corrections in each cylinder if there was a problem.

 

Absolutely right, we all agreed that they are separate noises but there is a remote chance that the knock could be resonating from above (I know, I don't buy it myself) but Honda's advice was to sort out the valve clearance first to eliminate excessive drive train noise & vibration and go from there.

At the moment I'm still waiting on confirmation from the original dealer on whether they will honour the warranty and have the clearances done as a first point of call.

 

If they will pay for it that is great and get it done but that is not the first thing they should of done. A knock test with a data logger is the first step. Then remove carbon is the second and go from there. I hope they fix it and it is a different approach they are doing. Maybe its because of the mileage they are taking a different route but all the same its still a Honda and the ecu should be analyzed first. It has the running conditions and points to individual cylinders fuel trims and timing and knock retard are a few of the corrections it monitors.

 

UPDATE

So, Just picked up the car from my local Honda dealer after getting the valve clearances redone. Apparently they the previous adjustment that was done wasn't so great.

Cyl1: Exhaust loose
Cyl2: Intake tight, Exhaust loose
Cyl3: Intake excessively tight
Cyl4: Intake excessively tight, Exhaust tight

So after all 16 valves were adjusted as well as driving through half a tank of 95, this is how it currently sounds.



....exactly the same.