Maybe it's not the red dye breaking down but the rest of the fluid turning darker enough that it's not red anymore.

That said, I would expect that the car companies do some sort of engineering studies with statistical analysis to get an idea of how long parts and fluids last under normal service. Honda doesn't want to be replacing any transmissions while they're still under warranty nor getting a reputation for producing cars whose transmissions fail at 60,000 or 90,000 miles.

Whereas a mechanic may see a few damaged transmissions here and there and may attribute it to not changing fluid as often as he believes it should be changed. (and I'm sure people lie to their mechanics about maintenance about as much as they lie to their dentists about flossing)

Sometimes conventional wisdom is just wrong. Until a few years ago it was "well-known" that excess stomach acid caused ulcers until one wacky doctor proved it wasn't that, it was a particular bacteria.

So I pose this question- show me the evidence that Honda is wrong and information handed down from generation to generation is right. Because my dealer is still telling me to change my oil way more often than the car tells me.

 

are manual transmission fluid also required to be changed around 30k miles ?

 

a look around google turns up Mystery Solved! Genuine Honda ATF-Z1's color and odor is irrelevant! - Bob Is The Oil Guy as one of the first links for atf color. admittedly its for z1 rather than dw1, but that was a change for color weather viscosity improvement.

 

????? whats the best M/T fluid to replace the OEM fluid????

 

best or adequate?

Honda will say you will be fine with the Honda fluid.

Those that don't trust honda and want something "better" swear by amsoil or royal purple or other boutique fluid.

https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/2nd-...id-change.html

 

^
Just don't use gear oil, i.e. 75/90W, make sure you use an oil that is ok for Honda transmissions. Both Royal Purple and Amsoil make one.

I will be using Honda MTF in the next few thousand for my change.

 

7k transmission fluid drain/fills? Yer a nutter, severeservice. Either that or an ex-dealer-service-lane-salesman that drank the kool-aid.

My honda dealer told me I needed new pads at 40K. I pulled the wheels and the pads were at about 50% (5mm). Funny how that works.

 

The easiest thing to change on the Honda Fit is the transmission fluid. The plug is well within an arms reach and just requires a socket wrench (no socket needed, you just fit the socket onto the bolt). The regular pan you buy at Walmart fits well under the vehicle without needing any jack stands. The actual fluid, Honda DW1, costs about $7 a bottle and you need 2.5 bottles. Draining and filling the transmission by emptying out the fluid via the plug will only replace 40% of the fluid in that transmission or about 2.5 bottles of fluid. The only way to replace 97% of the fluid is to drain and refill the transmission 4 times and this is Hondas "flush" procedure. They do not advocate using a flush machine because usually the machine is contaminated with other fluid they dont want getting into the Honda transmission.

The usual procedure in most every owner's manual (Ford, Chevy, Toyota, etc) is to change the fluid at 60,000 miles. However, every 15000 miles you are supposed to physically inspect the transmission fluid noting its color and smell then change it if the color is off or if it smells burnt or both. ATF fluid does not burn off like oil so if the fluid is low there is probably a leak in the system.

There is no one size fits all formula to when to change the automatic transmission fluid. It all depends on how you drive, where you drive, and how much you drive. It depends on what temperature it is outside and if you drive on flat surfaces or hills...highways or urban areas. Therefore, the color and smell of the fluid is a critical factor.

For myself, the fluid turns a really dark red...on the borderline of being brown...at 30,000 miles. I dont have the time to sit there doing a 4 times flush every 30,000 miles. It also gets messy changing the fluid 4 times over even if you are very careful when you change it. Therefore, I opt for a simple drain and fill every 7000 miles which will effectively replace all of the fluid by 30,000 miles.

As for which automatic transmission fluid to use, thats simple and its Honda DW1 purchased right from the dealership parts department. There is no other fluid which can be used with this transmission. It used to be where you could use many fluids for the trans, but the only fluid which can be used is the one the carmaker says should be used and in this case thats Honda DW1.

I think most people are better served with a transmission fluid change schedule of every 30,000 miles versus every 60,000 miles. No one I know drives their car around in a rural area. All of the driving around here is city driving, stop&go. The 60,000 mile transmission fluid change is for more ideal conditions, but every car I see on the road gets put through its paces. Police cars and tow vehicles get their transmission fluid changed at 15000 miles.

 

Honda has no "flush" procedure. Some dealers' service salesman may be selling multiple drain/fills as such. I suspect that's where you got your training.

A single drain/fill here in Atlanta runs $108.00 at Ed Voyles. I'm sure this is "competitive" with other dealers. As such it's a total rip-off for a procedure that's simpler than an oil change, and replaces about 3 quarts of fluid @ $12/qt. Who do you think is benefiting from more frequent changes than called for by Honda corporate?

The Honda "ATF Replacement" procedure calls for draining 2.6 USqt "at change" out of 6.18 US qts. If you don't believe me, here it is.

As the owner's manual calls for "severe service" ATF changes at 60K then every 30K, normal use can expect in excess of 100K before the MM calls for a change.

Your changes @7K intervals are not "severe service." They're Obsessive Compulsive service. Probably cheaper than seeing a shrink though, and as long as you remember to tighten the plug you're not hurting anything.

edit: did you epoxy the bottom of your transmission?!

 

There is a procedure for flushing the transmission as outlined in the January 2008 edition of Honda ServiceNews.

The reason why this service costs $108 is because it takes 10 quarts and about an hour of time to accomplish. The dealerships cost just for the fluid is about $50. Then there is the actual labor and they lose on that too. Remember, its not just the mechanic they are paying but the receptionist, the service advisor, etc. They have lights they have to keep on. The ATF system flush is really being offered at cost to you, if it is offered at all, by the dealership. Some dealerships wont even offer it because its a service they dont make anything on.

Volumes have been written about transmissions and most every expert and article out there agrees the time outlined in the manual of most any car is too conservative. Other times and recommendations for such things as the engine oil are correct, but the times and recommendations for the transmission is just too conservative. Ive been following Popular Mechanics since the 1980s and every article written about a transmission stresses transmission fluid changes and clean fluid.

Once again, let me say there are two different services 1) Drain and fill which takes about 10 minutes to do and gets out 40% of the fluid. AND 2) The flush which will remove 97% of the fluid and takes about 1 hour and 10 bottles of fluid.

My Fit is driven for 5-7 hours per day in and around New York City. The engine is started and stopped about 10 times. I put on 60,000 miles per year. So that is the context of my transmission fluid changes. My last car, a Toyota Solara, the engine blew up on the highway from rod knock despite my "compulsive" changes of fluids. As you can see, I am very knowledgeable about cars and know how to take care of them. I really run cars rough though and put them through the ultimate torture test.

 

Its a known fact that all mechanics seal the outside of the transmission to prevent leaks.

On the main topic, a lab analysis of the transmission fluid showing that its bad at 30k would be informative. The human nose and eyes are really good at detecting problems relating to our food and such, not so much at correctly detecting problems with mechanical fluids.

 

The "service" you're talking about is a multiple drain-fill scheme dreamed up by some marketing wank and published as a "service news" article to, guess what, drum up more service sales.

The shop manual, owner's manual and you guessed it; the engineers that um actually designed the car and wrote the maintenance minder logic and service specs are not recommending this.

The following receipt is from a drain/fill by Ed Voyles where the idiot service writer says " customer states HAS A DEPRESSING NOISE" and proceeds to charge me for twice the amount of fluid as is normal for a drain fill on a Fit (now an Accord might be different). I'd actually gone in complaining about a "depressurizing noise, i.e. fluid moving under pressure."

As you can see the standard job for a drain/fill at Honda here in Atlanta is $108.00. I won't be going back to Ed Voyles.



OK hoss, you're leagues ahead of me I see. I only ever read Popular Science as a kid, and my last Honda I sold to a liquor store as a delivery vehicle after I put 225K on it. Our stable currently includes a 98 Camry (160K) and an 03 Accord (90K) neither of which has blown an engine. I bow to your greater experience.

 

Well, you have one thing right in that I am leagues ahead of you and all the other posters in this thread.

First, the Honda Fit does not have transmission pan and so there is nothing to "seal". It has a plug which you can reach with a socket wrench just by reaching under the front end which is the only way to drain that transmission. The only service this transmission is designed for is to drain and fill the transmission and the engineers make it easy for you with that reachable plug. Hey, you dont even need to go out and buy the sockets. Just use the wrench. If you are going to claim to be an expert and talk about the car in an open forum than you might as well know about the car.

Second, you can do what you want with your Honda Fit. Hey, its your car. I inspect cars every day for a living and see people doing what they want with their cars. However, Im not going to do what everyone else does. I need my car and plan on using it until the wheels fall off or the engine blows up.

Third, as for what Ed Voyles Honda does and what their specific service advisors do I can't really comment. Each one of the Honda dealers is different. Different management, different people behind the counter and I am an advocate for questioning the mechanic and researching each of the operations. If you dont get the service you want take your business to a different dealer. Many of the service departments do rip people off.

Fourth, since I am an expert in the field, I can tell you with confidence that if you change your automatic transmission fluid every 60,000 miles you will encounter slippage and sloppy shifting when you get the fit up to say 70,000 miles. Hey its your car not mine so change it whenever you want.

Fifth, a drain and refill should not be done by the Honda dealer when you can do it yourself. Once you see how easy it is Im sure you will be doing it more often. 10 minutes in your driveway with a pan and socket wrench. Use a long 2-3 foot funnel to get it into the dipstick hole. There is actually a second fill hole on the transmission, but you need to disassemble the airbox to get at it. Not sure why Honda has this fill hole when the dipstick hole can be used with a long funnel you can find at Walmart on a good day.

 

This is not evidence that changing fluids helps to prevent engine failure.

 

An expert would know jokes when he sees them. Second, an expert mechanic is not an expert automotive engineer.

 

ooo that smarts.

If you'd noted I had the transmission serviced at 35K you could wreak havoc with my arguments on that basis, but instead you're off counting in your field.

I took it in to have the transmission noise documented (it's the topic of a couple other threads floating near this one today), and a change to DW-1 that seems to alleviate the noise if not eliminate it. After Ed Voyles' pathetic customer service charging double what the drain/fill should have cost, even going by 2012 service rates, and telling me I needed new pads when they were about half worn I've sworn off dealers for anything except non-user serviceable items.

As you can see by my very scientific spreadsheet, drain/fills beyond three have diminishing returns so great that there's little benefit. And four only get you to 88% (not 97%) and I called you OCD!



I'm changing my ATF more quickly than Honda recommends to take advantage of the newer DW-1 ATF (eliminates depressing noises!) and not for some delusional maintenance scheme. The 2nd drain fill I did at about 40K all in the confines of my cozy suburban Atlanta home. I'll hold off on another till the noise comes back or the MM cries uncle.

Any casual reader of these threads should be happy in the knowledge that if they follow the mm they'll be right as rain with the Fit god and Honda gods in general.

edit: the service news bulletin is for repair procedures when flushing the ATF is called for. I apologize for having referred to it as some marketing wank's missive. But lest you overflow with enthusiasm, please note that a REPAIR procedure is not the same as normal (or even severe service) maintenance.

 

Rod knock is caused by combustion knock. Being compulsive only made it happen sooner. Changing the oil sooner is bad because there is a break in period when the oil cleans the parts and having too much zinc on the bearings causing them to stick. You even said that the base oils are better than in the past so why not let the oil work.

 

wow, this is like a holiday reunion!

 

A lot of you guys are just trolls who probably dont even own a Honda Fit.

All I have to say is that if you want to drive around in your Honda Fit with brown transmission fluid or you want to get some kind of lab analysis not trusting your sense of smell or vision than more power to you. I will not be following your lead.

My advice to some of you is to actually go buy a Honda Fit before you start posting "expert advice" on it. I would also advise you to go out and take a basic mechanics class at your local university or even read Popular Mechanics. That way you can know a few basics before you troll around the internet about it.

Its obvious some people who have posted in this thread dont know too much about it. If you think mechanics are sealing up the bottom of the trans on the Honda Fit than Im wondering where the mods are as you troll the forum with such foolish thinking. You dont deserve to be here because you dont know anything about either Hondas or cars for that matter.

Let me give you a hint. Honda transmissions are sealed units and not meant to be serviced. You cant drop a Honda transmission pan because there is no pan. Actually, I cant remember when Honda transmissions were serviceable where you can drop a pan. They were sealed units in the 90s and they were sealed units in the 00s. The only service you can do is a transmission fluid change.

I know some of you guys are trolling and probably dont even know about cars.

 

except for the handy inline ATF filter on the back of the tranny.

Go eat some, turkey.