when to replace fuel filter and how much do you think it'll cost me?
#21
10-15-2012, 02:42 PM
Not worked up in the least, appreciate your concern though!
Post # 13 - I quote you
Post #17 - I use this phrase: "Granted, most of the posters on this forum do not drive performance vehicles that are as sensitive to fuel system inefficiency and would probably not notice the difference." and pre-empt a response about your 370z coming with it, as no doubt you presume it to be a "performance" vehicle
Then I went, got more coffee, took a phone call and created this post.
Edit: I can see where you would mistake me for being upset, as you were apparently hurt enough to ding me rep for an offhand comment. So now who's "pathetic?" lol
You need thicker skin, Ken. Not sure who the "them" you are referring to in that little love note you sent me happen to be though.
Post # 13 - I quote you
Post #17 - I use this phrase: "Granted, most of the posters on this forum do not drive performance vehicles that are as sensitive to fuel system inefficiency and would probably not notice the difference." and pre-empt a response about your 370z coming with it, as no doubt you presume it to be a "performance" vehicle
Then I went, got more coffee, took a phone call and created this post.
Edit: I can see where you would mistake me for being upset, as you were apparently hurt enough to ding me rep for an offhand comment. So now who's "pathetic?" lol
You need thicker skin, Ken. Not sure who the "them" you are referring to in that little love note you sent me happen to be though.
hope your life improves for you.
#23
10-18-2012, 11:41 AM
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 4,428
If you have fuels with an ethanol component, you should consider it.. I figure I'll have made up my mind on whether the Fit needs it or not when I get the rest of the fuel system together and take a look at the tank and stock filter while they are out of the car.
Ever see the gelling and other precipitates that build up on power sports equipment, boats, tractors etc that sit for a while? Same principal applies and is why they have signs at dock pumps stating "no ethanol."
Last time I changed out the element in the SS Golan fuel filter on the DSM I watched my IDCs decrease a tad more than 5% on pump gas, trims went negative and my open-loop AF went almost a point richer on an otherwise untouched tune. At that point it had only been a year since I switched to the -8AN lines from the stock hardlines, and that was when I switched to the Golan filter as well.
Enough fuel was now able to flow at the same combined rail pressure that a haze coming out the exhaust turned into a black smoke under WOT and full boost. EGTs went up as a result.
The build up of gelling was so slow I never noticed I was adding more fuel to compensate for the filter build up on top of adding airflow.
A friend in the industry suggested they may be from a component of the top-lube/oil added to the fuel when they combine gasoline with the alcohol and not necessarily the ethanol its self.
Meaning that even E10 would contain it and it would be worse on E85/98.
Methanol develops a black tar from the top-lube additives that don't mix. Even groups like Marvel Mystery oil have warnings on the container when using on alky motors.
Ever see the gelling and other precipitates that build up on power sports equipment, boats, tractors etc that sit for a while? Same principal applies and is why they have signs at dock pumps stating "no ethanol."
Last time I changed out the element in the SS Golan fuel filter on the DSM I watched my IDCs decrease a tad more than 5% on pump gas, trims went negative and my open-loop AF went almost a point richer on an otherwise untouched tune. At that point it had only been a year since I switched to the -8AN lines from the stock hardlines, and that was when I switched to the Golan filter as well.
Enough fuel was now able to flow at the same combined rail pressure that a haze coming out the exhaust turned into a black smoke under WOT and full boost. EGTs went up as a result.
The build up of gelling was so slow I never noticed I was adding more fuel to compensate for the filter build up on top of adding airflow.
A friend in the industry suggested they may be from a component of the top-lube/oil added to the fuel when they combine gasoline with the alcohol and not necessarily the ethanol its self.
Meaning that even E10 would contain it and it would be worse on E85/98.
Methanol develops a black tar from the top-lube additives that don't mix. Even groups like Marvel Mystery oil have warnings on the container when using on alky motors.
Alright, I finished my analysis of this stuff, and my finding is very unexpected. I think it will probably surprise everyone else as well. This doesn't appear to be forming because ethanol is "such a good solvent" but because ethanol is a poor solvent. I suppose it should have been obvious when others said that it "washes right off with gasoline". Why would something that ethanol is selectively dissolving wash off with gasoline? If this were something in rubber or from our fuel tanks, wouldn't that imply that gasoline would dissolve it even more readily than E85?
Alright, so what is this stuff? It is a appears to be a very large petroleum based hydrocarbon, similar to Vaseline. There isn't a single hetero-atom in the molecule (ie, the entire molecule is comprised of hydrogens and carbons), but the molecule is very large. It is also completely aliphatic (ie, only single bonds in the structure - no double or triple bonds). Where did it come from? I can only think of two different sources it could be coming from. It is either something that is mixed in with the rubber hoses that is meant to dissolve away in the gasoline, or it is a trace impurity in the 15% gasoline that is in E85 that wasn't separated during the fractional distillation process. Because it is such a large molecule, it wouldn't be very soluble in ethanol and could easily crash out of solution at the injector."
"Well, here is what I did just so everyone is clear. I filled a 40mL vial with E85 and blew it dry with nitrogen gas and mild heating (about 150*F). After there was no fuel left, I placed it under high vacuum to remove any remaining volatiles for about an hour. I was left with a clear sticky residue that smelled bad - like nasty frying oil. I dissolved this sample in the NMR solvent and analyzed it and it IS the same goo that was on the injector. There was smaller amounts of some other stuff in it as well, but the same peaks I saw in the black goo were in this residue. The black goo IS coming from the E85. It isn't naturally black, though. I suspect it just has soot mixed in with it that is giving it the color.
So the next challenge is figuring out why is this crap in our fuel, and if it is in everyone's fuel (particularly people who aren't having this problem)."
Alright, so what is this stuff? It is a appears to be a very large petroleum based hydrocarbon, similar to Vaseline. There isn't a single hetero-atom in the molecule (ie, the entire molecule is comprised of hydrogens and carbons), but the molecule is very large. It is also completely aliphatic (ie, only single bonds in the structure - no double or triple bonds). Where did it come from? I can only think of two different sources it could be coming from. It is either something that is mixed in with the rubber hoses that is meant to dissolve away in the gasoline, or it is a trace impurity in the 15% gasoline that is in E85 that wasn't separated during the fractional distillation process. Because it is such a large molecule, it wouldn't be very soluble in ethanol and could easily crash out of solution at the injector."
"Well, here is what I did just so everyone is clear. I filled a 40mL vial with E85 and blew it dry with nitrogen gas and mild heating (about 150*F). After there was no fuel left, I placed it under high vacuum to remove any remaining volatiles for about an hour. I was left with a clear sticky residue that smelled bad - like nasty frying oil. I dissolved this sample in the NMR solvent and analyzed it and it IS the same goo that was on the injector. There was smaller amounts of some other stuff in it as well, but the same peaks I saw in the black goo were in this residue. The black goo IS coming from the E85. It isn't naturally black, though. I suspect it just has soot mixed in with it that is giving it the color.
So the next challenge is figuring out why is this crap in our fuel, and if it is in everyone's fuel (particularly people who aren't having this problem)."
This then led to the discussion where the best educated speculation was this was from a top-lube type of additive, and that because of the pressure at the injector and filter inlets, specifically the subsequent drop across them, that this large particulate could precipitate out. "Soot" coloring the clear substance black, being funk from the tank at the station as well as accumulated matter in all hoses and the vehicles tank as well.
Last edited by DiamondStarMonsters; 10-18-2012 at 11:43 AM.
#24
10-18-2012, 10:51 PM
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-engine-modifications-motor-swaps-ecu-tuning/66795-evox-fuel-pump-installation.html
If you want to change your fuel filter you can see partly how to do it here when I changed out my pump.
And when I mention the black ring and using a screw driver and hammer, the ring rotates like a screw off lid, counter clock wise to unscrew it and take it off, clock wise to tighten everything back up
If you want to change your fuel filter you can see partly how to do it here when I changed out my pump.
And when I mention the black ring and using a screw driver and hammer, the ring rotates like a screw off lid, counter clock wise to unscrew it and take it off, clock wise to tighten everything back up
#25
10-18-2012, 10:54 PM
Want to change your fuel injector o rings
Check out this my other link
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-engine-modifications-motor-swaps-ecu-tuning/61337-g35-fuel-injector-install-big-pics-good-number-them.html
And the kraftwerks link I posted in there too to get to your injectors... Sadly the kraftwerk link doesn't work anymore
Check out this my other link
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-engine-modifications-motor-swaps-ecu-tuning/61337-g35-fuel-injector-install-big-pics-good-number-them.html
And the kraftwerks link I posted in there too to get to your injectors... Sadly the kraftwerk link doesn't work anymore
Last edited by TunaDaMan; 10-18-2012 at 10:57 PM.
#27
10-25-2012, 04:27 PM
The valid reason for changing it is that brake fluid is hygroscopic, that is it absorbs moisture from the air. That lowers the boiling point and can corrode internal parts if it gets saturated. 3 years (nothing to do with mileage or type of driving) is what German car makers recommend. I tend to go a little longer and flush the brake fluid whenever I change brake pads. On a manual trans car, I do the clutch fluid at the same time.
#28
10-25-2012, 04:49 PM
If brake fluid boiled due to hard braking, then even the street braking may feel mushy.
#29
10-25-2012, 04:52 PM
This rationale for changing brake fluid is puzzling.
The valid reason for changing it is that brake fluid is hygroscopic, that is it absorbs moisture from the air. That lowers the boiling point and can corrode internal parts if it gets saturated. 3 years (nothing to do with mileage or type of driving) is what German car makers recommend. I tend to go a little longer and flush the brake fluid whenever I change brake pads. On a manual trans car, I do the clutch fluid at the same time.
The valid reason for changing it is that brake fluid is hygroscopic, that is it absorbs moisture from the air. That lowers the boiling point and can corrode internal parts if it gets saturated. 3 years (nothing to do with mileage or type of driving) is what German car makers recommend. I tend to go a little longer and flush the brake fluid whenever I change brake pads. On a manual trans car, I do the clutch fluid at the same time.
it's best to have fresh fluid in there with high boiling point with minimal moisture... aka more frequent changes.
you can do 3yrs if you want, but i think your brakes will tell you when you need to replace your fluid.
#31
10-26-2012, 09:55 AM
If the fluid is actually boiling it already had too much moisture in it or you are pushing it too far. Heat cycling itself is not the root cause of the problem. I always use DOT4 fluid anyway, even if only DOT3 is specified. That way there is an extra boiling point margin.
#32
03-05-2014, 04:19 AM
at 90k I just got a new set of denso plugs Thursday she's getting a new water pump thermostat, hoses so I can go another 100k and not have any cooling issues Brooklyn can do a job on a car and it's 300miles to see my kids one way so the end justifies the means and I will be pricing out my valve adjustment for 100k or till I have the money lol
#33
03-05-2014, 10:06 AM
Unless you feel strongly about it I'd leave the hoses, thermostat and pump alone. Change the coolant when the MM calls for it. The hoses would show signs of getting brittle but the last honda (12 years 225K) never did. The pump isn't a maintenance item as it's not buried under a timing belt (the Fit has a permanent chain). The reason you bought a Honda is to avoid excessive maintenance (at least that's my excuse).
I would eyeball fluid levels and squeeze hoses to check resilience when cold, and pressure when hot. Watch for fluid leaks under the car.
On the old Honda, the only coolant related failure I had was the radiator. It started leaking around the upper tank at 150K. There was coolant on the floor and around the tank alerting me to the fact long before there was an overheating issue. That and the sweet smell. I wanted to change the hoses too at that time but no one stocked them. I took that as a sign.
I would eyeball fluid levels and squeeze hoses to check resilience when cold, and pressure when hot. Watch for fluid leaks under the car.
On the old Honda, the only coolant related failure I had was the radiator. It started leaking around the upper tank at 150K. There was coolant on the floor and around the tank alerting me to the fact long before there was an overheating issue. That and the sweet smell. I wanted to change the hoses too at that time but no one stocked them. I took that as a sign.
#34
03-06-2014, 04:21 AM
I know its overkill but to be honest in nyc and price of getting car done and I drive 300 mls 0ne way just to see my kids which I plan on doing once a month I like being safe than sorry its a pet peeve of mine the cars been good to me so I really don't mind. and the stop and go traffic plus she had a brutal summer and winter and I feel safer
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