Honda continues to lose its way
#22
06-13-2012, 09:44 AM
alm:, once again putting words in my mouth.When have I said any of those except the last of those things?
I respect the educational system that has been put in place, and its an embarrassment ours is not up to the snuff of a struggling island state in Latin America. But do I love the Castro regime? No, however compared to Batista and the other DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED, US SUPPORT tyrants prior to him, he was an upgrade for the Cuban people. Additionally, much of the responsibility for the Castro regime still being in power must be placed at the hands of the US. With all our failed assassination attempts Castro was able to gain legitimacy, if America can't stop him WHO CAN? type thinking, etc. That combined with our embargo, which prevents Cubans from seeing how much better live could be (Aka Relative Deprivation), prevents another governmental overthrow.
Hater of democracy? No, however in its current form ours is past need for a huge makeover. Voters must be educated and based on the interaction I've had, the average voter in the US has no understanding of economics, politics, gov't, international relations, international conflict, etc., they see Republican v. Democrat and the guy's persona and nothing else.
But hey, I can't expect a close-minded person with a "GARSH DANG DEMS" mindset to understand these potentially complex ideas.
On-Topic:
Drive the Fits competitors, I dare you to find something that is more fun to drive. As for the other cars in the line up, they have grown, any time weight is added, fun is lessened. This has also been caused by Americans, they feel a need for larger and larger vehicles (never been sure why, but that's how it goes).
#24
06-13-2012, 10:27 AM
Ignoring the politics, which I don't want to discuss on a car forum, I think its clear that Honda isn't quite the company it used to be. The Fit stands out alone of all the current Hondas as being fun. Of their current lineup, its the only one I'd consider buying again. A large number of publications have said the same thing; Honda has lost much of its charm. It actually reminds me of the path of Oldsmobile. It aged along with its owners, moving from a racing heritage to more sedate cars to a bunch of slow, un-fun, uninspiring cars for old people. Honda clearly hasn't finished that trajectory, but it is on its way.
#25
06-13-2012, 10:41 AM
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 4,428
For the moron calling the US a democracy.. its not.
We have a Bicameral Representative Republic. There is a huge difference.
For someone who criticizes "Libs" and Kommie-fornia, you should realize California is the closest of all 50 states to a true democracy and look at the problems that brings them. There are reasons the country was not structured as either a true democracy or a monarchy in its infancy.
As far as the jabs at education are concerned, the UC schools, Berkeley included are among the best in the world.
Based on your often misinformed and/or intentionally dishonest posting history... I could see where you would feel jealous and intimidated by those bestowed with critical thinking, those that spend time at institutions dedicated to furthering ones ability to reason and research.
Try to get your perspective from outside the echo chamber of Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, Cavouto, O'Reilly and the rest. Pre-digested talking points don't work in actual conversation where the opponents can't be shouted down or have their Mic feeds cut and fade to commercials from GoldLine and Viagra.
It's easy to seem "snobby" when you actually use facts and reason, instead of just going with your gut like real 'muricans.
Nobody has ever gone broke underestimating the intelligence of the average american populist, like yourself wetphoto
You are not interested in facts, logic and reason. You want something that jives with your confirmation bias.
OP you are a Republicans worst enemy and a Democrats best friend when it comes to the perception you provide to moderates and the undecided. As someone who actually votes for (R) and (D) alike, depending on where it suits me I can actually make a statement on partisanship.
I'm all for discussion and debate, but reality is not something you can argue against.
This includes items like: the president is not a socialist, the "lib" boogeymen are not going to force you to get gay muslim abortions, and you should be embarrassed by your stance on those seeking higher education.
All common beliefs from delusional neoconservatives in Maricopa county.
Words have definitions, and facts aren't subject to belief.
This proud anti-intellectualism being espoused by unhinged elements on the far-right is a good portion of the reason we are experiencing the difficulties we currently have as a country.
What sort of scholastic credentials do you suppose the founding fathers had? What do you think they would have wished for the next generation?
It sure as hell wasn't "readins for fags and liberals har har"
Now I remember why I stopped giving out free tech info and visiting this forum as often. Its being taken over by mouthbreathing, knuckle dragging 'tards that drown out the rest of the enthusiasts who can actually put together a coherent thought.
We have a Bicameral Representative Republic. There is a huge difference.
For someone who criticizes "Libs" and Kommie-fornia, you should realize California is the closest of all 50 states to a true democracy and look at the problems that brings them. There are reasons the country was not structured as either a true democracy or a monarchy in its infancy.
As far as the jabs at education are concerned, the UC schools, Berkeley included are among the best in the world.
Based on your often misinformed and/or intentionally dishonest posting history... I could see where you would feel jealous and intimidated by those bestowed with critical thinking, those that spend time at institutions dedicated to furthering ones ability to reason and research.
Try to get your perspective from outside the echo chamber of Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, Cavouto, O'Reilly and the rest. Pre-digested talking points don't work in actual conversation where the opponents can't be shouted down or have their Mic feeds cut and fade to commercials from GoldLine and Viagra.
It's easy to seem "snobby" when you actually use facts and reason, instead of just going with your gut like real 'muricans.
Nobody has ever gone broke underestimating the intelligence of the average american populist, like yourself wetphoto
You are not interested in facts, logic and reason. You want something that jives with your confirmation bias.
OP you are a Republicans worst enemy and a Democrats best friend when it comes to the perception you provide to moderates and the undecided. As someone who actually votes for (R) and (D) alike, depending on where it suits me I can actually make a statement on partisanship.
I'm all for discussion and debate, but reality is not something you can argue against.
This includes items like: the president is not a socialist, the "lib" boogeymen are not going to force you to get gay muslim abortions, and you should be embarrassed by your stance on those seeking higher education.
All common beliefs from delusional neoconservatives in Maricopa county.
Words have definitions, and facts aren't subject to belief.
This proud anti-intellectualism being espoused by unhinged elements on the far-right is a good portion of the reason we are experiencing the difficulties we currently have as a country.
What sort of scholastic credentials do you suppose the founding fathers had? What do you think they would have wished for the next generation?
It sure as hell wasn't "readins for fags and liberals har har"
Now I remember why I stopped giving out free tech info and visiting this forum as often. Its being taken over by mouthbreathing, knuckle dragging 'tards that drown out the rest of the enthusiasts who can actually put together a coherent thought.
Last edited by DiamondStarMonsters; 06-13-2012 at 10:58 AM.
#26
06-13-2012, 10:55 AM
Yeah iam not going to lie when I bought my Honda fit they wanted me to buy a civic or something instead. Took me over 5 dealerships before they told me "OK u can buy the first one of the 2010 models when we get one in" and that's what happened....
#27
06-13-2012, 11:02 AM
All this Honda hate for what because one can't have what they wanted instantly. The CRZ is a hybrid how hard is that to comprehend. the Fit is an econobox one again pretty self explanatory. If you want a sport car then buy a sports car! Honda makes some of the most reliable, well engineered cars on the planet. That is a fact. Please stop the whining, if you really wanted a specific model Civic then order it and wait and get the exact car you want...problem solved!
#28
06-13-2012, 11:06 AM
What amazes me is that most members here haven't even done that...a lot have said in threads I've made that they wanted White/Manual, the dealer had none so they had to settle with something else. I don't get that, why pay for something you're not going to be satisfied with? I was inconvenienced by a lack of a car while waiting on what I wanted, but I'd rather wait on it than settle for something less.
#29
06-13-2012, 11:55 AM
What amazes me is that most members here haven't even done that...a lot have said in threads I've made that they wanted White/Manual, the dealer had none so they had to settle with something else. I don't get that, why pay for something you're not going to be satisfied with? I was inconvenienced by a lack of a car while waiting on what I wanted, but I'd rather wait on it than settle for something less.
#30
06-13-2012, 11:57 AM
Some of us drive automatics because we want to, not because we can't drive a stick. MT snobbery has no place here. I mean, it's hard to drive a stick when you've got a cell phone in one hand and a donut in the other.
Some MT drivers are all "I'm better than you because I drive a stick" when most of the practical advantages of shifting yourself have been eliminated by AT technology. Yet you don't see people using muskets making fun of people with modern rifles... why is that?
Some MT drivers are all "I'm better than you because I drive a stick" when most of the practical advantages of shifting yourself have been eliminated by AT technology. Yet you don't see people using muskets making fun of people with modern rifles... why is that?
#31
06-13-2012, 12:05 PM
I do understand your point OP But I'll tell ya things have just changed.
I just sold my 600hp Supercharged 2011 Mustang and bought my Fit (Granny boat)
and believe it or not I could not be happier
for me it was just a practical change that I needed to make and so I did.
I feel ya on the fun sporty cars and I go back to the Datsun 510 and Mazda Rotory cars I owned 30 years ago.
I think Honda is content with selling Accords and Civics to older folks like myself but you do have plenty of options from other car makers.
It's all about what works for you but I hope you stick with the big H
I just sold my 600hp Supercharged 2011 Mustang and bought my Fit (Granny boat)
and believe it or not I could not be happier
for me it was just a practical change that I needed to make and so I did.I feel ya on the fun sporty cars and I go back to the Datsun 510 and Mazda Rotory cars I owned 30 years ago.
I think Honda is content with selling Accords and Civics to older folks like myself but you do have plenty of options from other car makers.
It's all about what works for you but I hope you stick with the big H
#32
06-13-2012, 01:23 PM
Ignoring the politics, which I don't want to discuss on a car forum, I think its clear that Honda isn't quite the company it used to be. The Fit stands out alone of all the current Hondas as being fun. Of their current lineup, its the only one I'd consider buying again. A large number of publications have said the same thing; Honda has lost much of its charm. It actually reminds me of the path of Oldsmobile. It aged along with its owners, moving from a racing heritage to more sedate cars to a bunch of slow, un-fun, uninspiring cars for old people. Honda clearly hasn't finished that trajectory, but it is on its way.
It really is too bad that the leadership of Honda has chosen to go the way of the Passenger Pigeon. Fortunately, there are other companies for us to buy from. I love my Fit, but now, that is it for the line-up.
#33
06-13-2012, 01:27 PM
For the moron calling the US a democracy.. its not.
We have a Bicameral Representative Republic. There is a huge difference.
For someone who criticizes "Libs" and Kommie-fornia, you should realize California is the closest of all 50 states to a true democracy and look at the problems that brings them. There are reasons the country was not structured as either a true democracy or a monarchy in its infancy.
As far as the jabs at education are concerned, the UC schools, Berkeley included are among the best in the world.
Based on your often misinformed and/or intentionally dishonest posting history... I could see where you would feel jealous and intimidated by those bestowed with critical thinking, those that spend time at institutions dedicated to furthering ones ability to reason and research.
Try to get your perspective from outside the echo chamber of Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, Cavouto, O'Reilly and the rest. Pre-digested talking points don't work in actual conversation where the opponents can't be shouted down or have their Mic feeds cut and fade to commercials from GoldLine and Viagra.
It's easy to seem "snobby" when you actually use facts and reason, instead of just going with your gut like real 'muricans.
Nobody has ever gone broke underestimating the intelligence of the average american populist, like yourself wetphoto
You are not interested in facts, logic and reason. You want something that jives with your confirmation bias.
OP you are a Republicans worst enemy and a Democrats best friend when it comes to the perception you provide to moderates and the undecided. As someone who actually votes for (R) and (D) alike, depending on where it suits me I can actually make a statement on partisanship.
I'm all for discussion and debate, but reality is not something you can argue against.
This includes items like: the president is not a socialist, the "lib" boogeymen are not going to force you to get gay muslim abortions, and you should be embarrassed by your stance on those seeking higher education.
All common beliefs from delusional neoconservatives in Maricopa county.
Words have definitions, and facts aren't subject to belief.
This proud anti-intellectualism being espoused by unhinged elements on the far-right is a good portion of the reason we are experiencing the difficulties we currently have as a country.
What sort of scholastic credentials do you suppose the founding fathers had? What do you think they would have wished for the next generation?
It sure as hell wasn't "readins for fags and liberals har har"
Now I remember why I stopped giving out free tech info and visiting this forum as often. Its being taken over by mouthbreathing, knuckle dragging 'tards that drown out the rest of the enthusiasts who can actually put together a coherent thought.
We have a Bicameral Representative Republic. There is a huge difference.
For someone who criticizes "Libs" and Kommie-fornia, you should realize California is the closest of all 50 states to a true democracy and look at the problems that brings them. There are reasons the country was not structured as either a true democracy or a monarchy in its infancy.
As far as the jabs at education are concerned, the UC schools, Berkeley included are among the best in the world.
Based on your often misinformed and/or intentionally dishonest posting history... I could see where you would feel jealous and intimidated by those bestowed with critical thinking, those that spend time at institutions dedicated to furthering ones ability to reason and research.
Try to get your perspective from outside the echo chamber of Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, Cavouto, O'Reilly and the rest. Pre-digested talking points don't work in actual conversation where the opponents can't be shouted down or have their Mic feeds cut and fade to commercials from GoldLine and Viagra.
It's easy to seem "snobby" when you actually use facts and reason, instead of just going with your gut like real 'muricans.
Nobody has ever gone broke underestimating the intelligence of the average american populist, like yourself wetphoto
You are not interested in facts, logic and reason. You want something that jives with your confirmation bias.
OP you are a Republicans worst enemy and a Democrats best friend when it comes to the perception you provide to moderates and the undecided. As someone who actually votes for (R) and (D) alike, depending on where it suits me I can actually make a statement on partisanship.
I'm all for discussion and debate, but reality is not something you can argue against.
This includes items like: the president is not a socialist, the "lib" boogeymen are not going to force you to get gay muslim abortions, and you should be embarrassed by your stance on those seeking higher education.
All common beliefs from delusional neoconservatives in Maricopa county.
Words have definitions, and facts aren't subject to belief.
This proud anti-intellectualism being espoused by unhinged elements on the far-right is a good portion of the reason we are experiencing the difficulties we currently have as a country.
What sort of scholastic credentials do you suppose the founding fathers had? What do you think they would have wished for the next generation?
It sure as hell wasn't "readins for fags and liberals har har"
Now I remember why I stopped giving out free tech info and visiting this forum as often. Its being taken over by mouthbreathing, knuckle dragging 'tards that drown out the rest of the enthusiasts who can actually put together a coherent thought.
Hey, doofus..this is a car forum. If you want to go political, log in to the New York Daily News. And by the way, doofus, I did not call it Commiefornia..you did. Must be some truth to it if you call it that.
#34
06-13-2012, 01:33 PM
I do understand your point OP But I'll tell ya things have just changed.
and believe it or not I could not be happier for me it was just a practical change that I needed to make and so I did.
I feel ya on the fun sporty cars and I go back to the Datsun 510 and Mazda Rotory cars I owned 30 years ago.
I think Honda is content with selling Accords and Civics to older folks like myself but you do have plenty of options from other car makers.
It's all about what works for you but I hope you stick with the big H
and believe it or not I could not be happier
for me it was just a practical change that I needed to make and so I did.I feel ya on the fun sporty cars and I go back to the Datsun 510 and Mazda Rotory cars I owned 30 years ago.
I think Honda is content with selling Accords and Civics to older folks like myself but you do have plenty of options from other car makers.
It's all about what works for you but I hope you stick with the big H
#35
06-13-2012, 01:36 PM
Some of us drive automatics because we want to, not because we can't drive a stick. MT snobbery has no place here. I mean, it's hard to drive a stick when you've got a cell phone in one hand and a donut in the other.
Some MT drivers are all "I'm better than you because I drive a stick" when most of the practical advantages of shifting yourself have been eliminated by AT technology. Yet you don't see people using muskets making fun of people with modern rifles... why is that?
Some MT drivers are all "I'm better than you because I drive a stick" when most of the practical advantages of shifting yourself have been eliminated by AT technology. Yet you don't see people using muskets making fun of people with modern rifles... why is that?
#36
06-13-2012, 01:39 PM
What amazes me is that most members here haven't even done that...a lot have said in threads I've made that they wanted White/Manual, the dealer had none so they had to settle with something else. I don't get that, why pay for something you're not going to be satisfied with? I was inconvenienced by a lack of a car while waiting on what I wanted, but I'd rather wait on it than settle for something less.
Not going to wait 6-12 weeks for anything. If they don't have what I want, I get what I want somewhere else. Like Mazda, Chevy, Ford or BMW. When they make it hard to get what you want because they want to sell granny boats...lost business.
#37
06-13-2012, 01:55 PM
I enjoy my MT fit, but can't seem to figure out what would be my next ride.
Honda doesn't advertise the fit anymore - remember fit is a hit commercials?
Anyways they are going the people appliance route - sell to the masses, and totally forgot those of us who love to drive.
prelude, s2000, Si, integra, crx.....etc etc
I truely missed my 93 Si civic hatch - and wish we could get the civic 5door here in canada, this is where the fit filled the shoes.
Hopefully the BRZ and toyota version will bring back afordable fun cars to honda show rooms -
I couldn't stand the old civic dash and really can't stand the new civic interior & body (that we in north america get)
CRZ looks fun but needs the right engine
accord redo better work out or else its game over for lots of clients
I actually like the new crv- acura = joke
its too bad, honda lost their drive
Honda doesn't advertise the fit anymore - remember fit is a hit commercials?
Anyways they are going the people appliance route - sell to the masses, and totally forgot those of us who love to drive.
prelude, s2000, Si, integra, crx.....etc etc
I truely missed my 93 Si civic hatch - and wish we could get the civic 5door here in canada, this is where the fit filled the shoes.
Hopefully the BRZ and toyota version will bring back afordable fun cars to honda show rooms -
I couldn't stand the old civic dash and really can't stand the new civic interior & body (that we in north america get)
CRZ looks fun but needs the right engine
accord redo better work out or else its game over for lots of clients
I actually like the new crv- acura = joke
its too bad, honda lost their drive
#38
06-13-2012, 02:00 PM
What's the point of coming on to this forum, which is dedicated to the only current Honda that is aken to the "Golden Era" cars of the 90's and early 00's, and then bash the company for every other model OTHER than the FIT? First of all, I'd say the enthusiast market for car companies like this is maayybbbeee 1 percent. Sometimes you have a great leader who's vision and spirit trickle down to through to entry level-models (Soichiro Honda and the cars in the 90's, Akio Toyoda coming into power and bringing the FT-86), but these car-makers make their money off of the normal everyday automatic-driving cruise-controlled commuters in their giant slush boxes. Honda is, after all, a car company. Honda has admitted to financial problems, short-comings like the last gen Civic, and KNOW they need to be better. As far as enthusiast cars are concerned...NSX is coming in a few years, and once the market is tested with the FR-S/BRZ I believe Honda can come right back at it with what they do best; simple, lightweight, fun to drive sports cars. And until then, we atleast have the FIT, which is an incarnation of pretty much any Civic hatchback of the 90's. You obviously don't have a true love for these cars...so you probably should get that Camaro.
EDIT didnt see that last post lol...pretty close to what I posted..
EDIT didnt see that last post lol...pretty close to what I posted..
#39
06-13-2012, 02:15 PM
Then you chose to completely ignore him because you disagree with his opinion.. Why do I feel like you're one of those "average americans" that Mike is describing?
Well aren't you just an impatient prick.. Losing your business isn't going to make a difference to them. Have fun in your Aveo, Mazda2, Fiesta POS cause you wont be buying a BMW for anywhere near the price of a Fit..
#40
06-13-2012, 02:20 PM
This.
He stated the truth. That American's have turned into a bunch of obese, ignorant, lazy motherfuckers that want everything handed to them on a gold platter and heaven forbid they don't get it immediately.
Then you chose to completely ignore him because you disagree with his opinion.. Why do I feel like you're one of those "average americans" that Mike is describing?
You made it political! And now you're calling DSM names like a 5 year old.
CRX, prelude, and S2000 are all available used if you really want one. Save your self the money and wait and go buy one.
Well aren't you just an impatient prick.. Losing your business isn't going to make a difference to them. Have fun in your Aveo, Mazda2, Fiesta POS cause you wont be buying a BMW for anywhere near the price of a Fit..
He stated the truth. That American's have turned into a bunch of obese, ignorant, lazy motherfuckers that want everything handed to them on a gold platter and heaven forbid they don't get it immediately.
Then you chose to completely ignore him because you disagree with his opinion.. Why do I feel like you're one of those "average americans" that Mike is describing?
You made it political! And now you're calling DSM names like a 5 year old.
CRX, prelude, and S2000 are all available used if you really want one. Save your self the money and wait and go buy one.
Well aren't you just an impatient prick.. Losing your business isn't going to make a difference to them. Have fun in your Aveo, Mazda2, Fiesta POS cause you wont be buying a BMW for anywhere near the price of a Fit..