A whole bunch of people went round and round on this topic since the MM came out. Honda says one thing, whether it is for PR or not, and a whole bunch of others say change it early. cheap insurance. Your choice, and there will never be agreement on this issue.

 

I'm NOT saying this is written in stone right...it's just what I did.

The first Oil Change? I followed recommendation and instruction and left the 'break in" Oil in until the MM recommended change...even though it was hard, my every instinct wanted to change it far sooner than the MM....

For the first Oil Change, went with dealership Honda Bulk oil....

Latest Oil change...Mobile One full synthetic...5W-30....

I'm thinking next Oil Change, I might go with Honda 0W-30...

But in short...yeah, I drank the Kool-Aid in regards to keeping the factory fill in until the MM recommended changing....

And after 2 cycles...I switched to synthetic.

 

Lets put it more simply...

There are owners that have had their break-in cycle go 12k or even rarely 18k before the MM hit 15%... then there are owners (like myself) that only went 6k (0%). While disappointing, I do deliveries... so 6k is to be expected for me since I would assume that's considered "severe" with all the short stop and go. There are also some that went 9k miles.

In short we've seen 6k, 9k, 12k and a few others. Is that not proof enough alone that the MM takes SOMETHING into account? And doesn't simply tick-tick miles away.

I tire of this so-called debate about oil cycles. You all can do whatever you want, its your headache to deal with. I have enough of my own.

But just for the hell of it, I want to add something... to those that are firm believers of 500/1k/3k oil changes today: Have you considered that perhaps, there was a margin of safety introduced (artificial limits) because we both had "early" technology and not quite an extensive knowledge of it? That as we know more and build newer (if not better) technology, we can change those limits?

 

Ah, I hadn't seen this on Fitfreak, maybe I don't pay enough attention to oil change threads.

I guess I didn't realize as my MM has been pretty consistant with mileage for me, but my driving habits are pretty consistant, so I guess it makes sense.

I just wonder about how the ECU tracks this, as i'm curious more than anything... as someone that studied automotive and currently works in engineering I like to know stuff

My google searches haven't found much.

 

Without decompiling the ecu, it'll be hard to say. I'd bet that its surprisingly simple though. Every engine rotation, incriment a counter by 1 unless certain conditions are met (cold engine, high load, etc) then incriment by 2. That would likely figure correctly enough for most situations.

 

I'm the OP. Couldn't stand it no longer, 5000 miles on the odo. Changed oil using non syn 5-20. Next oil change I'll probably go to Mobile 1 0-30. This car will do on average 1 auto x monthly, my reason for using a 30wt.

 

I never had that problem...

I usually neglected my Mirage and did my supposed 3k cycle in 6k plenty of times. This was a car bought it 2001 after it had been salvaged... and until 2008, i don't recall any oil related problems. Oil consumption? none that I, nor my father or brother (they knew more about cars than I did) noticed. Don't recall any Jiffy lube saying I was low on oil either.

I had to leave the car in San Diego when I moved back to Chicago (no one trusted me driving back alone in a small car), and it was subsequently sold shortly after. Don't know if the current owner has any issues with it (I don't really know my brother's in-laws).

And I drove this puppy as mad as can be... 1.5L 92 HP in the hills of San Diego.

The only issue I had was burning a hole through the flex pipe of the exhaust... twice.

 

Yea, i agree that a lot of extra parameters measured don't end up with enough difference to yield a change in actions.

GM in threads on the internet posted all the parameters that they monitor and are included in their formula, but I recall they also commented that the result of the complex multivariable formula pretty much followed the same as a simple single variable formula of fuel used. Any differences you can just fudge into a buffer safety amount.

 

Like many fleet managers do with class 8 and severe duty vehicles, I set my interval by fuel used.

 

Yep, and they don't use synthetics for long drain use either. Group II and III which are made form oil that are 99/100 percent saturated.

 

I guess that I do pretty much the same thing in my own peculiar way... I sniff the oil on the dip stick and rely on my big nose to determine how diluted with fuel the oil is... Since going full tilt with what Kraft Werks had to offer I never make it much over 3000 miles if even that far.. Fortunately I don't need to drive very often or I wouldn't be able to afford to do much more with my time and money but pay for oil, filters and do oil changes.

 

Yup.

I use synthetics in everything but the yard implements, though.

Anything with high/moly zinc, and a lower viscosity in the winter.

 

Oil does not break down like in the past. I change my oil in the car about 7000 miles and my truck 25000/30000 miles which is about 5000 gallons of diesel or about 1200 hours of engine time. I just wipe the soot and see the clean oil on the dip stick or take a piece of cardboard and place a drop or two and see the two rings. When the middle ring gets about 3/4 to the outer ring it time to change the oil. The middle ring is the dirt.

 

They are taking zinc/moly out of oils so Honda put them on the pistons. Synthetics washes it off the parts. Synthetics are good for racing where the engine is used for a season and rebuilt. Some people are having problems with spun bearings but its probably the way they drive with a cold motor.

 

Last time I sent in an analysis of my Mobil Delvac1 with 5,000 miles from my diesel Superduty I was very surprised to see that the viscosity had changed and it was fairly dilluted with fuel. If you haven't, I would suggest sending in a sample. I use Blackstone Labs, but there are other options.

I have sent in samples from many, many cars, with multiple oils and the results have been the same. Oil is fully contaminated by 5,000 miles.

These recent suggestions of extended drain intervals are nonsense in my opinion and can be traced back to the EPA. They don't think that any car with 200,000+ miles should be on the road, but I disagree.

 

The empirical data and real world results I and others in my community have observed directly conflict with that, SB. So we will have to agree to disagree there.

No one has spun a bearing because of synthetic oil, or had the coating wiped off the hardparts.

Lack of oil, any oil can do that.

But if you pull a set of coated Mahle/Wiseco/CP/JE whatevers out of a properly blue printed synthetic oil motor they will still have their coats.

 

Do you have the 7.3L?

This is more consistent with the results we have, though. I don't know about 5k as the bench mark across all platforms, but that is certainly plenty of time for blow by and fuel dilution to make a significant change. Especially in alcohol motors. That even includes E10. Far more dramatic in E85-E98 and M1-M3 Methanol motors.

But even then I don't know if I would blame the EPA, but I'll save my opinions on that for a different discussion

 

I dont have control of the oil changes on the truck, my cars I use the MM and Conoco semi-synthetic oil and change it before 15 percent. I was big into synthetics PAOs but really did not see a difference with this car. I have no experience with ester oils like Redline but heard they act like regular oils but with a longer life as long as the filter is changed.

When my mpg starts falling for no reason and its close to the oil change, I first change the oil. Its cheap insurance. I will send a sample in when I can afford it.

The spun bearing problem is with the Mitsubishi's Turbo motors which use synthetics, and when we race we use regular oil and just change it more frequent. I do want to check out Joe Gibbs oil and was told its the best by a high end racing team with dozens of BMW/ Porsche cars.


I agree, They don't want us fixing our cars either. 5000/7500 is not extended in my opinion but anything further is. I also think gasoline type has a bigger influence on how long a engine lasts.

 

You are right. Fuel type, environment, operator's habits and service duty are going to be the most significant determinant of the longevity of the motor.

Which Mitsu turbo motors? G54B? 4G63? 6G72? 4B11T? I specialize in these remember?

The mid 1990's 7-bolt crankshaft 4G63's would experience excessive crank end play and walk bearings due to the center main thrust bearings initial design. Mitsu switched to putting lateral force on the crank as the mains were torqued and a revised thrust bearing and the problems have since disappeared.

Spun bearings is not the result of using synthetic oil.

I can go on and on about the advantages of syn vs. dino, but the point is becoming moot now that most "regular" oils now are coming with synthetic base stocks.

Everyone is making the switch, and for good reason. It's not just being trendy.

On my road course and auto-x cars in the past, if I was going to be lapping for an hour or so, I would use a straight weight heavy oil. The mile car and the Fit are for a different purpose, and I am matching my oil to those requirements, as well as to maintain proper pressure throughout the operating range and to compliment the contact tolerances in the engines.

 

I read a thread on Amazon.com about bearing failure on boosted Subaru's a few weeks ago.. The Subie guys were saying the cause was use of Mobil 1 oil... The A/F ratios used on boosted cars could be a lot of the reason for bearing failure and possibly with certain brands of or types of oil,the fuel dilution of the oil could be more of a problem with...