Why no direct injection Honda engines?
#21
Direct injection sounds great but it seems it suffers from carbon buildup issues unless you engineer a complicated system to address the shortcoming (e.g. toyota/lexus D4-S).
diesel cars (e.g. bluetec).
So either you will need a complex engine to prevent the problem which means the consumer pays more up front. Or you have to raise maintenance costs to address these issues which means the consumer pays more on the back end.
Google "direct injection carbon" and then see if you really want it.
This guy also wrote a pretty good writeup in my opinion:
The Temple of VTEC - Honda and Acura Enthusiasts Online Forums > Honda Unveils Next-Generation Power Plant Technologies > > WHERE IS DIRECT INJECTION GAS ENGINE
diesel cars (e.g. bluetec).
So either you will need a complex engine to prevent the problem which means the consumer pays more up front. Or you have to raise maintenance costs to address these issues which means the consumer pays more on the back end.
Google "direct injection carbon" and then see if you really want it.
This guy also wrote a pretty good writeup in my opinion:
The Temple of VTEC - Honda and Acura Enthusiasts Online Forums > Honda Unveils Next-Generation Power Plant Technologies > > WHERE IS DIRECT INJECTION GAS ENGINE
I joke but it's a serious matter. I frequently service R56 Minis (direct injection) and they have MAJOR carbon issues as do the BMW "N" engines. Audi/VW have the same issue as well. Once you've pulled an intake manifold off and seen the aftermath, direct injection doesn't look like something i'd want in my own personal car
Sure, some things are being done to "correct" the problem but all efforts just delay the innevitable. There is no definitive fix yet LOL Mini even had a engine reflash to spray a second micro-pulse of fuel whilst the intake valve was down to combat carbon... no dice.
I've seen carbon buildup cause misfires in Minis as soon as 10k miles... so i'm fine with my "outdated" yet acceptable form of fuel injection.
#22
This is going to sound harsh - but it needs to be said. Exactly all of Honda's issues are due to the extremely stupid and out of touch American execs they have... Honda hybrids can't compete period, and its not what the car buying public wants. The green crowd will go buy Prius and Volts instead.
IMO - every single American Honda exec ought to be fired, and fire every single US based designer that made Acura the ugly duckling of the luxury car world too. They have serious serious problems, and this team is simply driving the company into the ground!
IMO - every single American Honda exec ought to be fired, and fire every single US based designer that made Acura the ugly duckling of the luxury car world too. They have serious serious problems, and this team is simply driving the company into the ground!
#23
inject some water or methanol post TB. TA DAAA everything gets steam cleaned.
The torque and charge cooling are worth it and eventual stratified injection making it to market you should expect to see more of this in the future.
Everyone always fears whats "new" and scary. Just save those brown shorts for when we start to see petrol engines run like HCCI motors.
The torque and charge cooling are worth it and eventual stratified injection making it to market you should expect to see more of this in the future.
Everyone always fears whats "new" and scary. Just save those brown shorts for when we start to see petrol engines run like HCCI motors.
#24
inject some water or methanol post TB. TA DAAA everything gets steam cleaned.
The torque and charge cooling are worth it and eventual stratified injection making it to market you should expect to see more of this in the future.
Everyone always fears whats "new" and scary. Just save those brown shorts for when we start to see petrol engines run like HCCI motors.
The torque and charge cooling are worth it and eventual stratified injection making it to market you should expect to see more of this in the future.
Everyone always fears whats "new" and scary. Just save those brown shorts for when we start to see petrol engines run like HCCI motors.
#25
At this rate...I can't say my next car would be a honda....
the fit is the only 'real' honda left - imo - lost is the fun days of the 80s/90s hondas and innovation!
they had an opportunity when it was time to redo the civic - but they blew it...bland designs - repeat sales - thats toyotas ways....
acura - joke kill the integra/rsx - why? - the beak sucks and we don't need 3000 buttons in a car
hyndai is replacing honda
80s/90s - honda/toyota for fun vehicles
2000s - mazda took off
now its the koreans
just my 2 cents
the fit is the only 'real' honda left - imo - lost is the fun days of the 80s/90s hondas and innovation!
they had an opportunity when it was time to redo the civic - but they blew it...bland designs - repeat sales - thats toyotas ways....
acura - joke kill the integra/rsx - why? - the beak sucks and we don't need 3000 buttons in a car
hyndai is replacing honda
80s/90s - honda/toyota for fun vehicles
2000s - mazda took off
now its the koreans
just my 2 cents
Last edited by vickenp; 10-26-2011 at 03:16 PM.
#28
At this rate...I can't say my next car would be a honda....
the fit is the only 'real' honda left - imo - lost is the fun days of the 80s/90s hondas and innovation!
they had an opportunity when it was time to redo the civic - but they blew it...bland designs - repeat sales - thats toyotas ways....
acura - joke kill the integra/rsx - why? - the beak sucks and we don't need 3000 buttons in a car
hyndai is replacing honda
80s/90s - honda/toyota for fun vehicles
2000s - mazda took off
now its the koreans
just my 2 cents
the fit is the only 'real' honda left - imo - lost is the fun days of the 80s/90s hondas and innovation!
they had an opportunity when it was time to redo the civic - but they blew it...bland designs - repeat sales - thats toyotas ways....
acura - joke kill the integra/rsx - why? - the beak sucks and we don't need 3000 buttons in a car
hyndai is replacing honda
80s/90s - honda/toyota for fun vehicles
2000s - mazda took off
now its the koreans
just my 2 cents
Whatever their agenda is, it seems lost on the world.
#30
Unfortunately their best sellers are the CRV and Accord. Family cars and small SUVs aren't exciting and often need not be. Americans want perceived dependable, safe, and comfortable/spacious cars. That's what they are making cause that's what the market wants.
On a note more closely related to the topic, Honda has clearly made its intentions known. When it comes to new engine tech they are banking on Hydrogen/electric.
On a note more closely related to the topic, Honda has clearly made its intentions known. When it comes to new engine tech they are banking on Hydrogen/electric.
#31
inject some water or methanol post TB. TA DAAA everything gets steam cleaned.
The torque and charge cooling are worth it and eventual stratified injection making it to market you should expect to see more of this in the future.
Everyone always fears whats "new" and scary. Just save those brown shorts for when we start to see petrol engines run like HCCI motors.
The torque and charge cooling are worth it and eventual stratified injection making it to market you should expect to see more of this in the future.
Everyone always fears whats "new" and scary. Just save those brown shorts for when we start to see petrol engines run like HCCI motors.
#33
honda lost me in the last decade. their cars have become bland, boring to look at and boring to drive. i reluctantly looked into hyundai when deciding i wanted a small hatchback again. of all the subcompacts the 2012 accent impressed me the most. being a former honda "fanboy" i was stunned that i came to that conclusion, but that was the reality. the fit came in a close second, but the accent just felt more refined and i preferred the interior.
i been very happy with the 1.6 direct injected engine as it has delivered on its promise of 40 mpg (lifetime average for the car is now 42.2 mpg.....actual calculation over 4200 miles).
it delivers its power in a very refined and quiet manner as well.
once the veloster came out i had to check it out and we needed a second car. it handles great (yes, it is fun to drive), looks very stylish in person, great interior, nice tech...yes it is a very fun car.
again, the same 1.6 DI engine is getting over 40 mpg's just like i expected.
so, long story short, yes, honda has lost its mojo. i can tell you the veloster.org forum is very vibrant and active and there are bunches of members who had originally wanted the crz to be their next car. how that car ever made it to market is a complete mystery.
the crz, the new civic, the crosstour...all a big head scratching mess.
the honda fit is the one and only car in their lineup that reminds me of what i loved about honda in the past. hopefully they wont screw that car up in the coming years.
Last edited by caltech; 10-27-2011 at 10:13 AM.
#34
as someone whose favorite car was a 1989 honda civic hatchback manual, i thought id jump in here.
honda lost me in the last decade. their cars have become bland, boring to look at and boring to drive. i reluctantly looked into hyundai when deciding i wanted a small hatchback again. of all the subcompacts the 2012 accent impressed me the most. being a former honda "fanboy" i was stunned that i came to that conclusion, but that was the reality.
i been very happy with the 1.6 direct injected engine as it has delivered on its promise of 40 mpg (lifetime average for the car is now 42.2 mpg.....actual calculation over 4200 miles).
it delivers its power in a very refined and quiet manner as well.
once the veloster came out i had to check it out and we needed a second car. it handles great (yes, it is fun to drive), looks very stylish in person, great interior, nice tech...yes it is a very fun car.
again, the same 1.6 DI engine is getting over 40 mpg's just like i expected.
so, long story short, yes, honda has lost its mojo. i can tell you the veloster.org forum is very vibrant and active and there are bunches of members who had originally wanted the crz to be their next car. how that car ever made it to market is a complete mystery.
the crz, the new civic, the crosstour...all a big head scratching mess.
the honda fit is the one and only car in their lineup that reminds me of what i loved about honda in the past. hopefully they wont screw that car up in the coming years.
honda lost me in the last decade. their cars have become bland, boring to look at and boring to drive. i reluctantly looked into hyundai when deciding i wanted a small hatchback again. of all the subcompacts the 2012 accent impressed me the most. being a former honda "fanboy" i was stunned that i came to that conclusion, but that was the reality.
i been very happy with the 1.6 direct injected engine as it has delivered on its promise of 40 mpg (lifetime average for the car is now 42.2 mpg.....actual calculation over 4200 miles).
it delivers its power in a very refined and quiet manner as well.
once the veloster came out i had to check it out and we needed a second car. it handles great (yes, it is fun to drive), looks very stylish in person, great interior, nice tech...yes it is a very fun car.
again, the same 1.6 DI engine is getting over 40 mpg's just like i expected.
so, long story short, yes, honda has lost its mojo. i can tell you the veloster.org forum is very vibrant and active and there are bunches of members who had originally wanted the crz to be their next car. how that car ever made it to market is a complete mystery.
the crz, the new civic, the crosstour...all a big head scratching mess.
the honda fit is the one and only car in their lineup that reminds me of what i loved about honda in the past. hopefully they wont screw that car up in the coming years.
I have to say, the GD Fit is not too far off in terms of fun, however I found the GE to be quite a ways off (this prior to my ownership of the Fit, when I drove the GE I owned a 99 Integra)
#35
As someone who feels the best car I've ever owned (from a fun aspect) was this 91 Civic Si with J's Racing coilovers and SSR Competitions:
I have to say, the GD Fit is not too far off in terms of fun, however I found the GE to be quite a ways off (this prior to my ownership of the Fit, when I drove the GE I owned a 99 Integra)
I have to say, the GD Fit is not too far off in terms of fun, however I found the GE to be quite a ways off (this prior to my ownership of the Fit, when I drove the GE I owned a 99 Integra)
#36
It's sort of like that, but there is a big difference between how Diesels operate and how HCCI operates. In a Diesel, you inject fuel late into the compression stroke and the fuel jets themselves begin to burn very shortly thereafter as they mix with the air--you basically time the combustion even based on the injection timing. In HCCI, you tend to inject much earlier (when the piston is still near BDC) and you rely on having the proper temperature/pressure conditions in the cylinder that will cause the mixture to auto-ignite at the correct time shortly before the piston reaches TDC; the combustion timing is influenced more by the in-cylinder conditions that it is by the injection timing.
#37
I think another problem with Honda, and some of the cars they producing today, is that they are producing cars that are good for Honda and not necessarily good for us. The CR-Z is an excellent example. Practically speaking, no one thinks that car is in any way better than the CR-X that is was supposed to revive. How did Honda get that so wrong? Where are the people that work there that could have said about the CR-Z planning "You're kidding, right?." Did any of the people making decisions ever drive an older Honda and remember how fun and special it was?
#38
The only way to get stripped out, light, ultra fast track cars powered by Honda these days is to buy an Ariel.
#39
Have you test driven a CRZ yet? It is a pretty fun and special car. It may not be yesteryears CRX-Si, but it never claimed to be. Honda even has the balls to put a manual transmission on a hybrid powertrain. It is also cheaper than any hybrid out there. It'll also hold up in an accident a lot better than the Hondas of old.
The only way to get stripped out, light, ultra fast track cars powered by Honda these days is to buy an Ariel.
The only way to get stripped out, light, ultra fast track cars powered by Honda these days is to buy an Ariel.
its cheaper than any hybrid out there? so what. it doesnt offer hybrib type performance mpg wise. the hybrid did nothing for it except make it more expensive and heavier than it needed to be. it is not particularly fast. it handles ok.
the price, hybrid technology for no real reason, and no back seat are just a killer.
it is not sporty. it has little utility. the mpg's are not stellar (poor for a hybrid). it will die in its current form as it should because it doesnt have enough appeal in any area.
Last edited by caltech; 10-27-2011 at 02:35 PM.