Dear all,

So, hi there! I'm Miz Black Crow. I'm a prospective buyer of the 2011 Fit. I went to a stealership on Saturday to take a look... and walked away with some mixed feelings and some odd impressions. And therefore, some questions.

But first, some background: I live in NYC, where traffic is abominable. My commute to work is ~7 miles each way, mostly stoplight-to-stoplight with a couple miles of "highway" at 40-60 depending on traffic. Roads are very, very rough. My current ride is a 1999 Corolla VE, bone-stock, with a 3AT. She generates 120 HP, and 122 ft-lbs of torque at 4400rpm. She's a little beat-up and is getting on in her years, though mechanically she runs fine (as any 12-year-old Toyota or Honda is wont to do). I love my car.

The vehicle I drive at work is essentially a box-shaped tumor on an F-350 chassis, with a bunch of shiny lights and the wonderful (wonderful!) ability to break traffic laws at a whim.

But lately... I have been feeling these... these *urges*. Like to get my ass into a fuel-sipping little hatchback and take nice long drives out to the countryside, upstate, maybe Arizona.

So I went to the stealership and sat in a couple Fits. The new 2011 Sport (only new car they had somehow) was already out on test drives, so I took a used 2010 base (18k mi, tidewater blue, AT) out for a spin. Here's what I loved/didn't love:

LOVED:
--Cargo room! I'm also an amateur musician who wouldn't mind taking her act on the road if things go well, and holy cow could this thing fit anything I needed and then some! I'd be worried about cargo capacity in my Corolla... I'm pretty sure I could move out of my apartment in one trip with the Fit.
--Light! I love how open she feels. I'm tall (6'), but I had ridiculous amounts of headroom. Driving the Fit felt like driving a glass bubble. The glass panels forward of the mirrors but behind the A-post won't help much on the driver's side, but on the passenger's side it's nifty!
--TINY! Living in NYC, owning a car that's a full 13-14 inches shorter nose-to-tail than even my fairly-miniscule Corolla would be a godsend for the parking sitch.
--The handling. The stealership would only let me take it in like a 5-block loop, but I liked how nimble it felt. Steering was responsive but not overly sensitive (I didn't feel like shifting my hand was going to hurt its feelings or crash the car). The brakes were responsive and sensitive.
--Window tinting. Yes, I realize this car had probably been tinted after-market (since the windows may have been a little darker than NY state law allows [70% max]), but unlike every other car I sat in at the dealership, this one was actually cool inside when I got in. That makes a HUGE difference in a hot, humid Northeast summer.

HATED:
--Distance from the nose... I felt like I was about 10 feet behind the front of the car. I felt like the whole vehicle was closing in in front of me. The inability to see the hood almost at all also felt disorienting. Maybe it's that it was my first time driving a Honda, but I felt disconnected not from the road but from the vehicle itself. Is this something drivers have been able to adjust to? Or would it be like that forever?
--Acceleration. Again, maybe it's a Honda thing, but I felt like it had very little 'pep'--pickup was decidedly slow compared to my little Corolla (and yet, 0-60 times are almost identical. WTF?). Is this something that would be better in a 5MT? Or maybe in the Sport version? Cause I like to take off at lights, and I'm not sure that a Base AT is going to be able to compete in cutthroat traffic. Is there a way to boost torque in the lower bands while still maintaining fuel economy? I'm open to the idea of mods, especially if they're inexpensive, as long as I don't have to sacrifice a lot in the way of FE.
[[EDIT --Slippery floor. Seriously, without any kind of floor mat, I almost slipped and did a split getting into/out of this car like 4 times. Why is the floor so slippery?! Easy to fix, but irritating.]]
--PRICE! The particular stealership I was at (Paragon Honda) wanted *** $18K for a USED BASE FIT ***. Other than the tinting, it had NO aftermarket mods I could find. Is that normal?! The guy actually got offended when I pointed out that a base 5AT was $15,900 plus delivery even before negotiating. How is the car worth $2K MORE now that it's a year old and has been driven by someone else?! Are all the Honda dealerships this insane?

I really, really like the look and handling of the Fit. I might even be able to get used to the idea of feeling like I'm flying the space shuttle while I'm driving it. But the pickup issue is really rather make-or-break with a car that's destined for primarily city driving.

SO FINALLY, THE QUESTIONS:
--How well does the MT hold up in mostly-urban driving situations? (I would like an MT, but if they tend to have problems...)
--Has anyone else had the feeling of disorientation driving the Fit at first? Does that feeling go away?
--How can we get more torque out of the Fit without sacrificing FE? Is the Sport any better than the Base?

[[EDIT: I do realize that the acceleration issues might be because I had 4 adults in the vehicle at the time, weighing 230, 250, 150, and 185 lbs (total load 815 lbs), since I had friends with me for the test drive... does this get dramatically better with less weight? Thanks]]

Thanks in advance. I've been forum-watching for a little while now, and you guys seem like an awesome community of helpful enthusiasts.

Thanks again and keep on Goin'!

~Miz Black Crow

 

I take it you're an EMT? I'd love to break traffic laws at a whim... the asshats around where I work love to do so (and they aren't LEO/EMT or anything of that nature).


Nose Distance: I've gotten used to not being able to see the hood. While I'm still not used to how short the nose is compared to most mid-size sedans, I've never thought/felt it was longer. The only vehicle that made me nose conscious was the Corvette (it's a terror in tight spaces).

Acceleration: Yeah, the Fit's handling does change with more weight. It will feel much "peppier" when you're alone. I have a MT and have carried two adult passengers, and it did feel noticeably different.

Price: Yeah, that's been talked about a bit on the forums. Most of us believe it's the supply and demand relationship thats actually causing that. Honda produces ALL Fits for the United states in two factories in Japan (in Suzuka and Sayama cities). When the earthquake and ensuing tsunami hit, Honda halted and slowly resumed production. In effect, cutting off supply to the US for a little while, lowering the supply count at various dealerships. On the demand side... well, check the pump prices lately? Those two are most likely the primary reasons for the price hikes. Granted, it should affect the NEW price and not the USED price... but it's the used prices that have much more room for price changes.

Did you know, the Ferrari Enzo costs a little more than $650k when new... but a tune of $1 MILLION (or more) used?

~~~~~~~~~~

I love driving my MT. But there are quirks in the shifting depending on your ability to adapt. If you look around the forum, you'll see a few references to the 1-2 shift and to the CDV (clutch delay valve). I haven't noticed anything that I consider to be an issue with them, but I suppose it is because I had to "relearn" to drive an MT on the Fit, after driving an AT for most of the last 16 years.

However, if you're talking about reliability... it's almost unanimous on this forum, that the MT from Honda is one of the better ones.

~~~~~~~~~~

As I said, I still haven't gotten used to how short the Fit is, but I've never felt disoriented in any fashion in regards to the size.

~~~~~~~~~~

As for the torque... I haven't gotten the faintest idea. But then again, I haven't felt like I need more torque, even when I had felt the difference in carrying two passengers. It's a compact car, that's what's going to happen with additional weight. I almost like, that with about 100 lbs or so in the back seat area, my jackrabbit starts are tamer/consistent (less wheel spin... clutch dumps, anyone? =.=" ).

 

Goobers: Thank you for the quick and insightful response! You called it--I'm a paramedic, and driving an ambulance in NYC is INSANE (no, I will not have any justifiable reason to put lights and sirens in my Fit, should I get it... but God, can you imagine?!). Having to pay attention to traffic at speed in a monstrously large box has given me good reflexes, though.

I, too, have been cursed with AT cars since I learned to drive, and I know going back to an M/T would be a challenge... but one I think I'd really enjoy.

Nose: I'm more worried about thinking the nose is shorter than it actually is and rear-ending someone than I am about thinking it's longer.

Price: Since all I'm doing right now is cross-shopping, I guess the price thing isn't such a huge deal. Thanks for the background; that was what the dealer was trying to tell me, but I guess I didn't want to assume he wasn't ripping me off. If it's still this way in a year or so when I'm ready to buy, though...

In regards to the Ferrari, though... holy crap! Is that for a 'classic' ferrari, or just one someone has driven around the block 5 or 6 times?

I guess I'll have to see how it accelerates on another test drive (hopefully with a 5MT) before I make up my mind. Plus, I'm planning on test-driving a MINI later this week, so I guess we'll see how that goes!

Thanks again. Any other takers? Especially on the torque-for-cheap question?

 

I live in NY and yes, it's way easier to park than my prior car, which was also small. There are a lot of 3/4 parking spaces in Manhattan I've put my car into, spaces that existed because nobody else could take 'em. Especially at the corners.

I got used to the weird nose pretty quickly- here we call it a SpaceCar because the first time I sat in it, the sloping windshield made it feel like a space ship.

Yonkers Honda was good on price when I bought mine but that was in November before all the Japan issues and gas price increases. They had a lot of Fits then, now I think they've got only two in inventory. So if you can wait, prices may come down.

Cheap floor mats are available anywhere. I bought two sets of $12 mats because I needed the bigger front mats to fill the back seat area too... and cut a notch in the driver's mat to fit around the dead pedal (and used carpet tape to hold the mat down since those plastic spikes don't help much).

Also, if I remember right the load limit is 850 lbs- the car would be faster with only 200 lbs in it- 600 lbs is around 1/4 of the total weight!

 

Brain Champ: Interesting. If the load limit really is that low (honda specs don't list load limit, but they list cargo capacity in volume), then the idea of "4 adults and their stuff" wouldn't work out so well.

Yes cheap mats are available, it was just that the slippery floor threw me off more than once during the test-drive, and the mat they put in was sliding on the floor. It just seemed weird.

Thanks for the info, Brain. Do you find that you have enough stoplight-to-stoplight oomph for driving a little entertainingly when it's just you (or you with one passenger)?

~MBC

 

It takes a few seconds to get the rpm up, then it starts moving. I don't zoom from light to light but to get on some highways around here you've got to floor it, and it's adequate for that. Don't remember the zero to sixty time but it's tolerable.

The 850 includes passengers and cargo but doesn't seem to include fuel. 4 adults and their stuff would be under that unless it's very large adults. 4 guys plus camping equipment plus beer and food, maybe not. Change two of those to women and it should be okay... unless...

 

You'll get used to it. You aren't actually any farther behind the nose than your Corolla, it just feels like it because you can't see the hood.

I used to have a Corolla and Civic with similar HP. I also felt that the Corolla had more pep. I think the reason is that Honda designs their engines to have more torque/hp at higher RPM than Toyota. So the torque you're used to feeling at 2000 rpm in your Corolla, you may have to go up to 3000 rpm in the Fit. That's just how it's designed. There's no inexpensive mod to fix that, besides to use S-mode and press the accelerator more. By the way, the Fit has an electronic accelerator, so that may also be a factor.

I think the "disorientation" may come from the nose, as well as the super-sensitive electric power steering. You'll get used to it.

LOL, yes 4 adults will make a big difference. I think the car only weights 2500 lbs, so an extra 800 would make a huge diff. In the end, acceleration is all about hp-to-weight ratio.

 

MT:
no clue about this one. don't get a MT if you don't want to deal with it just because you hope it will improve the car.

--Has anyone else had the feeling of disorientation driving the Fit at first? Does that feeling go away?

Feeling will go away. You will get used to no-nose.

--How can we get more torque out of the Fit without sacrificing FE? Is the Sport any better than the Base?
Sport will feel more responsive than base, as you can get flappy paddles to help stay in gear. The Fuel economy is relatively good, so you won't feel bad about revving the honda a bit more.

Weight plays a big role in the feeling of this small car though. Your full load makes a bigger difference percentage wise, then if you added the same load in a full size sedan.

As stated in other threads though, now is not a good time to buy if you can hold off and wait due to many events but the largest being the japanese earthquake.


Floormats:
yes, this was the dealership's choice. you are better off just buying some floormats off the rack at car parts store/target/costco knowing exactly what they feel like. You can easily find rubbery-feeling ones, like the bottom of a tire, instead of plasticy-vinyl ones. Floor mats aren't rocket science, the universal ones will actually turn out cheaper than getting "branded" custom ones...

Ferrari:
The analogy to a Ferrari is fallacious. The Enzo was a limited item, whereas the Fit is not a limited item. You could not buy an Enzo new for $650k new even if you had the money, so the sales price was already skewed from the market price. The sale volumes of Enzos are also so small that market valuation doesn't hold up. Just because there is one buyer and seller willing to make a transaction @ $1M, doesn't mean that there are regular sales of them for the same price.

If you think your Fit is somehow a collectible similar to a Ferrari, just because of the current scarcity, you are somewhat self- deluding yourself. Perhaps by being an owner one is needing validation/justification of your purchase.

This car is a consumer appliance, and one positioned at the low end of the market at that. Someone would choose between your car and a new car (whether it's a new fit or the next best thing) they're going to pick the new one. Don't think your car is somehow special just because you own it.

 

The lack of torque feel is because this car has a 1.5L engine. your corolla had a 1.8L and will have more torque down low. Hondas are a different breed as they prefer to REV higher to produce power vs putting in a larger engine. you'll have to drive the car a little different. (more like you hate it) in order to extract the power. in doing this, I actually find that I "Drive" more and "ride" less; just the way I like it. Like others have said, weight will be a big deal. by having that many people in the car you've increased the weight of the car by a full 1/3 of the vehicle's own weight. acceleration is all about power/weight ratio.

As for the nose, I've always felt i'm closer than I actually am when pulling up to a wall or some other vehicle. the nose is really short.

~SB

 

First of all, thank you to everyone who's responded!

I guess I never worked out the weight ratio of people:car on that particular drive, and I'm used to flying solo in my Corolla (which weighs roughly the same but has, yes, a 1.8L engine). I suppose when I get down to actually buying (probably about a year off) I'll have to test-drive both the AT and the MT and see how they feel with just me (or, at worst, just me and the salesman).

It's good to see that the 'nose distance' issue is something that's bothered others that they've gotten over, too.

As for the Ferrari, yeah, I was curious as to how something like that would happen. Makes sense now that I know it's a limited-availability thing. And no, in no way do I think my (future) Fit would be a collectible item like that. It was just a weird thing to see an $18,000 price tag on a used car whose new model was $15,900.

Oh, and Brain Champagne, I hear ya about the on-ramps. BQE, LIE, FDR... nothing is easy to merge onto. And there's a particular turn on the way to work that would be so much fun with a car that can corner better... Sigh. Yeah, okay. I need to

Anyway, thanks for all the support and info, everyone. More test drives are going to be in order in the future.

 

My point about the Ferrari Enzo, was an extreme case. The retail price of a brand new Enzo (at the time) was $650k. But, you had to have owned TWO prior model Ferraris AND be on a special invitation only list. The reason the used Ferrari sells for more, is simply because you bypass those limitations.

How does it relate to the Fit? While the extent and specific conditions are drastically different, it's an overall similar situation. There aren't as many new Fits as there could've been (supply limitation), but the MSRP stays the same. Yet, there are always people selling used Fits (trade-ins to upscale or people taking advantage of the surge in price, which is a chicken and the egg). So, a used Fit is available, not limited by the supply at Honda... but with an increase in demand, sellers will try to take advantage of it.

I made no such claims as to being a collectible. But principles of "supply & demand" still affect both collectible or otherwise.

PS... the $1M is the TYPICAL trading price. Prices have gone down recently, a few years ago, it was more than $1.2M.