I will state, as an engineer and former CEO who dealt with government for 50 years, that our government is why we now owe more than we can possibly collect. And more than a few economic evaluations over those years. Government today thinks of itself as bribery factories to scam voters more than competent mangement.
Government far overpays itself, just as you see those government employees who believe the little people owe them extravagant wages and benefits,you continue to see the failures of the real socialist government we already have.
Yes I collect SS and Medicare; however, if the government had left collections in those accounts and not confiscated them for government utilization and properly managed those programs there would be no problems. Since I paid for it directly and not as a general fund allocation from general taxation, its not socialism any more than taxes. Incompetently done, but still not socialism on my end. Yes on their end.
This government we have today is the most incompetent in our nation's history and its proveable. How about ObamaCare passed by Democrats without verification. $2 trillion per Obama, but closer to $3 trillion by more competent sources, to be paid by less than 90 million actual taxpayers with an average income of $42,00 a year before current taxes, means they'll owe more than $25,000 a year. Think that will work?
How about if we just pay back Obama's addition to the national debt, some $5 trillion in just 3 years, results in those taxpayers owe $611 a month if its paid as a 30 year mortgage at 4%.
Do you think our unemployment will fall from some 15 million workers? Or underemployedworkers as long as we have NAFTA and CAFTA? I'm not hiring any citizens for $8.25 an hour when I can get it done for $3 an hour including shipping. How about the latest US manufacturing plants going to Mexico and not the USA? No amount of refunds from taxation will go to hiring unless my sales increase. Wouldn't it be fun if Republicans, Libertarians, Independents, and Democrats had to buy their government services individually?
How about government employee wages 15 to 25% greater than private sector equivalent wages who do have to earn their keep.
And last, of just the tip of our disasterous government management, how about our printing lots of money so our dollar value recedes in the international market places for crude, just one example, so that China, headed for selling 30 million cars a year (we struggle to sell 11 million) will easily outbid us for crude available? Do you think it'll be long before we have $7 to 9 a gallon gasoline? We get to pay the bill, not government.

If thats not wards of the government, what is it? And if thats not what got us into the financial disaster we are now in, what do you think is? My family and none of my employees are anywhere near the incompetence of our government. If they were they'd be in the poorhouse and not working here.

 

I'm happy to debate economics. The single greatest reason we have huge deficits? The Bush tax cuts. He inherited a surplus. It wasn't 9/11 that turned that into deficits. Sure, two wars didn't help any...

If you think free trade costs jobs then you should google the theory of comparative advantage. We sell stuff overseas, too.

Funny that you question the cost of providing medical care, something that's already provided- and already paid-for, with the exception of those without health insurance. We end up paying for them one way or another... and if they don't get care until they get really sick, it's even more expensive (for us).

Okay, so things you paid into and collect from aren't socialism? But everything else is? Sure, have it your way. I paid school taxes but don't have kids in public school. Sure, it's socialized education if you want to refer to it that way. Same goes for fire protection, road maintenance, etc. It's called government. Lack of government is called anarchy.

We pay for stuff that other people use, that's called society.

By the way, how did gov't mismanage 'your' social security? It was invested in gov't obligations. You think we'd have been better off putting it into stocks and mortgage bonds?

It's easy to sit in your Fit and blame government for everything. Guess what, it's a gov't of the people.

Oh, I'd be happy to pay only my share of gov't services- here in NY we pay a lot more to the federal gov't than we get back. For most southern states, it's the opposite.

 

I'd be happy to forgo it... if only they'd just stop deducting the stuff out of my paycheck. Let me keep what I earn, and let me deal with my medical and retirement needs by myself. Yup - individual responsibility - its a concept some people cannot comprehend.

Funny how 51% of the people often spoil things for 49% of the others. The tables turn every few years which side is the 51%, but the end result is basically that gov't interferes with our lives... we should throw out all the laws that were added after the founding of the country, and just go back to the basics.

 

You pay a lot more than other states too for the royalty in your NY government.
Ah yes, been to NY a lot and we don't do much business there for its anti-business attitude. We let NY firms work thru a subsidiary but they are dwindling fast. The only possibly good thing about NY is perhaps we cvan lump NY with CA to give to China to pay off our debt we owe them.

Cheers

 

I've changed my position. TPMS is the root of all evil.

Bush is still an idiot and thank god Palin never made it there.

we do have the dumbest and most entitled population in history (Agree with you here). we also have the lowest standards for many things like driver capability.

It's a shame that jobs go over seas but when you have people using the wal-mart mentality (expecting to buy something for nothing, expecting that something to be made here in the US, and expect the person here int he US making it to be paid a handsome wage), something's gotta give. The American public has chosen, getting something for nothing is more important than having the jobs here in the US.

One thing I read above "Collections for the common good are capitalizm" but then now come universal healthcare is considered "socialist"? isn't it a collection for the common good? The only people that would be receiving at a "less good" level would be the insurance company CEO's now making million dollar bonuses and the doctors.

oh... and TPMS is the root of all evil.
~SB

 

This is what happens when you let the country be ruined by unions and socialists. And Obama did no favors in this regard... how can people in Washington be more qualified to build planes just because they are union, and the people in South Carolina who don't want a union are just all bad and shouldn't be allowed to build planes?

And you wonder why jobs are leaving the US!

I'll gladly buy a car, made in the US, in a NON-union plant.

 

1. The economic troubles of today were created before Obama took office.

2. Sorry that your industry is suffering from international competition, but there are other industries that thrive from it.

3. Just about every economic expert without a political ax to grind agrees that the bailout wasn't just a good idea, it was necessary and saved millions of jobs. Also it wasn't a handout but an investment and already the government's got most of the money back (and that's just directly, not counting indirect benefits such as more tax revenue from companies that are profitable and wouldn't be without the help). It remains to be seen, but it's possible that the bailout will turn a profit.

Yeah, let's make stuff up like the gov't mismanaged the social security funds- they were invested in the least-risky thing, gov't obligations. It's easy to throw the word 'steal' around but let's see some examples, rather than name-calling.

Oh, and collection for the common good is capitalism? No, it may happen under capitalism but that's not capitalism itself. By the way, Obamacare isn't socialism, it's just requiring people to buy insurance, which is a good idea for a number of reasons. Medicare is a form of socialized medicine for old people, and it seems to work okay, although it was really stupid of the former administration to pass a law prohibiting the gov't from negotiating drug prices.

Now I have to go to sleep on my gov't-assigned mattress, because clearly I'm not capable of deciding for myself what or whom to sleep on.

Oh, and if you aren't happy with anything the gov't does when it comes to regulation, stop wearing your seat belt, let your kids eat lead paint, and drink dirty unfiltered water. And then pay for your health care out of your own pocket.

It's easy to vilify gov't, in fact that sort of 'gov't is always the problem' attitude is part of what makes it harder for the gov't to do what's right in protecting us. And yeah, we can't all do everything ourselves, that's why we're not all living in sheds in the woods.

 

i got this:


Accutire External Retro-Fit TPMS

Way better, way cheaper, and it actually shows you the pressure to +/- 2 psi. It is external so the valve cap is alittle bulky, but I don't even notice it anymore. Plus if you forget to check it on a regular basis, it will beep at you if you are under a certain %. It pays for itself if you save just one tire.

 

Nope, just another dumb regulation to acknowledge and assist dumbing down the population. Some say its ultimate goal is to dumb us all down to wards of the government cause wards are easy to control - and benefit from. (by taxation without representation.)
cheers.

 

The only problem with this design, is that the air pressure is read by the device continuously putting pressure on the valve's core, which release's pressure into the device. I just worked on a vehicle a few days ago that had this type of device equipped, and the customer was complaining of slow leaks from three of his tires. The units were corroded and causing a constant slow leak from the valve. This is a very common problem when people use external valve based pressure readers.

 

99% of things made in China cannot be made or sold at the same price as in the US. My dad has been in Plastics Manufacturing in the US for 40 years and the only reason they are still in business is they were recently purchased by a parent company that keeps them afloat (the parent company has nothing to do with injection molding). The molds for all produced parts are all made in china because they are made at 1/4 of the price including shipping. The machinsts here that his company does work with cannot make a mold for $4k and remain in business. Both of these companies are family owned businesses so for them, they are upper, middle, lower management, AND labor.

We are also not the same country as back in the 50's and 60's. we consume more in one week than those in the 50's and 60's did in a year and unlike back then, we expect to pay nothing for it and expect quality. When something isn't, we throw it out and buy something new. We've also become a country of no self responsibilty where buying something to "try it" is acceptable. For example, not sure if a video card will work properly in your computer, buy it at Wal-mart and return it if it doesn't work with your system instead of doing research in advance. How has it become acceptable to be able to return anything at any time? and again, we expect to pay nothing to be able to do this.

This is a sheer lack of personal responsibility and it's what I refer to as the Wal-mart mentality. It is a cyclical process that feeds itself. The walmart mentality breeds this lack of responsibility and reinforces that it is ok. This makes its way to other things like expectations that the world owes these people something. Entitlement has grown out of this.

oh... I'm back on the TPMS bandwagon.

~SB

 

Well if you really believe this there's no point in continuing, we might as well go back to debating the benefits vs. cost of TPMS.

I will say, though, that one economic benefit of requiring things like air bags and TPMS is that while most people probably wouldn't pay for them as options, when mass-produced they do get cheaper, for everybody.

That said, I think we mostly agree that we'd rather pay a bit more and have the Fit's TPMS tell us which tire, and be programmable without having to go back to the dealer... especially those of us who want a real spare tire and/or a set of snow tires on different rims.

 

You don't have to go back to the dealer -- you just need to buy the tool to program the TPMS (ATEQ TPMS Quickset), which was $150 or so from Tirerack. I bought it because I have a set of snow tires on different rims and didn't want to pay the dealer every time I did a swap. Yes, it would be nice to do it without an extra tool, but I have a suspicion Honda would probably charge you more than $150 for a system that could program itself

 

Agreed. Apparently, all of these add-ons are only to aide the stupid and can't possibly be for the benefit of all. Like VSA, that is for people who can't drive or control their car. I Personally have the ability to control every aspect of my car under all conditions much better than a computer can. I also have a psychic connection with my car that allows me to know things like the moment I have a slow leak in the tire due to a nail on the road but fortunately, I have the skill and foresight to avoid that nail.

20+ years ago, when you took your driver's test, you didn't have to go around your car and check every light to see if it worked, every tire for equal pressure, that your wiper blades were in perfect shape prior to taking your Driver's Test to get your license. And today... after ABS, TPMS, VSA, etc... you still don't have to do those things. For those that think these should be daily actions, maybe it's time that this be part of the driver's test. This is an advancement in technology, not a dumbing down of the population. If it was dumbing down, people would have been required to do these things back then and not now. Technology isn't supplanting those items from 20 years ago, it is supplementing these. If people make their own choice to not do their walk-arounds, that is THEIR CHOICE, not the "Gov't Mandating replacement of responsibility".

This is absurd. TPMS is a GOOD thing. Everything good has some down side to it and those minor items are what is being extorted by the paranoid as a Governmental Ploy to take over the auto industry. Next we can expect TPMS to develop into governmental Mind control. Get those Tin-Foil hats out of the closet from when the aliens were about to arrive.

I've had 3 cars with TPMS over the last 6 years, I've also had 16 tire changes performed on those vaious wheels by shops ranging from a dealer, to Adirondack Tire, to Joe bob's local Auto garage, with Zero!!! issues.

TPMS is still mildly in it's infancy so I'm sure there are still a few things to work out. The only down-side to TPMS that I see is that there is no easy way to reprogram your own sensors on a honda. Maybe there will be an Android app and Cable for that soon.

...Still on the TPMS bandwagon.

~SB

 

I love how there are two conversations going on. TPMS vs. Politics.

TPMS = a costly drag, but can be useful

U.S. Politics = a broken, divided machine that neither party can seem to fix. Remember when you thought being American was awesome!? I don't either.

....except for Rocky 4.

 

This is a BIG downside, and TPMS itself is also a safety downside in a different way. First of all, the lack of reprogramming ability makes it hard to swap tires, eg. some people like to have another set for winter tires. Secondly, with all the new sensors, even if you could easily reprogram, you've increased the cost significantly for those having 2 sets of tires.

All that inconvenience will mean that only those who are absolutely required by law to, will even bother considering a set of snow tires.

Thus TPMS in a way you can say, is a deterrent to safety. Honda could also for the cost of TPMS, give Fits rear disc brakes, increasing braking ability. That's a safety plus (better braking) loss because they had to factor in the cost of TPMS requirements in US cars.

And the people who will benefit the most from TPMS, ie. those ignorant drivers, are the ones who will ignore the light anyways.

So one has to really ask if TPMS is worthwhile right now, given all those caveats. If you ask me, TPMS the way its done today, we're better off without it. If it was implemented better, then it does have potential, but again, as far as "bang for the buck" goes, I think seat belts, brakes and other stuffs are definitely a priority over TPMS.

Still a TPMS hater - for good reasons.

 

I think it's a horrible generalization to say that people who don't know about cars or don't check pressure regularly would ignore warning lights.

As well as saying that unless it's required people won't buy snow tires. Most would just ignore the light or deal with the sensor issue properly.

Yeah, we've all heard stories about people who though the oil light just meant the car wasn't warmed up yet, until the engine seized. But I think that most people would do what they're supposed to when the light goes on...

The reprogramming tool costs less than half a set of tires, and you can use it on more than one car. So if you buy it, you can reprogram all your friends' cars too...

I still think America is awesome, and if you don't think so I can give you a list of countries less awesome, and that would include most of the world's population.

 

Check seat belt statistics over the years. Its taken this long for us to get to nowhere near 100% seatbelt usage. The reality is that those who won't wear seatbelts aren't going to bother with lights either. There will be a portion of drivers in between that will check when warned by TPMS, but this is not nearly as large a population of drivers as you might think.

And then get stuck in snow, when you can't disable VSA, because your TPMS light is on and you chose to ignore it. What were you saying about ignorant drivers?

Rome was awesome too, once upon a time. In a few generations, we'll see what's left of America's awesomeness, if we continue down the wrong path. For now, you're totally right... but we're slipping, slowly, but surely. And we're awesomely in debt too. Woohoo.

 

I'm not an expert in the psychology of boneheads, but I figure that people not wearing seat belts just think they're not going to have an accident (and mostly they're right; it's the small number of times they're wrong that count). But a warning light? That could cost money... or lead to an accident.

 

This is Ignorant. TPMS for economy cars is, again, realistically in it's infancy. A few thigns still needto be figured out and the biggest Hurdle, is the re-programability of the TPMS system. If you are responsible and do swap your tires out, needing a TPMS system, the extra $200/year MAX realistically isn't that big of a deal. Before anyone goes on about the "poor" who cannot afford the extra $200/year , that's a load of CRAP. It may not be "convenient" to spend the extra $200/year but if it is necessary, then it's necessary and the money can be easily found. Usually it means cutting down to 2 packs of cigarettes a week from 4 or cutting back on the number of 6 packs, or using a regular cell phone and packing away the iPhone. It's all about choices and as I stated above, Personal responsibility. By the same logic as above, Driving is a deterrent to Safety, seatbelts themselves are a deterrent as you could get stuck in your car. A Case can be made for any situation but realistically, TPMS IS a good thing AND a safety improvement.

Rear discs would do little or nothing to aide in the fit's Safety and it would cut down on the economy by adding weight. Hmmm which to pay for, more gas so I can say I have disc brakes that do nothing, or pay more for a TPMS system that DOES do something... tough call...

As for snow tires? Why would TPMS change anything. My altima had TPMS and I ran snow tires for two seasons before trading it in for the FIT. Currently I do run a 2nd set of wheels without TPMS but I don't have VSA. If I did, I'd either pick another set of sensors and have them programmed at the dealer, get a quickset tool, or just mount/balance on the OEM wheels twice/year like so many people already do. Here in VT, everyone has snow tires and so on Craigslist, there are So many sets of snow tires for sale (sans wheels).

And to generalize that people who are complacent about things such as tire pressure will ignore the light on the dash is completely inaccurate. I know a lot of people who don't do regular vehicle checks (who HAVE needed air in their tires) and they are the most paranoid about dash lights. They pull over and call the dealer, their mechanic, (or me). My brother is one of these.

The seatbelt assumption - this is another generalization which is not reality but completely inaccurate. Behavior will be different based upon perceptions. Most everyone knows that low pressure tires are dangerous. Ask the people that don't wear seat belts if they think their driving style is dangerous. They'll say no most of the time. The reason they don't wear seat belts is they don't perceive any danger. They'll more than likely fix something that they see as potentially dangerous such as a low pressure tire.

Getting stuck in the snow, because you chose to ignore a light? are you serious? That's like saying it is not the fault of the driver for getting themselves stuck in the snow when they CHOSE to drive their car with Summer tires during a huge blizzard. It's a BAD CHOICE, not the fault of a system implemented in the car. Might as well blame power windows for that one.

The reality of the situation is that for 99.9999999% of the population out there, TPMS is a good thing. is it 100% perfect? no! But nothing is. Yes... there needs to be some improvements such as cost, calibration, etc... Saying that TPMS is dangerous is absurd because some people will make the wrong decision about how to properly maintain their vehicle.

~SB