Hi everyone,

First post here. Have read many threads and already found many answers (which create additional questions). In rather low form I'd like to ask you all a few of the questions I've already seen answered in my own personal context (apologies). I would be extremely appreciative if anyone in the know could take a look at my vehicle needs and subsequent questions to provide some informed feedback and advice.

Context:
My wife and I are about to buy our first new vehicle together. This is a huge deal. We are working class and need to make a good decision - we plan on having our next vehicle for 15 years. We test drove the Golf and Jetta S-wagen TDI's, the Fit, the 2012 Focus hatch and the Prius 3. We have narrowed our two choices down to the 2011 Fit and The Golf TDI (over the s-wagen because of vehicle manufacture location and reputation of reliability coming from those two locations).

Vehicle needs:
We live at 9,000 feet in the mountains. We sold her Subaru Legacy and kept my '98 CR-V. The CR-V will serve as the 'when we need clearance' or 'deep snow day' vehicle. My '98 CRV has 200k on it and has been amazing in terms of reliability. I am a Honda fan in that regard.

We want a HIGH fuel economy vehicle for everyday driving. I will be using it for recreational based road trips meaning driving up and over steep passes at altitude with another person and kayaks or bikes - an area in which the TDI will excel compared to the Fit in terms of maintaining speed/power. Also just general commuting/driving and things like work trips - which will also involve mountain passes and high altitude driving. I am ok with a little psuh in the Fit but don't want to be struggling to maintain 50 MPH uphill on the passes all the time.

We need a reliable vehicle because our hard earned dollar cannot afford constant expensive repairs, we want it to last us 15 years and we are 4 hrs away from a VW dealer. I am not a techy guy but realize after reading some TDI forums it seems that VW owners need to be 'more involved' than with other cars. I can get into that...to a point. Ie fuel additives, getting educated about cold starts, religiously changing the t-belt etc. However, I dont realistically see myself getting full-bore into mechanical tinkering and electronics maintenance.

We drove Golf TDI and Fit. No comparison in terms of look, interior feel and most importantly ride. My wife was 'whatever' about Fit (it will work as a non-stimulating conveyance) and excited about the Golf TDI (turned her form an I don't care about cars and would rather bike anyway to I love driving this car). Bottom line, we would rather drive the Golf TDI: If reliability was expected to be the same there would be no contest. Not like we dislike the Fit - it's just not inspiring and fun in comparison.

Golf is obviously about $8 k more expensive, uses more expensive fuel, is more expensive to maintain but gets better fuel economy and hauls uphill. Overall, cost/mi according to consumer reports is $0.44 for the Fit and $0.50 for the Golf TDI. Pretty close. Maintenance and ownership add up to about $6k greater for the Gold TDI over a 5 year period. This is a bit harder to justify just for driving pleasure. Add in the potential reliability issue - $6k more for a less reliable vehicle?

Fit is cheaper and has question-less reliability. Goes from point a to b. Wont cost us much and its gas-n-go. ONLY concern is uphill power and loss of fuel economy at altitude, which would make Selling the Subaru a bad decision. Would love to get your opinions here. We are considering the base AT because there are no MT's left. Would it be worth going to the sport AT to get the paddle shifters - would that help with uphill mountain pass driving significantly?

Can you offer advice - what should we do? Go for the car that we can afford that will potentially loose fuel economy at altitude and possibly disappoint driving over passes but that will not throw us any curve balls we cant afford? On the other hand the Fit COULD kick ass, get us 40 mpg, struggle a bit over passes when totally overloaded but likely be fine with just two people and bikes (who knows)? OR do we overextend ourselves a bit financially to buy a Golf TDI which is a pleasure to drive in confidence that we will get a 'good one' that will not have any reliability issues and last us a long time with proper maintenance? Realize, we are up a creek if expensive repairs come along and will then be car-less.

Any meaningful input appreciated and I would LOVE to hear from folks who are using these in the mountains or at altitude for recreation weekend trips. Is power adequate and does MPG maintain at acceptable level in such conditions?

Lastly, we expect to get 40 MPG hwy driving - is this realistic? Most of our luves are spent at 9,000 feet with driving down to 4 or 5,000 feet.

THANK YOU so much!!!!

 

A quick response from a Honda Jazz owner who sold his beloved Subaru Outback. First off you both need to be happy about the new car.
After that major issue being overcome then in my view the Fit is better built than the Golf , in the UK VW are trading on their past reputation - today the vehicles are well overpriced and dealers are just a shop for $000 cups of free coffee when your buying - the cars are no longer reilable as in the past.
If your wife can take to the Fit try both manual & CVT versions over the roads in your area then go on a well deserved vacation with the $$$ you have saved.
Your local Honda dealer should be keen to help with an extended loan, if not hire one. Make sure your both happy before you part with your hard earned $$'s

 

no cvt fit stateside.

seems like you guys are more interested in the VW. I would opt for that route.

unless you guys are TRULY "don't care what car, just want to go from point A- point B."

 

True...IF they had the same reliability, yes, we would definitely go Golf TDI. However, they don't. I certainly like the Fit and like its reliability. My only reservation is being able to climb mountain passes with some gear as well as maintaining fuel economy at altitude - I guess i should have just focused my question there. I did see a thread with similar line of questioning recently with mixed results. In any case, thanks for responding.

 

It's really hard to say. First, you are pretty much in the exact situation where the golf tdi makes the most sense. Long driving distances with a bit of load are where the TDI shines. In addition, imo, long distance driving is where the fit gets a bit meh, as I find the seats uncomfortable after a time.

This is one of those sorts of situations that its hard to tell you what to do, as you've already discovered all the major pros and cons. The fit will be more reliable, is pretty cheap to buy and drive, but isn't as fancy a car. The Gold TDI is more luxurious, much better for your specific situation, but is higher priced and less reliable. It comes down to the trade off on those points for you.

One additional consideration, as you want to keep this car a long time. Kids fill up the space quickly. If you are thinking about having kids (especially more than one), you should look at how the car will fit with that.

 

Thanks for that feedback. Yep, we want to eventually haul kids and a dog as well. The Jetta Sportwagen TDI (another consideration though made in Mexico while Gold is made in Germany) would fit well here THOUGH I think the Fit could handle that too due to the super smart Honda interior configuration.

 

I've had a few VWs in the past and I've loved each of them. having said that, you need to be aware of their issues and educate yourself about DIY vs. repair shop. if you're not the type who is willing to do the work yourself, ownership can get very, very expensive after the warranty is up. if you're not keeping the car after the warranty is up, I'd feel OK about the purchase.

I love my honda fit and while it may get decent safety ratings, it feels like a tin can compared to any current VW.

since you live in the Rockies, I'd personally favor the TDI for the torque alone.

 

If you're looking at multiple kids, I'd rule out the fit personally. kids are small, but the car seats get big. I can fit one infant seat in the middle rear, where it sticks slightly between the two front seats, but no way would it fit with two seats in the back. We haven't gotten to a rear facing convertible yet, so I'm hoping that'll fit in one of the outboard seats, so I'll have the option of using one magic seat.

ETA: one thing I did when buying the fit was taking the fit on a test drive to Babys R Us and taking the display seats out to see how they fit in the car, while making sure we were still comfortable. I'd recommend doing that with both cars to get a sense of how things would work with kids.

 

I think the Fit would be a little too light weight for how you plan on using it.

VWs will be more expensive to maintain, but I think will be better suited towards your use. Amortizing the cost to buy over 15 years makes it a wash. I'd go for the TDI rather than a Fit.

For lighter commuter use the Fit is excellent and my first choice (obviously).

 

Thanks for feedback so far everyone. Anyone out there have any compelling reasons to go Fit? Lets say we forget the kids/dogs consideration but are still driving in the mountains?

 

I had considered a TDI, but my impression is that the VWs slowly self-destruct over a relatively short period of time (everything but the motors which are exceptional).

By the way, car seats make most sedan back seats very cramped. I thought our accord sedan had a lot of room but not once you put a convertible car seat back there.

Once they outgrow the seats they will have a lot of room, even in a fit.

 

I want to love the TDIs from VW. I want to support anyone who brings fuel-efficient diesels to the US since our manufacturers refuse to do so. Like you, I strongly considered the new TDI before I "settled for" the Fit. I then remembered back to my first and last experience with VW. I bought a new MarkIV Jetta the day I graduated college. I swear to you, while driving it off the lot, the CEL came on! It was all down hill from that point onward. My 3 years with that car were rough. Now, I understand that my single bad car does not represent a random sample but it was enough to steer me away from VW until they PROVE to me they've improved their quality. I can see why the VW is leading the pack in your (wife's) eyes. It has so much torque and it's far more comfortable than my Fit. These premium features come at a cost...proprietary technology in the VW that very few shops can work on (hell, the switchblade key/remote costs $250 to replace). For me it's function over form or status. My Fit performs all that I ask of it at massive discount to the TDI.

Back to the power issue: the land where I live is FLAT...I mean Bonneville Salt Flats-flat. I do not have any idea how well the Fit climbs CO roads. I'd opt for the VW based on your power needs alone. Just pray they've improved the quality in recent years.

EDIT: I second vickenp's Mazda 3 suggestion below. The styling is on the bold side and it's not too thrifty on the fuel but I'd trust Mazda's reliability over VW's any day of the week. Add that to your short list if you have not done so.

 

my 2 cents

we're a young family with 2 boys and I had the boys in their car seats, my wife, and I - booting around town - no problems - honestly once had that configuration with my sis in law, in teh middle rear, on an angle and a costco run in the back, - with this config, it was tight and the engine was working.

But the fits doing well, esp with one of our boys now out of his chair.

You mentioned a dog as well - first thing to note, the fabric loves dog hair, it sucks actually - and that would be pushing it, esp since you want the car to last a long time, like I do.

Ours is a manual, which really makes a difference in small cars like the fit.

Our other vehicle is a nissan xtrail and does its jobs for big trips or bad snowy days.

the hillls with an auto and fully loaded car would be an issue i think with the fit.

what u really need is a civic 5door - but honda can't get over it that north americans need such a vehicle like they used to. (we are in canada)

for the vw - its nice but i don't trust it - i would actually look else where for your needs - mazda 3 wagon maybe?

 

Are those your only two choices? I'm suprised that you don't just go and get a WRX wagon, or a used legacy wagon. The VW TDI is 24-25k, and you could easily get into a used turbo Subie for that.

I couldn't imagine using a fit in high elevations.

Drive a Chevy Cruze Eco. 42mpg, turbo and apparently fits your budget. I absolutely loved the TDI Golf and Jettas I drove. Problems:

1. Diesel changes with the weather, and more than with gasoline. You can figure a 2-5mpg drop in the winter. I see it in my truck (cummins ram).

2. Why pay $25k for a tiny car?

3. VW isn't exactly known for reliability, and they aren't getting any better.

You live at elevation. Every time I was in Colorado for Skiing, you see Subarus everywhere for good reason. Turbos have an advantage at elevation.

 

Obvious downside on the WRX wagon is the ~20MPG, and the premium fuel requirement.

I'd go with a pain impreza if you want a great car that should be trouble-free for 100k miles.

Another car that costs less than the TDI is the Honda Accord sedan (if you hunt and haggle), and that is a lot of car for the money.

As far as high altitude, I only drove my Fit once over Donner Pass (CA/NV) and got exceptional mileage, somewhere in the area of 36mpg, not even trying. I would suggest you go in expecting ~30MPG for your calculations.

 

I can't speak for CO but I've been on a couple of trips through WV over "passes" of 6-8 mi of 7% grade and had no issues with my Fit (2010Sport Auto). With my wife, me and long weekend luggage it was able to accelerate on these hills, although no neck-brace needed. 3rd gear is good for at least 85mph.

 

Is the octane in CO for reg still 85? I remember filling with that a couple of years ago out at Peterson

 

Yep - reg gas in CO is 85 Octane.

 

The German engineering diesel is sure very attractive. I've never owned a VW but a close friend of mine has. After what he went through I question the durability of the beast!

If I were really interested, I would be hanging around a VW forum. Or I would be searching in Google for TDI complaints. I did that with the Soul and the Fit was the winner by a long shot.
HTH JIm 0311

 

HiCo, I love the Fit and here in VT we have a few "mountains" (molehills for you) and the fit does well. It IS loud going up hills as you have to keep it revved and fuel economy WILL suffer. I'm averaging about 37-38mpg on 2 years of driving with small "hills" that I have to go over. when we take it on family " jaunts " around the area which usually means going up into the mountainous areas of Vt, the economy drops by 2-3mpg (around 35) but I am talking about a change in elevation of maybe 500-700 feet. You'll likely average in the low 30's for lifetime economy on the vehicle in your conditions as you have a number of things going against you for any vehicle altitude & mountains. In your area I would seriously consider something with a larger displacement engine or a hybrid with more torque and maybe slightly larger in size if you are considering using this as the primary family hauler instead of the CR-V. What about something like the Civic hybrid since you are are looking at economy. It is still in your price range and is rated for 44/44/44mpg across the board. It has more torque, will be more comfortable as a commuter and will likely have more room in the back for kids (not sure about how you'd handle a dog with more than one kid though)

You can probably calculate your expectations by looking at your current CRV economy (if you've kept track), and comparing it to what many others get on places like fueleconomy.gov, then look at the FIT's economy on that site... you will likely be about the same % below or above what the FE.Gov site shows. I would not realistically expect 40. 30-32... would be my guess.

As for the 15 year plan. that is WAY too long to worry about now. will the FIT do it? Likely without many issues at all. Is it something you can aim for? yes. Is it something you can plan on/expect... No.(for ANY vehicle) Plan on keeping the fit for 5-7 years (when you have it paid off) and then go from there but get something that you can afford that suits your needs.

Also, others here have said that premium fuel helps performance and economy but personally I'm not buying it... however, in higher elevations, using 89 or 91 might not be a bad Idea.

Seriously, I'd consider the civic as it is rated (just the regular base model) at 39mpg while the fit is 33. It also has a bigger engine which will suit your needs in hillier areas, be more comfortable, and sill be much cheaper & more reliable than the VW. It's not a hatch though. Maybe in a few years when the familly has come along and you have a dog (if you don't already), trade the CRV for a Certified Used CRV to be the family hauler for long trips and keep the civic as a commuter.

the fit is a great car... but not right for all, nor right for all situations.

My $.02

~SB