No, it isn't.
The MT cars are geared lower then the AT cars, both in the transmission and in the differential. This means that the MT cars will be QUICKER then the AT. But it also means that the AT cars are going to have a higher top end, and a lower RPM rate at highway speeds.

Zach

 

From the graph... if nothing else for consistency through Tip-In and then the graph below intimates that the throttle plate accelerates quicker across the board which would move you to different cells In addition to power output accelerating any quicker also depends on gearing and what our VE table actually looks like.

This effect will be diminished as the revs climb, where that is on the Fit with X & Y mods? I can't say for sure. Will it help you if your in 2nd @ 1.5k and mash it? Probably not. Would it make a difference in 2nd @ 4500? In my opinion yes, it should.

The throttle is basically choking the engine, it is a variable restrictor plate, if you get it out of the way faster you let whatever torque the timing/fuel will allow for to take over sooner. But once it is wide open it's not going to change anything.

Though one could argue that this process would increase what is called "Jerk" in Physics, which is the third derivative (V''') IIRC someone who's taken Calc recently help me out here.. or the acceleration of your acceleration. This should, by my estimation, for what thats worth slightly increase your acceleration (2nd derivative, V'') and as follows your velocity of course. (V')

So we are talking about "a change in the rate of change."

In much the same way that a lightened flywheel allows the engine to climb through the revs faster because there is less mechanical resistance, by opening the throttle faster in areas where the engine produces the bulk of its torque you can release the torque sooner, not necessarily more of it though.



Were I going to do an all-motor build on the L15 it would consist of the following:

-Throttle
-AEM FIC (before anything else)
-Lightened Flywheel w/ 6-puck sprung hub clutch
-Light wheels (My new Rotas with big bulky 195/60 snow tires on them weigh 7.x lbs less per corner than the stock GD sport wheels wrapped V-rated 195/55 all-seasons, there are obviously gains to be had here, either way thats 28lbs of rotating mass gone, which is huge.)
-Light, super sticky summer tires
-Light brakes (brembo cross-drilled OE replacements)
-Chassis and suspension cross bracing/ladder bars
-Intake piping/filter
~60mm exhaust
-Bisimoto Cam/Valvetrain
-Shorter 3/4 Gear w/ stock 5th and Final from MFactory
-Limited Slip Diff
-Colder spark plugs
-Wideband oxygen sensor
-EGT probe

I would use the same rotating assembly that I am sourcing for my boosted build this spring, except raised compression ratio instead of lowered.. <300gram 11.x:1CR Mahle slugs attached to some featherweight Groden Aluminum rods and some super slick, coated & grooved bearings

Then with some toluene blended in with pump 93, I would start to lean things out and get real aggressive with timing across the MAP via the AEM FIC!

 

DiamondStars - I only understood about 1/4 of what you just said...but I'm impressed! =)

 

Just wait for the PCM to be cracked. It's not like a GM where one can tune just about any V6 or V8-powered GM since about 1997 or so.

 

Hah, sorry sometimes I get ahead of myself and grammar takes a back seat.. If theres anything I can clarify let me know

I have been swamped working full time and school full time plus all of life's other obligations so when I finally get to sit down and type down what I have been thinking all day it can come out as word salad



More than a few serious tuning products exist for the Fits already.. The FIC for instance.

 

Nobody seems to be listening to you lol. You've mentioned this at least 3 times.

 

I think you are right.

Or that when they are referring to tuning products they mean they are waiting for some magical universal chip flash that can calibrate its self to what ever odds and ends you bolt on

When I think tuning hardware I think datalogging with a laptop attached to the ECU while on the dyno or cruising around with friends and tune in real time under the actual atmospheric and load factors you see on the street season to season

 

Lighter wheels are the best thing over all for all around performance followed by ETC then boost.... I have a F/IC but it is intimidating to me at this point in my life.. That is why I went with the KWSC high boost kit with Hondata reflash.... I am going to have to get over being intimidated because I know there is more power and economy to be had by using it with methanol/water injection.

 

Look at the graph.

All the throttle controller does is open the throttle earlier in the gas pedals downward push. But, once you get to WOT, it can't do any more for you. You will get faster power, but lose economy and the engine will be wide open by the time your foot is 75% down on the pedal. The last 25% push of the pedal gets you zero added power. Once the throttle is wide open, it can't be opened any more.

But that is all it does. Just opens the throttle earlier in the pedal stroke. it would be similar to pushing your foot down faster.

Zach

 

You are correct in what you say.... If the DBW system didn't open so ridiculously slow an ETC wouldn't be worth having.... There is one sold by twpanson that has the ability to open much slower than stock as well and is nice to have if you like or need the option of having it work that way.... I find that with boost I don't need as much responsiveness and use the slowest opening mode often.... The fastest settings can be too much too soon , but at times it gives you an advantage in fast moving heavy urban traffic to get in the lane you need to be in without being cut off..... When I rev my engine in the fastest mode you would think for sure that I had a super light flywheel..... I bought it for the slower response feature after installing a KWSC kit but I still use other settings at times and my car is faster when I do.

 

Even if your only mods were to be messing with the intake and exhaust? Have we determined that the car really does dial back any power-adders? If so, then this is the route we need to be taking, obviously. Has anyone played with one on a ge8 yet?

 

Correct, because they require changes to the stock VE (Load) map, and the ECU sees this as a problem instead of just extra airflow because it puts them outside the parameters it has been programmed to deal with.

If I can find some of the threads that have come up (so far GD only) There were a couple good links but I am at work currently..

The biggest support for this, would be when people like DOHCtor and others have reset the ECU between dyno/drag runs and see immediate changes. Though admittedly this can be the result of many factors...

For instance in resetting your ECU, you are resetting fuel trims, recorded drive cycles and setting your timing/fuel schemes back to MaxOct.

 

If Hondata would release a basemmap relfash as they do many other popular Honda/Acura vehicles this thread would be full of win

 

How is the hondata basemap going to be any different than the EMU or AEM basemap? The basemap is a stock VE (Load) table, with stock fuel/timing tables. The GD's at least, are Speed Density to begin with anyways.

You are still going to have to tune any and all cells where your modifications effect VE, no matter what tuning hardware you get.

I said it earlier, there is no free lunch in tuning custom configurations. You will still need to do some reading and get some seat time if you aren't going to just whip out a check book and let a shop bend you over the lift for an afternoon..

 

It is comparing apples to oranges...so yeah it is different. Here is what they currently offer for other cars. Some even have supporting mods configured in.

K-Series Reflash

 

Genuinely curious because I have used both.. in what sense is it apples to oranges?

And trying not to be rude, but that is a chip/card flash and not even on the same level as the AEM or other ECUs/piggybacks.. everytime you change something you have to ship it to Hondata, which is expensive and inconvenient.

Many ECUs, like the AEM, even have provisions and voltage curves for sensors like MAP/IAT/EGT/WB and wastegate solenoids etc.

 

They are different...Hondata "reflash" is not a standalone unit. The AEM unit you speak of is a fully tuneable setup.

You can call it the best of both worlds.

 

Ya sorry, I just clicked submit as you posted this lol

The problem with chip flashes is that not only are they very rigid and you have to ship it out for re-flash any time you make a change, but the Hondata calibrator has to basically guess at what tune to provide based on what you tell him and what information on those mods listed that he has at his disposal, as opposed to datalogged sensor feedback. I have had keydiver/TMO chips on other cars, and even wiring up an S-AFC is more compelling.

You could get a chip flash and then tweak it with an S-AFC, but for the cost, I would rather just something serious and end user tunable..

 

My brother was glowing the other day at the new release of the Cobb map for his 09 sti, which he just downloaded and flashed. I know they have a few more things to tinker with in the maps, and the car to get the results with, but still, I get jealous about things like that. I don't know much about Honda stuff, but I guess hondata has a similar 'flash pro' model? For the price, I think am aem is the way to go, regardless. Similar in price to a reflash.

Maybe we can get a good user tuning thread going and share results, and possibly come up with some sort of guide, or guidelines, for getting some more power on the ge8 with the aem.

 

@DSM - I totally didn't have a problem with the grammar (I'm a teacher and I see TONS of bad grammar!), but the depth of what you were talking about left many concepts/vocabulary that I'm unfamiliar with. For instance, I wouldn't even know what gear ratios are GOOD let alone what I would want in my Fit! Sounds like you have many hours of serious wrenching and applied knowledge. Good to have someone who knows things from first hand experience (as it sounds like you do) than people who have a friend, who know a guy, who dated a girl, who's brother had a ECU tune from Flibazmashnots that gained like +30hp. Keep throwing out that knowledge, I'll catch up!

@Vacca Rabite - Thanks, but the throttle controller is about the only 1/4 I really understood...did you read everything before that? That is what was impressive.