A Honda that oversteers!? Somehow, this is due to the combination of rear end weight reduction (no back seat, spare tire, seat belts, or muffler) and my tires: new 195/50/16 in front and the OEM 185/55/16 tires in back. Every time I push the fit close to its cornering limits I am greeted with about 5-10 degrees of oversteer but if I push harder, out goes the rear end like a frightening whip (which is rather hard to control (you have about 1 second to hit the gas hard and shift the weight back or countersteer)). This isn't lift off oversteer either, I mean a natural oversteer balance.

Are the stock tires just that crappy? I'm hoping when I put the 195/50/16's in the back and buy some new 205/50/16's for the front I will still be able to reproduce this. Anyone else get an oversteer balance out of the fit?

 

If you are experiencing oversteer without lift-off, your best bet is going to be getting 195's or 205's all the way around. The fit is definintely a nose-heavy vehicle and when you end up with a smaller contact patch in the rear and less weight, you are bound to experience this unless you buy some super sticky tires at the rear. (sticker than the fronts).

You can lessen the tire pressure at the rear in an attempt to increase the contact patch but I think going 195's all the way around is your best bet.

~SB

 

My GD3 is very neutral, meaning that I lose traction all the away around at the same time.. About all I know to do when it happens is to gently lift off on the throttle to shift weight to the front and then apply the throttle gently before the ass end comes around... All I had to deal with was under steer until I installed Swift Mach springs and I feel that with sticky tires things would be great... I wouldn't even know this about my car if I hadn't try to gain on JCrimson on smoothly surfaced concrete with some tight curves... It was a very long split second and quite a rush.

 

It's normal I suppose. I experienced the same oversteer doing, ehem, "stupid things" with my GD on 195/55R15 Kumho Ecsta SPTs that hadn't been worn-in yet. Stock everything on suspension.

You could always drive around it like Coyote does. Keep pressure on the throttle and the rear end should stay planted due to weight transfer. Don't lift the throttle abruptly or apply too much sudden brake pressure mid-bend - these are the "stupid things" I was referring to.

 

that's what I would suggest until you can get new tires.

 

Well, bumping for another recent experience. I've lowered the fit and thought it would resolve some of the oversteer. Which it did at low speeds (less weight transfers to the front corners). She handles alot flatter too. BUT... I was on my way to work and having fun recently. I accelerated to the off ramp from the interstate at 105mph. Acting like some sort of noob I didn't brake into the long 90 degree turn and accelerate through it. Instead I treated it like a normal high speed turn and just drove through it, no gas, no brake (which is also not the correct technique for a high speed winding turn, you still have to keep on the gas). I followed the appropriate racing line for the turn. About midway just before the apex I feel that 'floating' feeling again - the rear wheels stop communicating the road to the car. Time starts to slow down now. The rear wheels are losing traction. Rotation begins. I'm now staring at the apex. Probably about 45 degrees rotated into the turn.

Here I make my critical mistake.

I counter steer appropriately

BUT I DIDN'T HIT THE GAS

The rear end whips back around and I'm now pointing at the outside of the turn. The weight transfer to the front created by the friction of counter steering has further reduced rear traction (I guess I'm not ready for winter rally anytime soon) I'd estimate I'm still going 80 at this point.

My mind starts preparing for the accident, it's pretty much given up.

My hands still do what they've done a million times in RWD cars and counter steers again. Either through luck or instinct I countersteer hard enough to point me back at the apex again and keep me from going off the turn into a ditch. I'm at about 65 now

I countersteer a little less out of the apex on the next fishtail to make absolutely sure I don't go over the edge

One last countersteer back into the apex and I'm out of momentum. I'm at 40 mph and rear wheel traction is restored.

I do a little fist pump of victory and make it to work on time.

Oversteer in this car at very high speeds is much harder to control than I imagined. I wish I had a huge neverending parking lot to really come to understand how she reacts at high speeds.

I'm starting to recognize the floating feeling early enough that I can mash the gas to stop rotation from begining. Problem is that front wheel traction is only slightly better than rear wheel traction so accelerating can actually cause you to understeer and correct by letting off the gas... causing you to lift off oversteer. wrong wheel drive indeed. untill the snow comes anyway. Then I'll finally learn the 2 footed brake and gas dance required for snow power sliding.

What an interesting little car.

 

Sounds like the guy here last Sat. He made the right hander on the off ramp but rolled it into the deep ditch when turning into the following left hander. Couldn't tell what it was from the underside as I drove past.

 

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. Wasn't aware that simple application of opposite lock (no throttle or brake action) would already induce a forward weight transfer...but I guess the car is decelerating as you countersteer.

Some throttle would've straightened you out pronto as per conventional wisdom.

Good to know you and your GE made it out in one piece still.

 

Here's the most important part...

Lyon, What's the pressure on your F/R tires? a little less in the rear should improve traction and cut down on oversteer. Also, are they the stock tires?

~SB

 

That is exactly what I was thinking..... I rotated my tires and forgot to change the tire pressure... I was trying to follow JCrimson through some tight curves on smooth concrete instead of asphalt like I am used to and had those split second episodes that seemed to last for minutes.... Over steer is great with RWD even on a motorcycle but under steer is better than it or even neutral handling on FWD cars.

 

This is probably why stock tire pressures on my GD1 are 32 psi F/30 psi R.

Perhaps the front-heavy weight distribution's also a factor...but I digress

 

hmmm Lyon, have you had these suicidal tendencies long?
May be time to get some help?
Fits don't really do too well when they hit things, you were fortunate......this time
Such a promising career as a writer too

 

Whoa - hold on a sec. Lyon, you are still running the 195s in the front only, correct? What tire pressures?

You could have died, but knowing your character from on here somewhat, and seeing some of your videos, I at least won't get on your ass about doing it. I'll leave it at that. I can't really promote this kind of driving, but I know it happens and will continue to.

Be careful man.

 

No doubt about it not being safe. Although I will say the fit has held up very very well in all the accidents we've seen in the forum. Remember other Heavy vehicles are what makes the fit unsafe. Hitting a fixed object and you 'should' be okay under a certain speed. Regardless, I've got tires at 30 psi in front and 30 in back. Time to go get the 195s for the back. I've power slided the rear tires bald. But really, a bald 185 -in dry conditions- should have the same grip as a 195 with lots of tread. I'm going to try to relocate the battery soon. If there's room.

 

I've always had the experience that shifting the weight balance forward makes you less likely to oversteer... I was surprised, when loading my truckbed down with sand while I lived in Nebraska (necessary to keep traction with a 4x2 pickup) that the handling drastically improved.

Asking a pickup with a 2.2L engine to haul an extra 400 lbs sure killed the acceleration though!

 

Personally I was instructed that first adjusting your suspension (dampening) is better than adjusting your tire pressure.


However, I do fine tune with tire psi, I have to reduce pressure anyways at the road course as my tires get super hot once you make your first few laps.

 

Yes... Adjusting suspension is preferred as you want to get the best of all worlds. Perfectly tuned suspension, right amount of grip due to high end tires, proper tire inflation, etc... especially when autoXing. Unfortunately, that's not an option for many and running a modified tire pressure setup (as long as it's not unsafe) is a good alternative especially when you are trying to improve grip in the rear.

~SB

 

If you want to test your car, test it on a race track. Don't drag other innocent people with you because of your stupidity.

 

My tolerance for risk is quite high (I have to assume you confuse my tolerance for risk with stupidity). I understand how that could be unsettling to others with something to lose. However, if you can find a race track that the common man can afford within 100 miles of me I will commit to not pushing my automobiles to the limit on the road. BTW The private 'Autobahn' speedway right here in Joliet is NOT affordable by anyone but the unber rich.

Actually, If you'd pay the intiation fee for me I could probably squeeze in the annual dues.

Autobahn Country Club Driving Experience | Auto Country Club | Sports Car Country Club | Motorsports Country Club | Road Course Driving | Road Race Track | Street Race Track | Exotic Car Racing | Race Driving Experience | Porsche Driving Experience |


*DROOL*:



Country Club Member
Initiation Fee $35,000
Annual Dues $4,000 Please download the Member form, fill it out and send it to the address on the form. You will receive a receipt promptly in the mail. Soon afterwards you will receive a members pack including a Member Manual, an Embroidered Travel Bag, One Embroidered polo style shirt and an assortment of Autobahn stickers.


In the meantime I will continue to push my automobiles to their limits with as much due prudence as I can muster. To be clear, I am not that ricer who weaves in and out of traffic. I speed when the situation safely allows for it (safely in consideration for others that is).

 

OMG! i recently went to Joliet autobahn country club. awesome fun track! I was there for ITR expo! first time in Chicago also. that track dose not have crazy elevation changes like here in texas but pretty fun. ^_^

I have video! ITR EXPO!!!!!!!!!!

YouTube - StreetMod at ITR Expo 10

that's me in the passenger seat , type R yellow hoodie hahaah, of my buddy's miata . i did the video. I was co pilot lol. fun adventure!