If advertisements are fraudulent, the fcc would sue them, thats why mobil stopped there advertising on gasoline. I take notice of what I read,hear but if it doesn't hold up I would say so. Also msds are public record so what are shell, bp, hiding? Some other gas brands post their msds. Receipts are copy writed and each brand is different even though same type of fuel in different amounts and each has there own additives.

 

Can you find a single advertisement stating "better mpg" in an engine designed for regular fuel by using premium?

Shell limits their propaganda to: "a high-octane fuel that is designed to help improve engine performance and efficiency, especially for vehicles that recommend or require a premium gasoline."

I don't see a case of fraud. Skillful misdirection.

BP is more honest in their claims, and has a better sales angle:
"All three grades of new BP gasoline with Invigorate® have a unique formula that, with continuous use, helps clean critical engine parts and protects against deposits, corrosion and sludge formation. Results include cleaner engines that minimize exhaust emissions, experience smoother acceleration with less hesitation, and provide restored fuel economy."

and
For vehicles that can benefit from premium fuels, Amoco Ultimate® with Invigorate’s high octane helps to deliver more power

The imaginary brit girl is looking better...

 

I use 99RON which is equivalent to about 95~96 on the R+M/2 scale used in the US. I use this because that is all the base sells, but it is listed as 93 on the US scale because that is usually the highest premium you will find. They get their gas from companies within Japan, not sure which has the contract now, but when I left Okinawa 2.5 years ago, Esso won the contract from Eneos. Now I could go out in town and purchase regular and end up paying Ą125/liter or $5.77/gal or just continue using the hi-oc 99RON for $2.69/gal which the same gas out in town at this time goes for $6.37/gal. Pretty much only makes sense to buy the 99RON and save money at the same time.

 

Ads what? I got the info from the website. If that's false advertising sue them. I was commenting about the people who insist there is no difference between super and regular unleaded. More detergent then regular is a difference. Also according to my ass dyno the throttle response and acceleration is crisper and my mpg gauge says I get slightly better mpg. Slightly. So like I said $2 extra a fill up isn't much unless you're a total anal tightwad. I spend more then that crossing the narrows bridge($4 toll) and my energy drink habbit($2.50 a pop).

 

Sorry.
This is why I didn't want to open the debate.

 

Some people seem to be more into debating than accepting that others can make decisions based on their personal experiences with a product... There have been plenty of post on other threads that have been made by people that have observed the difference in ignition timing between fuel of different octane ratings and even brands of fuel.... The lesser degree of volatility of higher octane fuel allows for more ignition advance to allow the fuel to burn by the optimal 16 degrees after top dead center position of the power stroke. This allows a smoother delivery of power with less strain on the wrist pins, connecting rods, rod bearings and crankshaft journals which in my opinion is a good thing since I plan to drive my car for the duration of my life or the car's life... I suppose that to a person that isn't likely to keep their car that long it may not be as feasible to spend the extra change at the gas pump but like Silver Bullet has stated they will still have to spend extra money on maintenance, like valve adjustments, injector servicing and ignition parts within time.

 

Of course their websites are advertising.

I'm glad you've got a rational for spending more for gasoline. Have you got any references outside of gasoline company websites to support your claim. Besides your ass I mean.

 

nonsense. If you were talking about an engine that was designed for higher octane fuel (yours is modified) you might have a point.

I just came off of a 97 Honda odyssey with 225K miles. No fuel related (or any engine problems). Only recommended maintenance performed according to the owner manual schedule. And this was before higher EPA standards for reduced sulfur and increased detergents. It's still running strong 1 year later according to the new owner. Only ran regular.

 

Nonsense is comparing an engine with an 8.8 to 1 compression ratio and 66.6 HP per liter to one with 10.4 to one Compression ratio and 78 HP per liter.

 

What's the compression ratio of the Fit?

 

10.4 to 1 compression ratio.

 

Also consider an six cylinder is less stressful. Its about weight to power ratio. A four cylinder work harder and if you doubled the HP it would compare to a 3liter v6 that requiires premium.

 

My experience has thus far been similar to Texas Coyote's. After only using 87 for more than a year, I tried 93, and immediately noticed a difference. I only noticed it low in the RPM band. Basically, when launching (like turning at an intersection when you need to hurry), where on 87 the engine would hesitate just a bit until it got to 2000 RPM, on 93 it would actually take off.

I also noticed it was a little more torquey at low RPM. I like to keep my engine running at very low RPM for fuel economy. This meant that I could get my best mileage more easily. I don't think 93 octane fuel ever allowed me to improve on my personal best mileage, but it did let me stay near my best more easily. It just wasn't as hard.

Using my ScanGauge II, I was able to quantify the difference between the two, as far as the computer was concerned. It would keep a larger spark advance at RPM below 2000, which is what I think made it feel more torquey down low.

So, once I switched to 93, I never went back. I didn't care about the cost, just because I was already getting over 40 MPG on every tank, and I liked the performance.

Recently, I've been experimenting (repeat, experimenting -- do not try this unless you know what you are doing) with partial mixtures of E85, which is 104 octane. It seems I can add about 30% E85, and 70% 87 octane gasoline, and the engine runs about the same, octane-wise, as if it were on 93.

 

ahhh we're back to octane ratings.

My point was detergents in premium vs regular. Nonsense is believing the sales rhetoric that makes it seem you need premium gas to keep your engine clean. 225k on regular gas from the past 13 years didn't require heroic cleaning. None at all. The mpg continued the same as from new. I don't expect you to take my word for it, but it will help yours if you provide some sort of reference (besides the oil companies') that there is a benefit using premium gas just for it's detergents. If it bothers you, tossing a can of FI cleaner in the gas once a year would do the trick too.

Nonsense is assuming Honda doesn't know what they are doing designing engines specifying regular grade gasoline.

Once you alter that design by using forced induction, all bets are off.

 

97 odyssey is a 2.2L 4cyl. No vtec

What Honda V6 requires premium? (the answer is: none). What Honda V6 recommends using premium (answer again: none*)





*except in Pilots when towing over 3,500lbs: Required Fuel[3] Regular Unleaded
[3] [3] Maximum towing capacity for 4WD models is 4,500 lbs. Premium unleaded fuel is recommended when towing above 3,500 lbs. Maximum towing capacity for 2WD models is 3,500 lbs. Towing requires the addition of the Honda accessory towing kit, trailer harness and hitch ball. Trailer harness is standard on Touring models. Please see your Honda dealer for details.

If there's another, I'm arsed if I can find it. Of course it makes sense that the Fit, their bottom line vehicle should need premium...

 

You sure about your last statement about no Honda V6 needing premium? Have you already forgotten about the NA1 and NA2? In case you don't know chassis codes, those are the codes to the NS-X.

And I seem to remember Honda having 2 different power outputs on a couple vehicles with V6's that the premium produced more power, but the car would run perfectly fine on regular as well.

 

Also the Ridgeline is recommended by Honda to use premium when towing. That is because the ignition control operating system advances the timing to utilized the premium octane rating. Does the Fit advance the timing when using premium?

 

Yes, under certain circumstances. In my experience, it keeps more advance at low RPM and high load.

 

I heard the only reason it supposedly safe to run regular is the oil sprayed on pistons and the knock sensor. The thing they dont tell you is that oil builds up under the piston like it does on the parts and acts like a blanket to hold heat in and since the blanket dont cover the whole piston can cause hot spots that cause pre-ignition and detonation. The knock sensor also slows down over time and works slower. Any time theres pre-ignition,detonation there damage to the motor. I dont under stand how any person can say knock is ok. Fuel For Thought

A four cylinder works 25 percent harder than a 6 cylinder. The ecu adjusts the timing to control idle and the fuel is regulated through the o2 sensor and maf below 3500rpm. Over 3500rpm its based on vacuum using the MAP sensor which is speed density or volumetric efficiency maps. Premium needs to be richer to burn completely 14.4 compared to 14.7 for regular, then add 10 percent ethanol and it goes to 14.2 fuel air. Higher amount of ethanol require more fuel to burn the ecu adds more fuel for a complete burn, typical the ecu can adjust +-10 percent on the short fuel trim and an additional +-5 percent on the long fuel trim. Thats why sometimes you can throw a code and after a while it turns off. I dynoed my Fit and it ran 14.2 with premium on a wide band o2.

Good premium gas has 4-5 times the detergent and other additives than required by law. So buy a fuel with the minimum wont protect your engine. Top tier regular has about 2.5 times the minimum.
So to save money on fuel injection cleaner and run top tier regular and every 3 tank top of with premium if you want. I dont like mid grade so I left that out. I like premium gas and the extra power and mileage, so I will continue to use it.

 

There's a difference between Premium oils and "Premium" Gas. Premium oil means a higher quality of oil. Premium gas means a higher octane rating. there may be a few companies out there who also include more additives in their "premium" fuel but the majority of Premium fuel is only a higher octane rating, not a better Gas.

Bingo!

Advertisements are based on statistics which we all know are easily "fudge-able". It's why the HP ratings changed with the SAE changes. The same with the economy ratings - every company was calculating slightly different, and always to their advantage. The FCC won't step in if there are no standards really put in place.


As for increased fuel economy, at the current price of regular & Premium in our area ($2.55/$2.75), you'd have to see a 3mpg difference between regular & premium in order to break even financially. That jumps to 3.5mpg if the difference between regular & Premium is $.25. I have a lifetime average of over 38mpg on the fit and I don't "baby" the car. I enjoy hitting redline every once in a while but also do feather the gas pedal to prevent engine braking when going down hill or coming to a stop/into town in order to get the most out of the car. I'd love to see someone's stats who has 41mpg+ over the lifetime of their vehicle. (GE8) (I posted mine in the GE8 thread under 1 yr & 38mpg).

~SB